Any Interest in RallyBob Fabricated Parts?

[okieopel]

Just some suggestions:
1) Front Lower A arms.
2) Stainless steel battery tray.
3) Steering wheel adaptor. Using the original (non-removable) GT hub to grant after market steering wheel.
4) RallyBob Signature series shifter surround made from Koa wood with leather shifter boot.

[Rionart]

Bob,
How about a watts linkage for the Manta?
I've seen a few in europe...but I'd rather have someone with your eye for detail create the wee beastie....
Oh, and let me know shipping cost for the flange to Toronto so I can get some $$ on their way to you...
cheers, Rob.

[madhatterpdc]

I've been thinking about your request all weekend (actually, I've been thinking about how to respond to that question long before you ever offered). There are a billion things that would be super-nice to have available, but ultimately may or may not be profitable or prove a quick turnover. I'll just throw some ideas out there and let you and the community decide on the demand and feasibility. I also need to mention that my Opel budget for the year is pretty well spoken for, so please don't take my suggestions as a promise-to-purchase.

- Fiberglass front spring - I think a refresher course on the benefits and limitations might be appropriate.
- A run of manifolds? SSD? DSD? or even replicas of the factory EFI manifolds? I have a set of DSD's, but I have a feeling that this is not going to be my last Opel project, and it would be nice to to have a deeper well of availability.
- PnP EFI system - Includes everything but the manifold and TB's
- Electric fan kit
- Aluminum radiator
- Square to round header adapter - for being so simple, they just look too good
- Short throw shift kit
- Lightened flywheels
- I know that you mentioned that you were not interested in offering big valve heads, but why not big valve and cam kits available that a purchaser could then take to their machine shop and have the head work done.
- Offer tuning services. Being able to say "Yeah, these carbs were jetted by RallyBob on a dyno" is worth a hefty sum. A lot better than the guy at the dyno shop who will charge you an arm and a leg and you still leave with an off-idle stumble.

- Here's one that I am *very* serious about... a crank sensor to completely eliminate the distributor. This would allow an absurd amount of ignition system tuning. My impression of the Crane DIS system is that you still need to recurve the distributor. With a crank sensor and a suitable computer controller, you can dial full advance at a very precise range... of course, this would also require a knock sensor, wouldn't it? I think that I just unraveled that dream.

- On that note, the service of recurving a distributor could be offered.

- GT front shackles, those look pretty straightforward to fabricate and would probably be pretty popular, have to mention how it would react with the various lowering springs that are available.

- Quick ratio steering conversions

- Built rear-ends. I would save my pennies for a long time for a LSD, high torque ready, with shorty gear rear-end. Probably overkill for most, but if the checkbook is open...

- if not bolt in rear-ends then hardware kits that could be installed into a purchaser's rear-end

- brake upgrade packages, specs to be determined

- ARP bolt packages. I know that they have bolt packages for most of the American motors, but it would be super-pisser to order an engine bolt kit from the man that knows the size, thread and length of every bolt on an Opel off the top of his head.

[RallyBob]

Fiberglass front spring - I think a refresher course on the benefits and limitations might be appropriate.

As mentioned before, this is very doable. Just need to meet a minumum quantity order (I think six) and it's a done deal.

- A run of manifolds? SSD? DSD? or even replicas of the factory EFI manifolds? I have a set of DSD's, but I have a feeling that this is not going to be my last Opel project, and it would be nice to to have a deeper well of availability.

Not practical to have new items cast. Quantity is too great, and keeping in mind my lack of a job, no money to front the project. Not to mention, there are still plenty available (new) in Europe. They could be imported again. At one time during my Opel business days I had 4 different brands of DCOE intakes on my shelf, but no one bought any of them....

- PnP EFI system - Includes everything but the manifold and TB's

Not sure what 'PnP' means, but EFI is definitely on my 'to do' list.

- Electric fan kit

There are already tons of aftermarket kits out there that can work on an Opel. Some expensive, some quite cheap.

- Aluminum radiator

I have a fitment for the Manta/Ascona already, the GT one would have to be custom. But certainly possible.

- Square to round header adapter - for being so simple, they just look too good

Time-consuming but not difficult to make. I should have thought of them earlier on when I first thought about the flanges.

- Short throw shift kit

For a 4-speed or 5-speed? I used to make 4 speed short-throw shifters years ago. I have no cores though, car owners would have to send me theirs to modify. I only recently made a 5-speed short throw shifter, but have yet to test it. Soon I hope....

- Lightened flywheels

Hmmm, liability rears its' ugly head. That, and my local machinist passed away about three weeks ago, so I have no more local 'trusted' machinists I know who work for reasonable costs (or beer).

- I know that you mentioned that you were not interested in offering big valve heads, but why not big valve and cam kits available that a purchaser could then take to their machine shop and have the head work done.

Big valve kits are pretty easy to put together. But without any real buying power (since I'm not an established retailer), prices would be high since I have to buy the parts at retail cost, and resell them for a profit.

Cams are another issue, still have that 'no new blanks available' problem. Plus I'm really not trying to sell anything already offered by someone else (OGTS for example). Just the 'niche' items...

- Offer tuning services. Being able to say "Yeah, these carbs were jetted by RallyBob on a dyno" is worth a hefty sum. A lot better than the guy at the dyno shop who will charge you an arm and a leg and you still leave with an off-idle stumble.

If someone is local to me, I could set that scenario up. But I can't sell a jetted carb through the mail, since I'd have to have the exact same engine combo in my own car to get it right.

- Here's one that I am *very* serious about... a crank sensor to completely eliminate the distributor. This would allow an absurd amount of ignition system tuning. My impression of the Crane DIS system is that you still need to recurve the distributor. With a crank sensor and a suitable computer controller, you can dial full advance at a very precise range... of course, this would also require a knock sensor, wouldn't it? I think that I just unraveled that dream.

Knock sensor is not required, nor really desireable on a performance engine. Big cams, loose valve lash, piston slap and loud exhausts will confuse the knock sensor and dial back the timing when you don't want it to. What happens next is EGT's climb with retarded timing...then the engine starts to knock for real...then the sensor retards the timing more, which increases EGT's again...vicious circle, and the engine can literally melt down with a fully functioning knock sensor. Most tuners of factory ECU's for performance engines actually reduce the knock sensor sensitivity quite a lot.

A crank sensor is not tough to make however, and if the Megasquirt ever gets the full programmable ignition upgrade, it will all fall into place. Distributor is still needed however...have to drive that oil pump!
This is very doable.

- On that note, the service of recurving a distributor could be offered.

Duly noted. Not a tough one, assuming the distributor is in decent condition (no worn bushings).

- GT front shackles, those look pretty straightforward to fabricate and would probably be pretty popular, have to mention how it would react with the various lowering springs that are available.

Another possibility, but I again worry over liability.

- Quick ratio steering conversions

For a Manta I used to modify fast ratio Manta B guts and put them into the Manta A housings (you experienced a 2.4 turn lock-to-lock rack from a Manta B in the Turd rallycar).

For GT's there is no such beast. A suitable steering quickener (stockcar style) could be fitted inline however. I will look into the feasibility of making a bolt-on kit to fit one. If it requires hands-on fabrication I'm going to have to say it's not likely to happen.

- Built rear-ends. I would save my pennies for a long time for a LSD, high torque ready, with shorty gear rear-end. Probably overkill for most, but if the checkbook is open...

Too expensive, and parts are hard to get, even overseas. Bearings, shims, LSD, gears would set you back about $2600 for parts, plus labor to install. Plus freight. Oh, and it's still not that strong....

- if not bolt in rear-ends then hardware kits that could be installed into a purchaser's rear-end

This is more in line with what OGTS does already. They can get parts more readily than I can, and with greater buying power.

- brake upgrade packages, specs to be determined

Nope, definitely a liability waiting to happen!

- ARP bolt packages. I know that they have bolt packages for most of the American motors, but it would be super-pisser to order an engine bolt kit from the man that knows the size, thread and length of every bolt on an Opel off the top of his head.

Too many oddball sizes. I have had many bolts made by ARP in the past, and just a set of main studs, head bolts, and rod bolts cost $270 ten years ago! They quoted me $28 a piece to make rocker studs...assuming I buy 400 pieces! Opel has a lot of oddball thread sizes. I would almost bet it could cost you over $1500 to replace all the bolts in your car with ARP bolts (and I never gamble!)

But, certain select fasteners could be made again by ARP. Such as the rod bolts, the head bolts, the main studs, flywheel bolts, longer wheel studs, etc. These items I have some interest in remaking, especially because there is a high demand overseas. And quantity brings the price down to an affordable level.

Some good ideas here, thanks for the input. Hope I didn't kill too many of them off?? Just trying to be a bit more practical, I just know there's a limited market for Opel stuff.

Bob

[Francis]

Any other performance parts you currently have that your looking to sell.

Thanks
Francis

[RallyBob]

Francis, I don't have any 2.2 or 2.4 litre engines for sale, sorry. In general, I don't have performance parts for sale either (while I have a lot of parts, any parts I may have are likely for one of my own cars). Just what exactly are you looking for, perhaps I can help you find what you need.

Bob

[opelbits]

Bob-

Of all the ideas so far, the distributor recurving looks like a real winner. We have enough people hot rodding their cars (even mildly, such as myself) that someone who knows these cars (and knows what a distributor curve is) is in good demand. I could use some recurving and I'm sure others do, too. The lack of sources with Opel experience is a hindrance. With the move to electronic ignition and distributorless ignition, there are not many people around that know how to do it, much less are set up to do it.
The old technology is being forgotten. My virtually bone stock Manta (had a nice little 32/36 on it) that NEVER failed emissions failed it one year because the kid who inspected it had little to no experience with carbed cars. It never registered in his mind to wait until the choke warmed up.

How about dash-top auxiliary gauge cluster housings (ala GT350) for the GT? Dual purpose, not many places to install extra gauges and we can cover up some of the cracks in our dashes!

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by opelbits How about dash-top auxiliary gauge cluster housings (ala GT350) for the GT? Dual purpose, not many places to install extra gauges and we can cover up some of the cracks in our dashes!

Got any pics of these? I can't recall ever seeing what they look like. Are you talking about metal or fiberglass for the housing?

Bob

[bendele]

Originally Posted by RallyBob Got any pics of these? I can't recall ever seeing what they look like. Are you talking about metal or fiberglass for the housing? Bob

Actually, some fairly simple pillar pods to hold extra gauges (like boost) would
be nice. They could be vacuum formed plastic or something else simple.

As for business ideas, have you ever considered writing a opel book?
I'm not sure if the market would be large enough but I would definitely
buy one!

Chris

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by bendele Actually, some fairly simple pillar pods to hold extra gauges (like boost) would be nice. They could be vacuum formed plastic or something else simple. As for business ideas, have you ever considered writing a opel book? I'm not sure if the market would be large enough but I would definitely buy one! Chris

Simple if you have vacuum-forming equipment! Actually, I just remembered there's a business out there that will make small runs of pillar pods if you give them a prototype to make a mold from. ABS plastic IIRC....
I'll do some research into that.

Yes, many times I've considerd writing a book, to the point of having started writing one numerous times. Problem is, by the time I got to the end of it, the stuff I wrote in the beginning is already old news. And yes the market is very small for this sort of thing, so it would never get published. At best a CD version or pdf version could be made, more likely a zerox machine version...

Maybe instructional videos instead....easier to stay up to date!

Bob

[opelbits]

I had originally thought about the pillar pods. I saw a couple of problems with that placement in a GT and they all come down to the position of the pillar, itself.

The pillar is very close to your head. A pod attached to it places the pod and gauge very close to your head. This results in three things.

-The pod is in an exposed position, easily damaged or good to scrape your scalp on it. It also may obscure your vision because of it's proximity.

-The pod is moved back towards the windshield. This also may obscure vision.

-The pod being too close requires a drastic refocusing of the eyes to actually read the gauge. Gauges mounted on top of the dash place them at about the same distance away as your other gauges, no refocusing needed to read them and peripheral vision is more effective. Plus they are on the same level as your vision when driving.

The Manta/Ascona may be a different matter.
Other than that, I prefer the look of the old vinyl covered dash top gauge mounts. Very period.

[RallyBob]

Here's another idea I came up with last night. What about a 'kit' that would allow you to increase the displacement of your 1.9? Here's what I came up with:

>stroked 1.9 crank (no welding, offset-ground) 73.16 mm stroke
>longer rods (billet steel)
>forged 3.75" bore (95.25 mm) pistons, large valve reliefs to accomodate most any cam/valve combo. Could be flat-tops or small domes.
>1.5 mm compression rings for less friction, 3.0 mm oil control rings
>all parts balanced, ready to install

Net result is 2098 cc's (2.1 litre), about 9.21:1 compression with flat-tops, rod ratio of 1.935:1 (very good for rpms and low wear). All parts would be lighter than stock, and virtually indestructible. As mentioned before, a small dome could be added to get more compression (about 6 cc's would get you 10:1 compression).

I could then send out (via UPS) the prepped crank, the rods, and the pistons/pins/rings, and you could have your 1.9 block locally bored, honed, and assembled. This would be far cheaper than sending a complete shortblock via truck freight.

Thoughts?

Bob

[T-6 driver]

Uh, yeah!, How much, and If I can get this ecotec deal to work out, I'll take one

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by T-6 driver Uh, yeah!, How much, and If I can get this ecotec deal to work out, I'll take one

I'll be working on the pricing for this over the next week or so. I may even just order everything I need to build a prototype for dyno testing and evaluation. The pistons and rods are the easy part, the crankshaft prep is the only wild card. But I have a few sources I can check into.

I will be swapping the suspension soon on the 'Turd' rallycar (covered in another thread), and that car currently has a 2.0 shortblock in it...so perhaps a back-to-back dyno test with the existing 2.0 litre and then the revised 2.1 litre would be in order.

Bob

[madhatterpdc]

"PnP" means "Plug and Play". Sorry, that's just the geek in me showing through.

Don't worry about killing too many ideas, Feasibility is your deal, our deal was just to give you as many ideas as possible.

I think that you are selling yourself short with the rotating assembly kits. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a wonderful idea that I am sure would be very popular. However, I think that you would have more satisfied customers, and be able to command a higher margin with drop-in motors. I know that Dennis has a significant amount of respect for you and has an engine dyno at the shop.

I think if a dialed-in monster motor, ready to drop into the Opel of your choice from Legere Motorsports Development were offered, the response would be impressive.

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by RallyBob Here's another idea I came up with last night. What about a 'kit' that would allow you to increase the displacement of your 1.9? Thoughts? Bob

Good idea. It occurs to me that your speciality could be assembling and selling "kits" of the required parts, with some specific machining done by you or yours, that would allow various levels of performance (say "Stage I or Stage II") to be added to Opel engines and suspensions. They would come with the basic required parts, and instructions, illustrations and specifications (the RallyBob advantage) to allow proper final machining and assembly.

For example, in the engine upgrade described above, Stage I would use aftermarket rods and pistons from some other make (Neon, Honda or Ford rods, SBC 305 pistons) machined to purpose. They could be high quality, but the input cost would be less than custom machined pieces, and buying in "bulk" (pistons and such come typically in sets of 8) would further reduce the input costs. Stage II would be higher quality and higher performance rods and pistons. The kit cost could vary according to how HiPo the owner wanted (less for hyper-eutectic pistons, more for forged; more for lightened rods, less for off-the shelf; less for standard rings, more for thinner, gap-less rings; and so forth)
Maybe the "kit" could just include the pistons, pins, rings and rods and the rod bearings (or at least use rods that have rod bearings readily available), and the crank could be off-set ground locally (the kit would provide detailed specs and directions) and underground as required for main journal wear. Crank off-set grinding (if done to a "spec") is probably within the capacity of most competent machine shops, while "stroking" (welding and re-grinding) is NOT (John Warga has been waiting 6 months for his 2.4 crank). Most folks already have a crank, so this would save the crank shipping back and forth (and make use of existing cranks). Balancing would also have to be done locally, but then it could be done with the flywheel and clutch assembly.

So that would constitute a "block" kit. Then, you provide upgraded (by level of HiPo) "valve kit" options (2.0 valves, SBC valves, or Ti valves) with accompanying inserts, springs, retainers and keepers, with machining done locally, again to the RallyBob spec (which could instructions on various levels of porting, un-shrouding, etc.).

Then intake kit options such as a Legere Torquer Intake for either DGV or DGAS, or EFI options. These are small enough items to ship that intakes could be exchanged on a "core" basis.

Then suspensions. Adjustable panhard rods. Heim jointed sway bars. Reinforced control arms. Fiberglass transverse leafs and shackle kits. and more.

Just a thought...

[nobody]

Way back when I first started doing the high perf 1.9s I liked the upgrades you could get off the shelf from Smitty and then Bob. I ordered alot then since it was a package like the big spring kit with the titanium retainers. Very nice setup by the way and I'd go there in a heartbeat. I like OGTS for the availability of the stock parts that are required to keep it running. I buy From unlimited since he has alot of items that are a bit hard to get. When I got back into the Opels after a few years off I found that C&R was not around for the high perf stuff. It's been a pain to piece meal some things together that used to be a mail order item. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I miss C&R for the reasons I've stated. I for one would like to see it revived under any name and pull out an old catalog and look to see what you might want to add or delete from it. I'd hope that Gary would help with the launch of a business catering to the speed freaks in the crowd as there seem to be a few. Me personally I have the check book open and waiting for some prices and details.

[Francis]

Hey Bob,

BUT really kool would be to manufacture a heavy duty 16V conversion kit manufactured here in the US by the best at a reasonable price. And also offer a weld-in chassis stiffening support package.

I like the idea of the staged opel packages I, II, III - engine and suspension. I also find the recent post on the Megasquirt systems super interesting.

Building crated opel engines, say stage I, II and III (bottom end) with a client defined top end or fuel system, that might be interesting.

Or maybe a front suspension that will rid the Opel GT of understeer. I've heard of a rally guy in europe who says this is fairly easy but I'm still waiting on his response of how this is done. Widening the front track and Shortening the rear axle track? How effective would this be? How about a fresh packaged double unequal length a-arm with coil overs? Once the geometry is figured out and it's jigged up, with after market spindles, coil-overs, and brakes could be used it seems like it could be possible with stiffening up the front with a brace bar and some fabrication.

I think if you start up the madness with manufacturing and building opel systems, parts, engines again, and with the communication and greater involvement of the opel community(thanks you opelgt.com), maybe we can enjoy our cars a bit more and start putting the opels on the map here in the states.

I also posted the question below as a separate post:

1) Oh and a question for you[RALLY BOB] or anyone who might know ... what are the differences between the manta 400 phase I, II, III rear axles between themselves and then between the standard manta axles?

2) Also does phase I, II, III refer to the years or the level of modification?

3) Also how difficult would it be to adapt one of these rear ends to the Opel GT if you planned on the disc brake conversion (I'm pretty sure all the manta 400 rears have discs)?

4) I found someone who has one in europe and I'm waiting on a price. Any idea on how much they cost before I get surprised?

5) And, which of the manta 400 axles would be easiest to modify for the GT?

6) Do all the 400 rear axles have 75% locking big plate zf differential?

7) Any idea on the dimensions and pertinent locating points?

8) Do the manta 400 rear axles handle more power than the standard manta/gt rear? if so, how much can they handle?

9)how much more power can a opel gt rear end handle if a Quaife rear diff is used?

I know that's a bunch of questions but hopefully the knowledge bank will have some answers.

Take care and thanks guys,

Francis

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by madhatterpdc I think if a dialed-in monster motor, ready to drop into the Opel of your choice from Legere Motorsports Development were offered, the response would be impressive.

This idea reminds me of a fellow who has made a tidy living here in Calgary by providing performance enhancements for Lexus's (Lexi?) and Toyota Supra's, Reg Reimer of Reimer Consulting Technical Services, aka RCTS, http://www.monsterhorsepower.com/ . And a few other models, but that is his mainstay. He "tuned" my is300 for the sales manager at the Lexus dealer, who wanted a demo to show what could be done to these cars. When I bought it, I also had him install a set of TTE (Toyota Team Europe, www.TTE.de) performance springs. One of his specialities has been to install turbo and supercharger kits in is300's and Supra's. Neither of which have a large market penetration. But he knows his cars and customers well, and provides what they want. Some of it is ricer-type stuff, but he does quite well on the more extensive performance mods. I ran my is300 on the same track as his twin-turbo is300 this summer, and it was pretty awesome. He has also done an is430 (the Lexus V8 in place of the VVTi twin cam six) and a few other pretty neat cars.

Anyway, I digress, but here is my point. Reg and Bob aren't too dissimilar. Reg has had a love affair with a particular model (his is the Supra), and he wanted to build a life around it, and he has. Admittedly, the customer base for Lexi and Supra's are more extensive (and better heeled) than the Opel crowd, but the Calgary market is way smaller than the Internet-based Opel crowd. So maybe it evens out. Think of it. Would you rather own any old Opel, or one prepared by Legere Motorsport?

JM2CW

[N61WP]

Bob,

your engine kit idea sounds great....but a question,

Why, if your building a stoker crank, different rods and pistons, not take it out to the 2.4? Seems like more bang for the same buck.

Glad to hear you are thinking about getting back into it... even if not all the way....we (the community) really need you, especially since TGSI Bob doesn't seem to be involved here anymore.

James

[RallyBob]

BUT really kool would be to manufacture a heavy duty 16V conversion kit manufactured here in the US by the best at a reasonable price. And also offer a weld-in chassis stiffening support package.

Do you mean for a European Opel 16V engine? Or another non-Opel transplant?

Building crated opel engines, say stage I, II and III (bottom end) with a client defined top end or fuel system, that might be interesting.

I want to stay away from building complete engines. Dealing with cores, shipping issues, finding other 'good' parts such as timing covers and uncracked heads...is quite a nuisance, and difficult at best.

Or maybe a front suspension that will rid the Opel GT of understeer. I've heard of a rally guy in europe who says this is fairly easy but I'm still waiting on his response of how this is done. Widening the front track and Shortening the rear axle track? How effective would this be?

It works quite well, I've done this for years. I usually leave the rear axle width alone and just widen the front suspension track with spacers.

How about a fresh packaged double unequal length a-arm with coil overs? Once the geometry is figured out and it's jigged up, with after market spindles, coil-overs, and brakes could be used it seems like it could be possible with stiffening up the front with a brace bar and some fabrication.

I think though that this would be very expensive to do. It would need to be designed first, a prototype built, and thoroughly tested (I always tested my parts, for example the first set of roller rocker arms from 1992 were on two different race cars for 4 months before a set ever saw a street car...which ended up being my own car which covered 48,000 miles in two years with the roller rockers.) Once the testing was complete and changes made, jigs could be built and production suspensions made. But I can't see a 'from scratch' design being built for much less than $2k. So the market is again very small for this sort of thing.....maybe 1/2 dozen people would be legitimately interested.

Bob

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by N61WP Why, if your building a stoker crank, different rods and pistons, not take it out to the 2.4? Seems like more bang for the same buck.

Because the 2.1 litre can be built without having the crankshaft welded. The 2.4 requires welding, and in the long run you still have stock rods and stock 305 pistons, with a pretty lousy 1.55:1 rod ratio (compared to 1.833:1 stock and 1.935:1 for the 2.1)

The 2.1 could take anything you could dish out due to the better parts, and is probably a better engine overall. The 2.4 was something I just 'wanted to try', I never really expected anyone else to want to build one.

Also, if you put billet rods, forged pistons, and a welded/offset ground 2.4 crank together, it would definitely cost a bit more to build than the 2.1. I also suspect the 2.1 won't require any block grinding to deal with clearance issues.

On the other hand, if you already have a 2.2 crank and block, you could easily prep a package to take that engine out to 2403 cc's although the rod ratio wouldn't be quite as high (about 1.75:1).

Bob

[Francis]

Hey Bob,

Thanks for the reply ... I'm talking about the 16V Opel motors that people are putting into the GT and other earlier opels.

I heard allegations that there is a company that has this conversion kit in europe but it's expensive and not very stable or suitable because the chassis needs welded-in support and that it isn't really a complete kit - something to that effect and it's expensive ...

Francis

[RallyBob]

Well, if you want to buy me a 2.0 16V engine I'll engineer a kit to install it into a GT.....

Again, I think this is a very limited market item. It would make more sense to me to figure out how to put a 2.2 Ecotec into a GT....at least those are readily available in the US, all aluminum, and have some tech support over here in the US. We'll see....

Bob

[Francis]

Bob,

Ok here's another on the wish list. A complete turbocharger and or supercharger kit complete for the GT would be great - even if hood modification/heater box modification is necessary.

What to you think?

Francis

P.S. I was just putting Legere Motorsports on my wish list and then thought that if Bob started this he might not have as much time for our questions and him imparting his knowlege - oh no! Should we reconsider?