starter

[OPELFIEND]

Bought a rebuilt starter for my 73 GT from OGTS, been working fine until yesterday. Now all I get is a sound like someone smacking a piece of metal with a hammer-- a big clunk. I would hate to have to pull that thing off and send it back to OGTS. Any thoughts on this? It's only about a month old.

[guyopel]

Try to turn the Eng. over with a wrench on the front crankshaft bolt ( to see if the eng. is locked up ) and to freeup the starter drive in case it is locked into the gear teeth of the flywheel . Hope this gives you a good place to start.
Jphn

[GTJIM]

Probably not the starter at fault - check all the electrical connections and make sure there is a ground ('Earth') strap from the motor to the chassis.

Also check that the ignition switch at the other end of the key on the steering column is OK - they tend to fail. Do a search for "Otto Start"

You can check the operation of the starter when it is off the car by hooking up the jumper cables and seeing if it operates as it should.

HTH

[OPELFIEND]

The thing has worked fine since it was put on the car about a month ago. I've been driving it every day, about 30-40 miles. Yesterday, the starter kind of whinned a couple of times when turning the key, then engaged and started right up. I cut the ignition and re-started it several times. Later in the day, after taking it for a drive, nothing but the sound I described. There is a ground to the motor, and all the electrical connections are good. Would an ignition switch or an electrical problem just happen all at once like that? It has been working fine.

[jvandyke]

I just put a starter on my GT but I'm still very much a newbie so take a grain of salt with this. And let's see if I'm close without searching it out here and double checking.
Did you try jumping the contacts on the solenoid? It's a common way to check stuff. Use a screw driver or something metal and touch the big fat lug on the solenoid to the other little one, essentially bypassing all the ignition stuff and giving the solenoid/starter a chance to operate.
Make sure your not in gear!!
If the starter seems to work then it's electrical gremlins somewhere else I believe.

PS-I was close: lug to lug, not lug to little connection, lug to lug takes everything out of play, it's just starter getting 12v. right? if the starter works then you know it's cool, then you can suspect solenoid and further back into ignition switch and such.....
this:
3rd - Use a stout screwdriver and, without grounding it to the block or oil dipstick) use it to jump the two large connector lugs on the starter. Make sure the car is out-of-gear when you do this or you'll find you've just ran over your own foot and created quite the cocktail party story


from post #2 of my thread
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/1a-star...rank-spin.html

[Lindsay]

Bought a rebuilt starter for my 73 GT from OGTS, been working fine until yesterday. Now all I get is a sound like someone smacking a piece of metal with a hammer-- a big clunk. I would hate to have to pull that thing off and send it back to OGTS. Any thoughts on this? It's only about a month old.

Besides everything else mentioned, I would check battery with volt meter. Healthy battery should have approx. 12.6v to 12.8v (minimum 12 volt). If not, auto parts store can check battery. Volt meter is handy, inexpensive troubleshooting tool. Also, try jumper cables to attempt start.

[Lindsay]

mine did that and all it was is the battery

Previous GT would not start when it was HOT, but was able to push start (barely). One of the battery cells shorted/ battery was old. 10-volts were not enought to start a warmed-up GT (replaced battery) in the summer. I now have a voltmeter gauge in the current GT.

[OPELFIEND]

Thanks for all the input. The car will run fine, I just have to push it or let it coast and pop the clutch. Checked battery, no problem. I'm pretty sure it's the starter -- and it's only a month old. What a hassle.

[namba209 (R.I.P.)]

Well, maybe not. The hammering sound you hear is the solenoid piston smacking a large washer into two contact buttons under the plastic cap of the solenoid. It is possible that the power to drive the piston into the contacts is too much for the ignition switch to handle. All the years of starting the engine will take its toll on the ignition switch as the contacts inside the switch will arc and spark every time the engine is started and will erode away, similar to the igintion points on a battery-coil ignition used in the Opel. The best way to check out the starter in the car, is to jumper the top large connector on the solenoid to the horizontal spade lug. If the solenoid operates and makes contact internally, and the motor turns over, then your ignition switch is suspect. If nothing happens, try jumping the large contact it to the other spade lug connector. If you do determine your ignition switch is suspect, OGTS can refurbish them. To keep your ignition switch like new again, contact "tekenaar" on this site for one of his 'Otto Switch" ignition switch savers. HTH.

[OPELFIEND]

I'm told the starter had some sort of broken lever inside, that it was just defective, and not due to the car or myself. When an ignition switch goes bad, what exactly happens? Does the car just not start? Do you get nothing when turning the key? The car starts right up (when the starter works). Does Otto sell those "Otto-start" devices himself?

[jvandyke]

Your "new' refurb'd starter is busted? Must be you took it off and brought it somewhere? Was it the Bendix that busted? Just curious.

[OPELFIEND]

Yes, I took it off and took it to Tri-State Alternator to be checked. I just bought it from OGTS about 1 month ago. Just defective I guess. They are going to make it right, however it is a major hassle to have to fool with it. The original starter that I replaced wouldn't disengage; it just kept grinding and smoking even after the key was turned off and taken out of the ignition.

[namba209 (R.I.P.)]

I'm told the starter had some sort of broken lever inside, that it was just defective, and not due to the car or myself.
When an ignition switch goes bad, what exactly happens? Does the car just not start? Do you get nothing when turning the key?

Actually, all of the above, the starter solenoid may engage then disengage , or you may get nothing at all, it depends on how bad the contacts are inside.

The car starts right up (when the starter works).

Does Otto sell those "Otto-start" devices himself?

Yes, he modifies the relays he purchases and sends you the relay with instructions. A very neat package, you can't go wrong with.

[West Coast GT]

I'm just a shade-tree mechanic, not like these other guys that know their stuff... So, with this in mind:

Guys, the sound reported to us seems more like a mechanical failure, does it not? Could this be a broken fly-wheel tooth, or several that are still kicking around loose and intermittently getting jammed up in the works?

Still thinking of broken fly-wheel teeth, could the sound emanate from the starter gear engaging the fly-wheel where a tooth is broken, but not missing? I suspect an engine always stops rotating at two specific spots (for a 4 cylinder engine) whenever the ignition is killed. Perhaps it's one of these two spots that have a fly-wheel problem.

I really hesitate to mention this, but can we rule out a fly-wheel bolt banging around loose? It seems that we can because the banging would occur while the engine is running under this scenario, not solely during start mode.

Question for OpelFiend: Does the engine begin to rotate, and then the bang occurs? Or does the bang occur immediately without any engine rotation?

Question for OpelFiend: What happened to the previous starter that initiated purchasing the current one? What were the symptoms? Do you still have the previous starter in your possession?

[West Coast GT]

Oops
I missed the previous two posts.
Like Emmily Latella says, "Never mind".

[OPELFIEND]

The engine doesn't rotate at all, just a "clunk". I had to push it out of the garage yesterday, to pop the clutch, and when I jumped in I turned the key. Started right up. (I push the thing by myself and jump in). If it rotates, it starts. Tried it again, just the clunking sound. Sometimes a whirring noise, but mainly just a clunk. The guy who looked at it explained what was wrong, but I can't quote him. He did mention the bendix, some lever or something that makes it engage, and that it could be fixed for ~$45.00. However, I am going to mail it back to OGTS and get another. Dennis said it would be under warranty and shipping charges would be refunded. A hassle, but I guess that's just life. Those guys at OGTS are real pros. I don't fault them on this at all.

[namba209 (R.I.P.)]

O.K., there are two basic types of starters with solenoids mounted on them. One has a "Bendix" on it that uses an over-rrunning clutch, the starter motor turning forces the bendix and attached pinion gear into the ring gear on the flywheel. The second type uses a linkage on the solenoid piston that has a lever with a fork attached. The piston moving forward causes the lever to pivot on a pin that engages the pinion gear into the flywheel ring gear. If you have the starter out, see if you can move the pinion gear away from the solenoid end of the starter to see which type of starter you have. You should be able to tell when the pinion is fully seated in the nose of the starter. HTH.

[markandson]

If you still have your old starter it sounds like it is repairable. The reason it would stay engaged is simple, old grease and dirt. All that is necessary to fix it is to take it apart, clean everything a re-lube it.

[OPELFIEND]

Yes, I just found out there is a place in town that would have done that for <$50.00. Man, I am about to scream. I didn't think the thing could have been rebuilt, and the lousy garage I had working on it knew about the shop and I didn't. I now have a fortune tied up in a starter. I just paid $32.50 to ship a 16# defective starter to California. I could have saved myself ~$250.00 (I replaced both the alternator and starter) by having them rebuilt. I guess you live and learn.

[tomking]

OGTS cant do everything for us, but we couldnt do with out them either.