cage/roll bar help

[gtkid2]

I'm setting up my gt for auto-x racing... I was thinking of building a simple 4 point roll bar. a U shape would fit the width of the car behind the seats, in line with the pillars, with two bars going forward in front of the doors down to the kick-panel area. I would have some reinforcement bars, but does this sound well enough? what thickness of tubes should I use? thanks

[Paul]

Since you are doing this for Auto-X you must follow the guide lines set forth by SCCA. They specify a min tube diameter and wall thickness as well as how and where its attached to the body. So, I'd find a rule book and start reading. SCCA Sports Car Club of America.

[MantAscona]

Rallybob had a few four point GT bars for sale. Perhaps he still has one left and it would save you a lot of time and effort.

Duane

[gtkid2]

I've been looking at the scca rules and I can't find any specifications on bar thickness. It does say that for the street class it isn't required, but if it's a roll bar then it needs to be atleast 4 point, doesn't have to be to the roof of the car, but must be 2inches from the top of the drivers helmet. This info was on the forums on scca, is it all true? why are their rules to unclear?

[Paul]

Look in the GCR. I believe the wall thickness is 0.095" and 1.75" OD????

Anyway the GCR shoud tell all. I personally wouldn't run a Roll bar in a Stock Class. Why pay the weight penalty without any gain. So start in Street Prepared. At least you can offset the weight gain of the bar with reductions in other areas such as seats. Also, you get to play with springs, wheel widths, offsets, rear sway bar size, and better tires....

[gtkid2]

I found all the specs... but scca sux I want to drive my opel in an auto-x event, but it's also my summer day car, and honestly I don't see why the rules have to be so strict. isn't there just like a simple class to run in?

[baz]

Originally Posted by gtkid2 I found all the specs... but scca sux I want to drive my opel in an auto-x event, but it's also my summer day car, and honestly I don't see why the rules have to be so strict. isn't there just like a simple class to run in?

life or the afterlife that is the question

whether it is better to live or die

[opelwasp]

Originally Posted by gtkid2 I found all the specs... but scca sux I want to drive my opel in an auto-x event, but it's also my summer day car, and honestly I don't see why the rules have to be so strict. isn't there just like a simple class to run in?

Yes many racers agree with you. That is whay many race in NASA instead of SCCA. SCCA is now basically just a Corvette/Miata race club. NASA is nice because the way the rules are set up you can "Run what ya brung". Ant that is what amateur racing is all about.

[gtkid2]

yes, the "before" life is much nicer

but I'm going to have a well-built roll bar, I just can't afford all this fancy scca stuff...and I do all my own work, so some of the rules are out of my grasp.

thanks all for the replies, I'm going to look at nasa and the local UNOH college auto-x events. I just wanna do some performance driving, but I prefer staying legal... if ya know what I mean

[Itsa '70 GT]

Originally Posted by gtkid2 yes, the "before" life is much nicer but I'm going to have a well-built roll bar, I just can't afford all this fancy scca stuff...and I do all my own work, so some of the rules are out of my grasp. thanks all for the replies, I'm going to look at nasa and the local UNOH college auto-x events. I just wanna do some performance driving, but I prefer staying legal... if ya know what I mean

I don't mean to get too preachy here, but what kind of price do you put on your head/life should you go over on your lid? If there's even a REMOTE chance of doing damage to yourself, it's definitely worth the couple hundred bucks of steel for a four, or six point bar/cage that will meet ANY sanctioning body's rules. Remember, it's still racing and without trying to sound too discouraging, there's always that chance.

Even though I realize you're going to be racing in a different arena, but the NHRA rules I have to live with are pretty simple. If you're doing just a roll bar, then the min. tube thickness for mild steel is .118 and diameter is 1 3/4". For a cage the min. thickness is the same, but the diameter goes to 1 5/8".

Sorry to seem negative here, but I've seen even the most innocent of racers go over and get hurt. Safety has got to be the first and foremost consideration, no matter what class you race in. We want to keep all the racers around here that we can!

All the best for you and your race car project.

Bill B.

[gtkid2]

it's good, I like the preaching

I've looked at nasa and they fit me much better. I'll do everything to make my car safe, I just can't do some of the strait pipe bends and the little things they want, which could cause my car to not pass inspection. thanks for caring though I'm not in it for the competition, I just want to go around some cones

[Itsa '70 GT]

Jeg's has kits for the Opel GT: 4 pts. are about $130 and 8 pts. are probably around $160. The sweet thing about them is that the hoop, (and halo if you need one of those), is already pre-bent for the Opel GT and they give you re-inforcing plates for the floor, to go along with the side and support bars. Just fit them into your car and you're on your way without the extra frustration of fabbing EVERYTHING yourself. They will work and will help to keep a stock appearing application to your car. Hope this helps...

Bill B.

[Itsa '70 GT]

Just another tidbit and then I'll shut up.

So that you don't feel alone in dealing with sanctioning bodies and your roll bar issue...I got hamstrung by NHRA because the rear bracing from the top of my hoop, down to the frame was not at a minimun of 30 degrees; It was at 28.5 degrees , built according to the chassis manufacturer's spec's....It is now 32.5 degrees...

Bill B.

[gtkid2]

wow, that's some bad luck

[Paul]

Nothing is worse than false security. A roll bar/cage built to sub-standards is worse than no bar/cage. Even NASA has rules that you must follow, its for your own saftey.... I'd bet NASA has the same min OD and wall thickness specs. as SCCA. If you want to Auto-x you don't need a roll cage, but SCCA says IF you put one in your car than it must meet the Road Race standards, I see no problems with this aspect of the rules.

And, yes SCCA does have an uncomplicated class to run in... its called STOCK. However, don't expect to be competitive. In Auto-X, SCCA, NASA, or whoever, its not really about you against others, but you against yourself. Its really about making the driver better... after all its the driver that is the limiting factor to any car... not the car itself.

If you want a to build your car so you can also do many different types of events other than Auto-X, like high performance driving schools (HPDE), BMWCCA events (road course events), track days, SCCA or NASA road course events, then you should read everyones rule books first. It would be a shame to go to all the trouble to build up your car only to not pass safety tech and not get to run... I've seen it happen more than once...

I wish you all the best, I personally know its a challenge to get started on this type of project. It's even tougher to build a daily driver that doubles as a track car. Tough to do...

[itb gt]

The tubing size should be 1.5x.095 .As long as its DOM mild steel.Yes SCCA is a pain but its for our own good.Kirk has a part that would work for you. If you need pics or more info you can pm me. Jim