heater valve

[kwilford]

Okay, but even if the volume drops won't the core soon be as hot with say 5 gallons/minute running through of 200 degree coolant as it will with 7 gallons per minute of 200 degree coolant. I'm just not convinced that a moderate change in volume, once things are all heated up is going to change the temp coming through the vents in the car but I readily admit I don't know squat about this stuff. It does matter though because if I opt for an electric valve and I'm wrong and I can't control temp then I'll be grumpy.

The coolant flow rate through the core matters. A LOT. The heater core simply transfers heat from the coolant into the air blowing through the core. If you don't restrict the coolant flow, FAR too much heat is available to be transfered to the air. Simply, you wil have no control of the temperature.

Think of your engine and radiator. If it didn't matter how much coolant was pumped through the engine you would need a pretty tiny water pump.

Heat transfer is a function of:
1) approach temperatures (the difference between the two objects, in this case the coolant and air temperatures)
2) the heat transfer coefficient (the "effectiveness" of how heat is conducted, or convected, from one object to the other)
3) mass flow rate (how MUCH heat can be brought in, and taken away)

This is the "volume" of heat, NOT the temperature. To heat up the air inside your cold car, you need LOTS of heat transfer. Not just a small amount of very hot air, but LOTS of VERY hot air. So lots of hot coolant, and lots of air to be heated.

Conversely, if you just need a "bit" of heat, you REALLY need to be able to control the coolant flow (since you have NO control of the coolant temperature, as that is determined by the engine thermostat), and to a lesser degree, the amount of air flow (for example, by the fan speed).

The GT heater system also includes an air bypass (ie cold air) around the heater core as the temperature control is slid towards the cold side, effectively reducing the heat transfer from the core, making the temperature control more effective. You'll see this when you take your heater core box apart, which you will have to do to repair your squeaky fan.

The cables are a bit complicated, but when set up, work VERY well. One controls the heater valve with a second cable on the same slider controlling the bypass air. The other controls the position of the air flow (to the floor, to the defrost ducts, or a combination). Oh, and pay heed to the advice to look closely at your heater slide control. They are almost AWAYS broken, thereby eliminating the proper function of either the valve, bypass or position. I was able to fix mine with an aluminum plate and some pop rivets, but usually they are too damaged to repair. The OGTS aluminum replacement is a bit pricey, but well worth the $

HTH

[jvandyke]

Alright, it seems the consensus is that the heater valve which is variable via the temp slider does assist significantly with temp control along with the air bypass valve with runs off the same lever (all of this I'm well familiar with since I've been playing with my spare). With this in mind I'll reinstall a mechanical and therefore variable valve as the Opel gods intended.

BTW I got pretty far taking apart my dash last night, got the instrument cluster "pulled away" from the dash, too many wires and junk to try and remove it completely. I think I can get done what I want to get done (pull, fix and reinstall the entire heater assembly) and put in a new stereo, fix and reinstall the original Keintzle (sp?) clock and possibly set up the defrost rocker switch to control my electric fuel pump-what else should I do in there?)
My concern (to get back on topic) is that an OTGS stitched vinyl dash cover has been installed. It looks nice and is well done but has created problems in removal of dash (or so it would seem so far).
Somewhere I read that the heater assembly can be removed and reinstalled with the dash pad still in the car. Does anyone know if this is indeed possible? (I have a feeling I'll be able to answer this question myself in a day or two )

PS both my current control sliders, and the ones on the spare assembly are intact (piece of plasic edge on face plate is broken off the in-the-car-one). But both temp sliders would only go half way, the reason is both had issues with cables, one had a big kink in the one that controls air valve (so heater valve was also unable to be used) and the other seems to be seized somewhere in the one to the heater valve. At the moment I'm planning on building the best unit-; fan motor, core, controls, case, cables I can out of the two.

[namba209 (R.I.P.)]

First off the dash has to come out for the heater box removal. So that means the instrument panel as well. Here's the drill for the instrument panel removal, and you appear to be half way there. Disconnect the plugs at the fuse panel. for the steering column and panel. Drop the steering column, 4 bolts. Two bolts behind the panel down low, there is a plug on the pax side of the dash to remove that bolt (8mm head), remove the turn signal flasher can, driver's side behind the panel. Remove seven screws that hold the panel ( you've already done that). Disconnect the speedo cable and antenna from the radio. Gently work panel loose from the dash being careful of the protrusions where the screw nut plates are attached. The panel is old and may be brittle so extreme care is required in removing it. There will also be an odd wire or two that has to be disconnected. For the dash, 2 screws by each door jam and 6-7 at the base of the windshield. I would suggest using an Exacto knife, carefully feel for the depressions where the screws are in the dash at the windshild and make a small "X" over each screw head, that will allow a #1 stubby Phillips screwdriver or a flex drive to access the screws. You can get dimpled washers to put on the screws to cover the cuts in your dash cover. The dash will be difficult to remove, the two air vents in the dash have hoses attached to the intake air plenum and hoses from the heater box to the duct for heat and defog. But they are visible after the instrument panel is removed. HTH.

[baronbors]

I have found that the front panel removal is much easier if the two dash screws on eithe side of the dash by the door are removed. You then have a certain amount of lift on the dash and helps the panel slide out much easier. You have dropped your steering wheel- haven't you?

[jvandyke]

Yep, dropped the column last night too. I'm following FSM on this (but it is the '73 edition, I've got a '70).
I was happy to see the tear bolts were gone!!! but it still gave me a bit of grief, one of em didn't want to let go. No big deal.
So far all has gone well, no reason to suppose that the total removal shouldn't go equally as well. (that's about the time it all blows up, ain't it? Mr. Murphy?)

[jvandyke]

I hope to make some more progress tonight. I'm I correct that normally, the majority of wires connecting the instrument cluster to the car, the ambilical cord if you will, is disconnected, in theory, only a few more wires stand between me and completel detachment? I've got a lot more than that, mostly stereo related.

Heading to parts store for something like this
http://www.westcoastbronco.com/produ...l=2&Cat1_ID=17

[jvandyke]

There will also be an odd wire or two that has to be disconnected. For the dash, 2 screws by each door jam and 6-7 at the base of the windshield. I would suggest using an Exacto knife, carefully feel for the depressions where the screws are in the dash at the windshild and make a small "X" over each screw head, that will allow a #1 stubby Phillips screwdriver or a flex drive to access the screws. You can get dimpled washers to put on the screws to cover the cuts in your dash cover. .

Quick note: odd wires might include those to AMP meter? then a bunch of bundles off the fuse box?
The door jam screws on either side of the dash cover appear to have been covered over since cover was done with dash off then put back every screw that is covered, isn't there, follow me? the lower left passenger one, behind the plug by the heater controls; not there, both sets as above, not there, I've managed to find a few that are along windshield. In short, there ain't much holding this dash on........

[namba209 (R.I.P.)]

Yeah, the ammeter wires need to be disconnected as well, along with the radio power lead IIRC along with a wire that has a spade lug disconnect. I can take some pics of the screws and bolts to help you out in the a.m. I've got my instrument panel out right now waiting the get the tach fixed, but I'll be able to show where the bolts go in the panel with it laying against the headlight lever.

[jvandyke]

That would be a good picture to have here for reference even if I don't need it. Mine are still attached, I'm going to lable them all before I disconnect. Tape and a pen may save headaches later. Although I didn't lable some that where grounded to the steering column, those you'd think would be obvious.
I'm off to buy something to help with the insidious dash screws, have to search again to see who likes what and why, flexible screw drivers......

[jlthunder]

I don't know if this was mentioned, but make sure the battery is disconnected
You don't want the amp wire touching any grounding surface.

[namba209 (R.I.P.)]

As promised here's the pics of the attaching hardware for the dash, as close as I could get the camera to take them. 3 screws on each outside edge, 4 screws at the base of the windshield, I had to take the pic through the windshield, so I marked the locations with masking tape, the two bolts on either bottom of the instrument panel for its removal along with the hole in the dash to acess the pax side. Oh Yeah, there are two more screws for the dash under the heater control panel, easily seen when the instrument panel is removed. Once you disconnect the connector plugs at the fuse panel, remove the ammeter wires and the one from the headlight micros, Gray/Green with spade lugs disconnect, and the other assundry wires that don't go through the fuse panel, the panel should come out, almost. You still have to remove the console panels, at least I have to. The rear panel is held in with 3 screws, the front with the gear shift and headlight lever is held in place with spring clips, two at the rear and two half way toward the front. The headlight lever will have to be removed also, it's held on the shaft by a small screw in the side of the handle. HTH.

[jvandyke]

alright, back on topic: Heater Valves
I'm planning on using this one pictured below. I moved the bracket over to the other side because it needed to be "flipped around" so it would open when the cable pulled and close when it pushed. (I think that's right, not in front of me now)
This valve is from an early Bronco 66-71 I think. It is composite material. Seems well made, operates smoothly. I was hoping to simply bend a 90 degree at the end of the cable and stick it down into the valve's control arm as an attachement method, I mocked it up and it worked fine, if I can bend the old cable that much without breaking it, maybe should torch it a bit first?
Anyway, I have a redirected coolant line situation and non stock valve location (I don't even know where it is supposed to be) so I wanted a straight valve, no 90 degree. I'm planning on splicing it in on the lower hose where it enters the engine bay through the firewall. I don't think it will need a mount of any kind, the coolant hoses should be sufficient to hold it still but a bracket can be easily modded up if necessary. My heater valve control cable is right there too.

My only concern is I'm installing the valve backward. Against the way coolant is supposed to flow. I can't see how it matters much, or does it?

[namba209 (R.I.P.)]

Personaly, would not put the valve in the hose to the water pump, that hose pulls the coolant through the heater core, so the valve IMHO should go in the source line rather than return line. As for which tube to put each hose to, it's hard to tell by looking at the core. I would suggest a piece of hose hooked to one tube above the core, pour about a quart of water in the hose and see if it comes out the other tube. If it does, the tube with the hose goes to the top of the core and that's where I would put the flow control valve. HTH.

[tekenaar]

alright, back on topic: Heater Valves
I'm planning on using this one pictured below. I moved the bracket over to the other side because it needed to be "flipped around" so it would open when the cable pulled and close when it pushed. (I think that's right, not in front of me now)
This valve is from an early Bronco 66-71 I think. It is composite material. Seems well made, operates smoothly. I was hoping to simply bend a 90 degree at the end of the cable and stick it down into the valve's control arm as an attachement method, I mocked it up and it worked fine, if I can bend the old cable that much without breaking it, maybe should torch it a bit first?
Anyway, I have a redirected coolant line situation and non stock valve location (I don't even know where it is supposed to be) so I wanted a straight valve, no 90 degree. I'm planning on splicing it in on the lower hose where it enters the engine bay through the firewall. I don't think it will need a mount of any kind, the coolant hoses should be sufficient to hold it still but a bracket can be easily modded up if necessary. My heater valve control cable is right there too.

My only concern is I'm installing the valve backward. Against the way coolant is supposed to flow. I can't see how it matters much, or does it?

The heater core flow is: Water Pump nipple is SUCTION ("OUTPUT" FROM heater core); T-stat housing nipple is PRESSURE ("INPUT" TO heater core) . . .

[jvandyke]

The FSM, (http://www.opelgt.com/forums/group-9...e-hook-up.html post 15, 16) calls the lower hose a "feed" (the one to the water pump) and the top the "return", FWIW.

Bottom line: does anyone think it would matter much if I put the valve on the lower, water pump, line? Then does anyone think it matters much if the flow arrow on the valve is pointing the "wrong way", meaning I installed it backwards (no choice really, cable must push and pull to open). I could probably reroute the upper hose to a position that is more stock where I could use the heater valve and cable as stock, but it'd be a PITA compared to just splicing it in as described above.
Let's say the FSM terminology is loose, as it seems. As Opel intended: the valve stops the flow of coolant into the core as it comes from the thermostat, the water pump draws whatever's in the heater system out and leaves it dry, no heat at all (I'm guessing)
If I reverse this, the coolant from the thermostat side will flow into and muck about in the core, there'll be some heat there even if it isn't continually circulating.
It's a question of where in the circuit the flow is stopped. Right?

[tekenaar]

The FSM, (http://www.opelgt.com/forums/group-9...e-hook-up.html post 15, 16) calls the lower hose a "feed" (the one to the water pump) and the top the "return", FWIW.

Bottom line: does anyone think it would matter much if I put the valve on the lower, water pump, line? Then does anyone think it matters much if the flow arrow on the valve is pointing the "wrong way", meaning I installed it backwards (no choice really, cable must push and pull to open). I could probably reroute the upper hose to a position that is more stock where I could use the heater valve and cable as stock, but it'd be a PITA compared to just splicing it in as described above.
Let's say the FSM terminology is loose, as it seems. As Opel intended: the valve stops the flow of coolant into the core as it comes from the thermostat, the water pump draws whatever's in the heater system out and leaves it dry, no heat at all (I'm guessing)
If I reverse this, the coolant from the thermostat side will flow into and muck about in the core, there'll be some heat there even if it isn't continually circulating.
It's a question of where in the circuit the flow is stopped. Right?

. . . and THAT's absolutely correct, you just interpreted the engine side connections of the A and B hoses backwards, i.e. the heater core bottom "A" hose is connected to the T-stat (pressure, heater core feed) while the upper "B" hose is connected to the WP (suction/heater core return).

Part of the confusion is perhaps due to terminology . . . the radiator lower hose is the suction/feed side for the WP!!, and suction/return by WP nipple for the heater core. The pump pressurizes the block/head and thus the T-stat housing and upper radiator hose, which becomes "feed" for both radiator and heater core. Clear?! . . .

[jvandyke]

. . . and THAT's absolutely correct, you just interpreted the engine side connections of the A and B hoses backwards, i.e. the heater core bottom "A" hose is connected to the T-stat (pressure, heater core feed) while the upper "B" hose is connected to the WP (suction/heater core return).

Well I'm even more confused.
So this is wrong then? (picture below for convenience)
http://www.opelclub.com/October2006TechTip.pdf

This diagram seems to indicate the A hose (lower one) going to WP. B going to T-housing. This is how my car is set up although the routing of hose B is drastically altered. My heater valve was on hose A before I pulled the clamp was off the bracket and the valve frozen but I assumed it worked before it broke and froze. Maybe not. We're about to find out. Because I'm replacing it that way. All the time spent today typing about it I could have tried it both ways 6 times (believe me, I'd rather be in the garage experimenting with the Opel then bored at work typing about experimenting with Opels.......)

[soybean]

My heater valve was on hose A before I pulled the clamp was off the bracket and the valve frozen but I assumed it worked before it broke and froze.

OGTS sells them here in their catalog. There is another valve that will work and bolt up to the wire etc, right size everything, but I can't remember the price. Strangely enough it is on a combine. An Allis Chalmers F-3 series. If you want Pm me and I can call my dealer and get a price for it. I replaced the one on mine 4 years ago and kept the old one as a spare because it looked like the ones that came on the Opels. Jarrell

[SpringGT]

Well I'm even more confused.
So this is wrong then? (picture below for convenience)
http://www.opelclub.com/October2006TechTip.pdf

This diagram seems to indicate the A hose (lower one) going to WP. B going to T-housing. This is how my car is set up although the routing of hose B is drastically altered. My heater valve was on hose A before I pulled the clamp was off the bracket and the valve frozen but I assumed it worked before it broke and froze. Maybe not. We're about to find out. Because I'm replacing it that way. All the time spent today typing about it I could have tried it both ways 6 times (believe me, I'd rather be in the garage experimenting with the Opel then bored at work typing about experimenting with Opels.......)

The diagram is correct in all respects, except one. The upper hose from the thermostat is pictured schematically as going into the upper heater tube, whereas in reality, on the GT, it would go into the lower of the two heater core tubes on the car.
The heater valve should be installed as shown in the diagram; i.e.,in the line from the thermostat to the heater inlet, and it should be installed honoring the flow direction marked on the valve.
Since the thermostat tube is the pressure source, the valve should be installed such that the "seat" side of the valve is toward the thermostat and the "stem" side of thevalve faces downstream away from the thermostat. This takes the pressure off of the stem when the valve is closed and should prevent water from eventually breaching the stem seal and spraying your engine compartment. That is the reason for the directional markings on the valve.

However, since one of your heater tubes has been re-routed through the firewall, it might be a challenge to hook this up properly and still get your stock heater control wire to work. Is there any chance of installing your spare heater unit while your dash is out so that you can plumb things up in a factory-stock mannner?

[jvandyke]

The mistake in the diagram really threw me then.
A million thanks to all for all your patience in helping me sort this out.
I finally pulled the old one out. I have a newfound appreciation for the "Dreaded PO".
Here is a pictorial of what things were/are.
http://homepage.mac.com/jvandyke/Car...oAlbum117.html

I think all this fabrication was done to make room for something no?
I'm leaning toward punching holes (or one big one) through that galvanized (?) and using the stock steel hoses off my spare box to run things back like stock. Any one got a picture of a stock set up of heater valve?