Building a racecar

[N61WP]

I’ve been having this dilemma for the last few years with my GT. I love old sports cars, especially ones that you don’t see everyday. I love to work on them, to modify them and to drive them. I love to autoX, but I love the track days or DE’s even more. I think I really want to go to the next level and do some real wheel to wheel racing before I get too old. We have a track 100 miles away that has a “drive what you bring” series…..bracket racing for road racing, great concept. Lot’s of fun to see Miatas out with Corvettes, etc.

Over the last few years I have modified my GT almost to the point where it’s not too streetable. I am about to cross that line. Up to this point I have made many mechanical mods but haven’t cut anything. The original interior is still all there. I have reached the point where I need to decide whether to start butchering this car or get something else to race. My next step will (might) be to gut the interior, add a full cage, seats and harnesses. I would also cut out the heater box and use my dual 45 setup instead of the single. I would probably remove the stock dash and just build a panel. The heavy glass would probably go too. Many other mods are in my head and none of them make for a comfortable street car.

The shame in this is that this is a solid 69,000 mile1970 car. It has no rust, other then the usual hole under where the battery used to live. It even has the original paint…worn, but still shiny. The body has 36 years of dings and dents but none of them major. Other then the AM radio being unhooked, everything works on this car. I also have $14K in receipts for the work I have done over the last few years, and still never touched the body work. Almost $6K just building this engine. Stuff adds up.

It would have been perfect if I could have bought Stan’s car. I thought long and hard about it. What a bargain! I could have dropped my engine in it and put my original engine back into my GT and sold it. I just couldn’t swing housing two cars. It would take years and mega $$ to build a car of Stan's caliber. I congratulate who ever got it.

Why am I rambling? I don’t really know. Maybe I just need someone to slap me out of this before it’s too late…or to egg me on.
Opinions?

James

[opelbits]

It would be a shame to permanently alter a good car. The problem with racecars is, once you've modified a street car to the point that the next step takes you into racecar-land, you just start the cycle all over. There is no such thing as a 'slightly racecar'. There will always be 'something else' that you'll want to do to it to get a little further into 'racecar-land'.
I'm not saying it's wrong, or a bad thing. But why spend all that money on the street car, only to slowly tear it all out to make it a racecar? To me it makes more sense to find a decent shell and start a racecar from scratch. Then you'll still have the street car and everything you've done to it ready to drive at any time. If you get frustrated or sidetracked with the race car project, a quick drive in the street car might be needed to remind you of why you are doing it.

I like to hassle some of the guys in the RX7 club about their 'racing' habits. They want to go fast, so they buy the fastest RX7, the 3rd generation twin turbo. It's alos very expensive. A decent untouched original needing turbo rebuilds can set you back about 10-15K. So they buy them and since they want more power, it makes sense to swap the tired twins for a much more powerful single turbo. Add another 3-5K. Then they have to tune it. Or get a standalone like the Haltech or Wolf. 1-2K. Then tune. But, it's still not really fast enough. So it's time to work on the motor (provided they haven't popped it already). Full rebuild, heavy streetporting or bridgeporting the intake, and all the good ceramic racing seals and such. 5-6K.
And it's still not fast enough.
Why?
Because some guy (oooh, say like my friend Mike) went and bought a $500 1st generation RX7, dropped in a streetported 88 turbo motor with a nice big custom turbo, a full cage, and Haltech. For what the other guys paid just for their car, he can run faster than they can after they spend nearly as much, if not more than the purchase price for the aftermarket stuff.

Then of course, there is the fact that since it is drag racing they do, to go faster you have to spend more money. But the faster you go, the less time you spend racing since the whole point is to cover that same distance even quicker. The more you spend, the less you get to race!

[opelwasp]

My dad has a GT4 race car he is willing to sell minus the engine. PM me if you are interested. It has won at Sears Point and Leguna Seca.

[davegt27]

you want to spend some money--- build a race car





good luck
davegt27

[jtodd]

Unless you like to spend a lot of money, don't build your own race car. Buy one someone else spent all the time and money, and get it for a fraction of what was put in it. Just ask Stan C. He was offering a Tube Frame roller for probably 20% of what he had in it.

[Itsa '70 GT]

Originally Posted by N61WP I’ve been having this dilemma for the last few years with my GT. I love old sports cars, especially ones that you don’t see everyday. I love to work on them, to modify them and to drive them. I love to autoX, but I love the track days or DE’s even more. I think I really want to go to the next level and do some real wheel to wheel racing before I get too old. We have a track 100 miles away that has a “drive what you bring” series…..bracket racing for road racing, great concept. Lot’s of fun to see Miatas out with Corvettes, etc. Over the last few years I have modified my GT almost to the point where it’s not too streetable. I am about to cross that line. Up to this point I have made many mechanical mods but haven’t cut anything. The original interior is still all there. I have reached the point where I need to decide whether to start butchering this car or get something else to race. My next step will (might) be to gut the interior, add a full cage, seats and harnesses. I would also cut out the heater box and use my dual 45 setup instead of the single. I would probably remove the stock dash and just build a panel. The heavy glass would probably go too. Many other mods are in my head and none of them make for a comfortable street car. The shame in this is that this is a solid 69,000 mile1970 car. It has no rust, other then the usual hole under where the battery used to live. It even has the original paint…worn, but still shiny. The body has 36 years of dings and dents but none of them major. Other then the AM radio being unhooked, everything works on this car. I also have $14K in receipts for the work I have done over the last few years, and still never touched the body work. Almost $6K just building this engine. Stuff adds up. It would have been perfect if I could have bought Stan’s car. I thought long and hard about it. What a bargain! I could have dropped my engine in it and put my original engine back into my GT and sold it. I just couldn’t swing housing two cars. It would take years and mega $$ to build a car of Stan's caliber. I congratulate who ever got it. Why am I rambling? I don’t really know. Maybe I just need someone to slap me out of this before it’s too late…or to egg me on. Opinions? James

As one who is building a race car, to one considering it, don't do it with this car. This car is in just too good of shape, and considering how few there really are out there, it would be a shame (to use your own words) to do this to this car you own. In my case, I have taken a car that was destined for the scapper and am making it a race car; I didn't convert a nicer, still original, drivable unit. A word of advice: DO be prepared for some work and cash outlay if you are going to build ANY Opel GT racer! I'm doing my best to low-buck mine and I know what resources that I have put into the car, I'll never realize again. However, I'm building something that I've wanted for a very long time and don't have plans of getting rid of it; I am building it to use it! Sorry for the sermon, (just an occupational hazard I guess!), but I do wish you well in your project and assure you that if you need info, between Jeff Denton and all of us "other" racers here at the site, we'll help you all we can.

Best Regards,

Bill

[petrieopel]

I believe it's possible to make a race car that is streetable. It's what I tried to do with mine. I found a GT for $400 that had no rust but the engine was toast. I stripped everything out and had the complete car sandblasted and started from there. 10 years later I'm just about done. It can be done faster but my finances kept me from finishing it sooner. The engine in it now is pretty stock so it drives fine on the street. Later I plan on putting a race engine in it and then it will be less streetable. If I was to do it all over again, I would. It's been fun. You could buy someone elses race car but I trully enjoyed building my own. I would recommend it to anyone.

[N61WP]

As Dave and others have said, race cars cost money....money that you will never recoup, right? So does that mean the $14k I have put into this "street" GT is recoupable? I have seen many nicer GT's then mine sell for a fraction of $14,000. What if I spend another $6,000 for body work and paint? What are they worth? Define worth? I guess something is worth whatever someone's willing to pay. Just look at the madness of the Barrett-Jackson auctions lately. I'd be willing to bet that I couldn't sell mine for what I spent just building this engine. So does taking another GT out of the pool left actually help everyone else's value? Let me say again that I have always loved and owned old sports cars...I didn't buy this GT as an investment. I bought it because I always wanted one as a teenager, when they were everywhere. The best I have ever done with any of my old car projects was to break even.

Trent, your site has also spurred some of my ideas lately. I really like building my own stuff too. I guess in reality I am only slightly behind you, having built the engine and suspension first where you chose to do the rest first.

Great discussion guys!

James

[jtodd]

The reason you don't recoup your money is that the more modifications you make to the car to prepare it for racing, the smaller the potential market for the car there is. There is a thread, Welcome a 'new' Opel racecar....., RallyBob' friend bought an ex-racer for $1,500 and had a $3,500 cage in it!

[okiejohn]

is it worth it or not to spend money on your opel?? its up to you but being able to get what you spend on one when and if you decide to sell is another story unfortunatly opels have a low sale value it just the way it is. is the money I've put into my opels worth it? to me hell yaaH but then it makes me smile and thats what its all about

[jeff denton]

I'm all for building another Opel race car, but be warned it's gonna be expensive to make it competitive. I used a GT to be different, and I love a good challenge. The competition hates it, there is no blue oval anywhere but on the label of the cigar that a monster is smoking on the sticker on the air cleaner lid.
As far as diminishing its value, well, what value? The yellow turbo car sold last week was practically given away, I believe. When there are less of them available the price might go up, I've said before, someday they will be on Barrett Jackson for $100,000 but not soon.
And race cars are usually kind of streetable. As long as they have the basic legal equipment installed. I think mine would be streetable if it had a title and mirrors and brake lights. I know it would be the safest little car on the street! "Go ahead, hit me, we're used to it!"
Anyway, do what you want. And have fun doing it. I'm with you!