oil pump cover

[nobody]

How many of you want a oil pump cover that doesn't have a faulty valve and is a flat type?


they run around 60 pounds pressure and are sweet.

[nobody]

I can already tell this needs some explaining. In the late 60s the CIH motors came with only one oil relief and that was after the motor was lubed. Later years they added another relief prior to the motor getting oil. Ok so now if the first relief goes then so does your motor. I can't find an early style, and I get asked for them all the time for the reasons I mentioned.

[Tru-Craft]

More and consistent oil pressure is always a good thing! Do you have any pictures of the stock cover? Can't see mine on the car easily.
This will be a bolt on replacement?
Sounds good to me!
Lyle

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by nobody I can already tell this needs some explaining. In the late 60s the CIH motors came with only one oil relief and that was after the motor was lubed. Later years they added another relief prior to the motor getting oil. Ok so now if the first relief goes then so does your motor. I can't find an early style, and I get asked for them all the time for the reasons I mentioned.

True, but a little further clarification is needed perhaps. Early CIH engines had a flat pump cover w/o relief valve (OP regulator) and the OP relief is located in the timing cover next to the timing chain tensioner, as in my '69 Kadett. Later CIH engines used the same or newer '12-bolt head' timing cover but blocked off the OP relief in it with a very heavy spring behind the ball (never unseats, no OP regulation in timing cover) and moved the relief valve (OP regulator) to the pump cover.

Early timing cover OP regulators (relief valves) use a spring and steel ball to regulate oil pressure. Later pump cover OP regulators use spring and a round-nosed, bullet shaped plastic piston to regulate oil pressure. This plastic piece is much more prone to surface deterioration over time than the early steel ball, with resulting lower oil pressures. Other than the wear characteristics of the different materials used in the check valves, the operation of both regulator types is the same.

Even though the early steel ball regulator valve is not prone to surface wear like the later plastic bullet shaped one, it can exhibit the same low oil pressure problems. Any small piece of dirt that becomes lodged between the seat and steel ball in the timing cover will cause this . . . ask me how I know this.

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by tekenaar . . . ask me how I know this.

How do you know this?????

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U How do you know this?????

Last year, on the way from the Carlisle hotel to the meet on Saturday morning with Gil in my Kadett, the oil pressure suddenly dropped significantly just as we arrived at the fair grounds. Revving the engine to higher RPMs raised it somewhat, but at idle the pressure dropped to just above zero and the OP idiot light was on.

Quick diagnosis indicated checking the OP regulator in the timing cover first. Removed large regulator nut and pulled out spring . . . steel ball would not come out. Looked for telescoping magnet to try removing the ball. Rob (Rionart) saved the day by getting one from one of the many 'trading table' sellers there and I was finally able to get the steel ball out.

Stuck to the surface of the ball was a tiny metal fragment that looked like a small piece of metal threading that had broken off somewhere. Removed it, reassembled OP regulator and fired engine. Everything was back to normal as before . . . certainly a bit of luck on my part, being ~1500 miles from home!

[GTJIM]

Are you talking a new Oil Pump cover here, Dave, with a steel ball 'tadploe' in it for the pressure relief valve? Maybe CNC machined from ali plate or a bit of cast iron??
I have both the replacement alloy standard item and a cast iron "Diesel-motor" replacement Opel type here. Will get some pics of them.

Note that the OP relief valve discharges back into the intake side of the pump so that if it does leak at least oil is fed back to the pump so there is a wee bit of oil to circulate to the crankshaft bearings!

[nobody]

What I'm talking about is the rare one with no relief they used in the CIH 1.9s . perfectly flat. It means more oil pressure, one less possible problem and constant oil to the motor since it only uses the upper relief in the timing cover after the motor is fed oil. They have become rare as hens teeth. I've used them in the past with great results and was looking for a production run of them. All it has is the cut for the oil pump gear and the 6 mounting holes and no relief in it. They are a life saver for a 1.9 and can't be purchased anywhere right now. I'm in for 19 of them with logos, so it looks like a good production run so far.

[jeff denton]

I use the old style one, I had my choice and did the research and chose to have the relief valve anywhere but on the pump!
I think it's a great idea to make some, they are really simple!
I wonder if they should be made out of steel though.
Right now might be a good time to point out the difference in the gaskets required, there is a thick one and a thin one. It's my understanding you want the thin one, always. The thick one causes lower oil pressure? No thanks.

[GTJIM]

Making a flat plate will be much simpler - though I do wonder why Opel bothered to put the relief valve on the cover for later motors. Thank Goodness they left the old relief valve in the front cover! Though I guess the correct strength of spring needs to be substituted for the extra strong one they put in there for the later motors to ensure that the oil pressure does not get too high. Opel is a bit like the Buick/Rover V8s in that the oiling system runs on volume rather than pressure. I know Buick/Rover have horrible probems with the oil pump/distributor drive when oil pressures are increased significantly. Also the Late Great "Smokey" Yunick makes mention of too high oil pressure simply scouring out the con rod bearing metal by the oil hole in the crank if pressure goes above 75 to 80 PSI. I would think that 60 PSI would be a practical maximum for the Opel motor.
Oh! A nice "Blitz" logo on the outside of the new plate sounds a nice touch.

[lewdawg]

"They have become rare as hens teeth." Dave another great idea. I would like to get my paws on one of these. By the way...Just how rare are hens teeth and are they more rare than roosters teeth?

[nobody]

I have 2 thin gaskets in transit and close to 30 K in software to Lyle that shipped 2 days ago. I have a prototype to copy off in a padded mailer now, so ya this looks like a hapening deal.

[Willy_g77]

I had low oil pressure, so Gil told me to change my oil and use 20w 50 oil... i did, and oil pressure increased a bit.so this would be the cover like Opelgtsource sells? but better? and it would increase the oil pressure to proper levels?

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by Willy_g77 I had low oil pressure, so Gil told me to change my oil and use 20w 50 oil... i did, and oil pressure increased a bit.so this would be the cover like Opelgtsource sells? but better? and it would increase the oil pressure to proper levels?

Billy - No way to boost oil pressure if it all runs out through loose (worn) cam and crank bearings. The thicker 20W-50 oil is just a bit harder to "push" through the gaps so pressure builds a wee bit. There is just no "magic" cure for a worn motor......gotta rebuild them.

A new pump plate only fixes a worn pump plate and not anything else! May get a slight increase in oil pressure due to a bit more oil volume being pumped.

[jeff denton]

Looks like we better talk about the condition of the entire oil pump, well the condition of the entire oiling system, especially main and rod bearings. I wouldn't look at the oil pump cover as the cure to low oil pressure, but more like (what I determined) a better way to control oil pressure under certain conditions, and what happens when conditions cause the relief valve to open.
When studying the oil system (having both covers in hand) I decided I wanted the flat one.
What I'm saying is, if your cover is worn out it is part of your low pressure problem and a new cover probably will help and I would choose the flat one over the later one. Here the reality may be the pump is worn out.
If your entire pump is worn out the new cover may help but you still should have a new pump, actually the entire front housing.
If your bearings are loose you'll have low oil pressure and again the new cover may help if the old one was worn but you still have loose bearings...
What I really want to see is a way to rebuild the oil pump in the old housing.
Inventing this and marketing it for 2/3 the price of the front cover/oil pump assembly would make someone a hero. Not a very wealthy hero, though...
How about an electric pump?

[GTJIM]

Opel used to have +.004" oversized gears - don't know if it was to "tighten" oil pumps or because some pumps were slightly oversize from factory machining .........

[soybean]

Ok, has anyone tried the Risse Motorsport High Volume Oil Pump, listed in the parts section? and if so, how much increase does it give? Jarrell

[nobody]

Try this, go look in a 69, 70, 71 FSM or a Chiltons or Clymer manual and you will see exactly what I'm talking about. Bump your oil pressure and motor saftey up and loose one more thing that could cause problems all at one time. I'm going to bump to 20 of them so now it's like 35 total.

[Gary]

Originally Posted by soybean Ok, has anyone tried the Risse Motorsport High Volume Oil Pump, listed in the parts section? and if so, how much increase does it give? Jarrell

I have one that I put in the Senator's 3.0 for a bit. Didn't increase the pressure much, it's more for high performance applications where you need more volume. Ended up pulling it as it was sitting too close to the Senny's sway bar

As was mentioned before, one key for good oil pressure is to make sure the pump gears end play is in spec by using a cover plate that is smooth and flat and using the proper thickness gasket to get into that spec. The "later" CIH's (~1980 up?) used anaerobic sealer instead of a gasket.

One thing that will be needed in the future will be a way to "rebuild" the pump housing bore in the front cover. Either by an insert or a ceramic coating as RallyBob has done.

Steel gears against an aluminum housing.. Any material that gets sucked into the pump will gouge the housing and decrease the pumps efficiency. So if you are redoing an engine make sure your pump housing walls are smooth.

[nobody]

In at least 68, 69, 70 and 7i they were stock and how does a cover that's Has no rise to it and is flatter than the later ones create a clearance issue? I'm pretty sure we aren't talking about the same cover. Pull out any of the manuals mentioned and have a look see.

[ddoyle]

In one of OTTO's posts: " Later CIH engines used the same or newer '12-bolt head' timing cover but blocked off the OP relief in it with a very heavy spring behind the ball (never unseats, no OP regulation in timing cover) and moved the relief valve (OP regulator) to the pump cover."

My question is, if you replace your relief valve cover with the flat cover, still using the same front cover wouldn't you need to change the very heavy spring to still have OP regulation. If you just change the plate wouldnt that leave you with no relief valve?

DAN

[asdasc]

I think the pressure is just tied to RPM and that the relief valve is only a backup in case the filter gets plugged, right?

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by ddoyle My question is, if you replace your relief valve cover with the flat cover, still using the same front cover wouldn't you need to change the very heavy spring to still have OP regulation. If you just change the plate wouldnt that leave you with no relief valve?

Yes, you must change the heavy spring in the side of the timing cover for a 'normal' regulating spring. Otherwise pressure will be high enough to balloon oil filters, and blow the gasket right out of it! (150+ psi)

[Tru-Craft]

Steve I agree, the ball should not come off its seat under normal conditions.
But I know it does bounce, because of the wear marks on the ball, and if the spring is weak it could be a problem.
Also if you have a plastic plunger, oil and age does damage it.
I have had the plunger get something under it and I suddenly lost partial oil pump pressure, not good! I thought I spun a bearing or something!
I have read that too much oil pressure is not good either.
OK race/hot street people, at max output say 7,500 RPM what kind of oil pressure is the stock slightly worn pump capable of putting out????
Lyle

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by RallyBob Yes, you must change the heavy spring in the side of the timing cover for a 'normal' regulating spring. Otherwise pressure will be high enough to balloon oil filters, and blow the gasket right out of it! (150+ psi)

Can you use the one that is in the old OP regulator?