can't get it timed and started

[jayhawkjesse33]

Well after all lthe help with my last thread on the Hot Spark iginition installation, I figured I'd go back to the drawing (disscussion) board and try to get this thing figured out so I can start driving my car again.

I just got done trying to sett the timing of my car and came in because I'm frustrated. After about an hour of work on it, I just have to get away from it and regroup with some info before starting again. Before I started the timing process today, it would start but would idle very rough (post electronic ignition installation). Once I had it idling (at higher rpms to keep it running), I started turning the distributor (to the right or clockwise) and the car began to run smoother. Once I thought I had it where it sounded great, I kicked the rpms down, and the car died. Then it was difficult to get started. Then it just got tougher to start. Some times it smelled very rich of fuel and other times it smelled hot. I am using a brand new timing light, but the problem is, I don't have the ball in the flywheel, its just a hole where the ball is supposed to be. Right now, I turned the engine over manually to line up that hole with the pointer. The rotor is currently pointed at the #1 plug line (wire that goes to the plug that is closest to the radiator). I have, and have had mostly the entire time, the vacuum line from the distributor disconnected and plugged.

What should I do now? Any suggestions on what to try?

Thanks in advance for the advice and the help

Eric

[West Coast GT]

1. Get the car started.

1st off, let the car sit at least an hour. You may have flooded it.
If you have a battery charger, go hook it up to top-off the battery.
When you go back to start the car, do not, do not touch the accelerator pedal.
Crank the engine several revolutions. stop. Crank the engine several times.
If it hasn't fired up by now, slowly push the accelerator to the floor and hold it there. Crank the engine without letting off on the pedal. Do not pump the accelerator.
If it still hasn't started, go purchase Hot Start. Be judicious with it; don't over spray it. Just a 1/2 second spray down the carb. Better yet, spray down the carb while someone else is cranking the engine.
If it still hasn't started - hang it up for the night 'cause you'll be too pissed to do any good.
Get better advice from those other guys on this forum that actually know what they're talking about.

2. Timing

Rotate the engine by hand until the flywheel is in proper position (pointer lines up with where the ball should be) and the distributor rotor is somewhat positioned as though it will spark the number one cylinder.
Adjust the distributor until the rotor is as close to dead-on as you can judge.
Start the engine and do your final tweaking on the distributor.
If, and when, you feel the timing is good, carefully use a chisel or Dremil to make a notch on the timing chain cover and one on the crank pulley. Paint it with a white paint pen (available at Ace Hardware).

If all else fails, I've been known to forget the timing ceremony, just reach down there and twist the distributor until the vacuum lines and electrical wires "feel" like they've settled back down into the position they held over the years.

If it still fails to start, go back and lean the idle mixture by screwing the needle in a couple of turns - do not tighten so much you hit bottom.


And, for what it's worth; you are correct that the plug closest to the radiator is cylinder Number 1.

[Gordy]

Are you sure the timing "ball" is actually missing or just way off from where you expect it to be. If it is a manual trans I would put the car in the drive way when it is light and you can see in the timing "window" and slowly push the car (by turning the right front tire) as you watch in the timing window as the flywheel slowly turns. It may be that the timing is so far off that once you find the "ball" you can start from scratch. There are other holes etc that you will see in the flywheel as it turns. If you are really in doubt, take the valve cover off and by using the #1 intake and exhaust valve movement get your bearings on where the ball should be.
PS- are you sure there is gas in the car (although you did say it smelt gassy)

[jayhawkjesse33]

So I just came in from doing exactly what you wrote...even though I'm just now reading it. And I did everything except getting the Hot Start and spraying it in the carb. When I first went back for round 2, it started up...then died after about 3 minutes of idling, with no adjustment to the distributor. After that is was just a mo'fo to get started. My neighbor suggested a problem with the carb. And when I did get it to 'start' it was just at about 800 rpms and even if I got on the gas pedal, it wouldn't respond at all...no matter how little or how much I depressed the pedal. Then it would die as soon as I could get out of the car to move the distributor....it really felt like a Charlie Brown and Lucy football experience, which pissed me off, but yet I had to laugh at it a bit.

Just had to place a phone call to my Dad to have him make a trip down here before I completely lose my mind on this car. I'm getting tempted to getting a new ignition incase its bad and even contemplating putting the points and condensor back on...

[markandson]

You have to eliminate something here because it's hard to tell if your problem is ignition or fuel. Go back to something you are sure about, if that is points and condenser, do it, if it is a reliable carb do that, but get to a point where you know something is good, then go after the bad apple. Basic trouble shooting, don't change more than one thing at a time, and eliminate the easy stuff first.

[West Coast GT]

Just had to place a phone call to my Dad to have him make a trip down here before I completely lose my mind on this car. I'm getting tempted to getting a new ignition incase its bad and even contemplating putting the points and condensor back on...

Yeah, dads are good this way.

I recommend you hold off on putting points & condenser back on. This will introduce a new set of variables and you could end up dealing with a compound problem. Eliminate all other possibilities first, then swap out for points/condenser. But hold off until you get your father's input. You're probably at the point now where your judgement is going out the window and you'll start making stupid mistakes. Wait until you have a calmer, fresher perspective (your dad's).

I had the same exact situation last year. Turns out I had so many problems (compound scenario) fixing one wouldn't fix the car. So I backed off and started with step one; removing all the crap from around the basic engine so I could, without a doubt, know I was dead-on Top Dead Center with ignition positioned for cylinder number 1. That's when I made permanent timing marks on the front of the engine 'cause quite frankly, with a water choke carb I can't see the damn flywheel with a timing light.

Once I had my timing statically set, I put new radiator and heater hoses back on the car. I also replaced every vacuum line on the car. Which helped because every one of them leaked bad, including the vacuum assist brake hose.

As I removed and cleaned the caked dirt/grease off my distributor I discovered the pot-metal housing had a hole punched through it and it was cracked apart. Only the cake held it together and kept the water out. Replaced it with a new distributor.

Then it ran, ran rough, but ran. Tuned in the carb. It ran better. Installed the Crane ignition system. It ran better. Put the Solex back on. It ran pretty damn good. Good enough to drive it from the San Francisco Bay Area to the Route 66 Car Show & Opel National, and back.

Converted to Weber 32/36 and it runs quite nice.

By the way; us dad's like our son(s) to call once in a while and ask for help. Besides, Father's Day is coming up and hopefully you'll have the Opel running by Sunday evening and can treat him to a steak.

[West Coast GT]

Oh, one more thing.
Check that little grounding strap inside the distributor. It grounds the points and sometimes the solder breaks loose. It looks like it's still soldered, but poke it anyway to see if it's just flopping around. That'll make the car run real crappy, like an old man off his meds.

[jayhawkjesse33]

Well with the timing light on the time-finder (for lack of a better term) I could see that hole that i was describing stayed in the same location...and after manually turning the flywheel with the pulley, i never saw a ball. I'm not saying its not there, but I just didn't see it. That could be the reason that its running so rough, if at all though...the timing is just WAY off. It has plenty of gas, filled up a day before i parked it.

And trust me, my dad has been gettin plenty of calls from me since I started monkeying around with this ignition a week ago.

[tekenaar]

Just curious, what is the condition of the inside of your disti cap . . . any moisture on inside of cap, any carbon tracking, corrosion on rotor contacts, center sprung carbon pole in good condition.

I once washed the underhood area of one of my Opels, with a plastic disti cap/wire cover even, fired right up after and ran an errand to Target a couple of miles from there. Bought needed items in the store and car would not start at all!

Checked all the usual things to no avail and finally checked the disti cap . . . thin film of moisture inside the cap was the culprit, shorting secondary plug voltage to ground inside the cap! . . . engine heat boils off moisture from washing and vapor finds its way through disti vent holes and collects at highest point . . . inside the cap! . . . car had Pertronix too!

[blancojp]

Well after all lthe help with my last thread on the Hot Spark iginition installation, I figured I'd go back to the drawing (disscussion) board and try to get this thing figured out so I can start driving my car again.

I just got done trying to sett the timing of my car and came in because I'm frustrated. After about an hour of work on it, I just have to get away from it and regroup with some info before starting again. Before I started the timing process today, it would start but would idle very rough (post electronic ignition installation). Once I had it idling (at higher rpms to keep it running), I started turning the distributor (to the right or clockwise) and the car began to run smoother. Once I thought I had it where it sounded great, I kicked the rpms down, and the car died. Then it was difficult to get started. Then it just got tougher to start. Some times it smelled very rich of fuel and other times it smelled hot. I am using a brand new timing light, but the problem is, I don't have the ball in the flywheel, its just a hole where the ball is supposed to be. Right now, I turned the engine over manually to line up that hole with the pointer. The rotor is currently pointed at the #1 plug line (wire that goes to the plug that is closest to the radiator). I have, and have had mostly the entire time, the vacuum line from the distributor disconnected and plugged.

What should I do now? Any suggestions on what to try?

Thanks in advance for the advice and the help

Eric

Though help can be found in many ways, all situations are not the same.
If the car is cold, or started for the first time, you need to engage the choke in order to keep the car running. If the butterfly is fully open, the you must add fuel to balance out the mixture but once it gains some temperature, it plain dies on you and becomes hard to start. You also want to make sure the ignition cables are properly installed. When the 1.9L engine is cold, you can swap cable #3 and #4 and the engine will run for a while rough.

I would do the following:
1) set timming, plug all vacuum ports and get the engine ready to start.
2) Close the choke butterfly all the way and then back off until you have about a 1/4" opening.
3) Accelerate to full throttle once and let go. Verify butterfly opens and comes back to same location.
4) Try to start the car and let idle for a minutre or so. If it starts and dies, increase the idle RPM's until you get somewhat of a steady idle.
5) You can now start your adjustments to smooth out operation.