Brake woes.

[jpiper]

Recently I just finished rebuilding and installation of the front brake calipers and the rear brake cylinders. It is not until now that I had a chance to put in the fluid and commence bleeding the system. With my helper in the drivers seat I began with the rear brakes and everything was going as per normal (lots of clean fluid and removal of air bubbles). But when I went to the front wheels and started the procedure there was no fluid (didn't forget to top up the resorvoir) out of either caliper. There was hardly and brake pedal at all.
I checked the vaccum line from the booster and found that it was cracked at the intake manifold. Why I didn't see this when I was searching for the PCV connection (episode with the Valve cover hoses) in the same area is unknown to me. Anyway, with this vacuum line open will it create the symptoms that I am getting, no fluid to the front calipers? Am I instead looking at rebuilding the Master cylinder do to faulty seals?

[kwilford]

John,

Hopefully it's not the master cylinder. More than likely your caliper flex hoses have deteriorated. They fall apart internally, even when they look OK from outside, and won't let fluid through.

There is a Raybestos number (BH36884 for the front hoses, BH36724 for the rear, but I have been told the front hose also works for the rear), which I found on their website (http://www.raybestos.com/catalog/ste...0Sport%20Coupe). HOWEVER, when I ordered them through the local AutoValue last week, I was told they have been discontinued.

New ones are available from OpelGT Source (I ordered mine this week, as I completely rebuilt my brake system, including the master cylinder). HTH

[jpiper]

Keith;
Thanks for the info. Today I will crack the lines at the Master Cyl to check for fluid pressure to confirm your suspicions. I will also check the numbers you gave me at some of the local parts suppliers in the area, never know what they can have in a stock room.

[Stanley_P]

I also ordered new brake lines and flex lines this week
from OGTS. I hope my master cylinder is OK........Is there
anyway to check to see if it needs to be rebuilt....It seem to
work well when it was on the car......

Thanks,
Stanley

[jpiper]

Keith;
Well I was able to get some time in the garage this evening and check out your theory. Sure enough, I "cracked" the brake lines (luckily all fittings loosened without stripping the fittings or banging up my knuckles!) at the Master cylinder and had fluid with each pump, did the same thing at the fitting fwd of the flex hose and it was also good. Last check at the other end of the flex hose was as dry as a popcorn fart at a camp fire. Tried to blow some pressured air though the line and there was nothing. Looks like I will be ordering flex hoses tomorrow! I checked with a few auto parts places here in Ottawa and they didn't stock the lines, but were going to check at the warehouses in Toronto ($39.00 each Cnd). If not, I will be contacting Opel GT Source and ordering the after market lines.
Will provide and update when the lines are on.

[kwilford]

John,

Glad I could be of help. When I first heard about the theory of collapsed flex hoses, I thought "...sure, but maybe only to the extent that they keep fluid from flowing back toward the master cylinder, acting as a check valve and holding the calipers closed, but NEVER would they collapse enough to act like a shut off valve..." But you are the third person I have heard with totally collapsed hoses, which is why, after spending a bunch of money on rebuilding my calipers and master and new rear wheel cylinders, I ordered new hoses. They came (from California to Calgary) in less than a week. Still to be installed, like about a hundred other items.

And don't forget to order three hoses. The rear hose is the same material (and interchangeable with the front) and is certain to be close to failure as well. HTH.

[kwilford]

Oh, by the way, new aftermarket flex hoses from Opel GT Source cost $16.50 USD each, which is about $25 CAD. Shipping, including a new firewall insulator sheet and some other small stuff, was $12 USD, so three hoses, shipped, works out to $31 CAD each. Support our Opel parts supply (even if they aren't Canadian) and buy them from OGTS. HTH

[kwilford]

Stanley,

I hadn't forgot you. As for testing the master cylinder, it is mainly an issue of internal seal integrity. If it didn't leak externally, and you had good brake pressure, then it should be OK.

One issue that has come up in other posts is the end seal leaking and the booster hose sucking brake fluid into the intake manifold. Not to mention an actual failure to stop! With the amount of work you have in your restoration, a hundred bucks (tops) to get your MC rebuilt would seem pretty cheap compared to the shortened front sheet metal caused by a master cylinder failure. It IS 33 years old, remember!

[Stanley_P]

Great advice Keith,

I'm going to get that master cylinder rebuilt.
Just for the fact it is 33 years old.

Thanks,
Stanley

[jpiper]

Too late Keith;
A supplier in Toronto had 7 of the Raybestos lines in stock and I ordered 2 of them today. I will receive them tomorrow. Wasn't there tax on the purchase? After comparing your cost it would have been more economical to order them from OpelGT Source. I thought it would have evened out? Jean C. gets more of my hard earned "coppers" in his pockets! Lesson learned.
I will order the 3rd line from Opel GT Source.

[kwilford]

John,

There is no import duty, only GST, on "antique car parts", plus a $5 CAD "handling" fee (on any CCRA shipment). I suspect that they might catch you for PST in Ontario, but we don't have that evil tax here in the true land of the free. But both PST and GST would apply to the $39.50 CAD, or was that " taxes included"?

[jpiper]

Keith;
That is WITHOUT tax!! I am looking at approx $46.00 each for the lines. That's $15.00 difference on each line! Even with the PST (8%) added to $31.00 it would only bring the cost up to about $33.48, still a savings. I will definitely try some "smooth talking" when I go pick up the lines. Heck I could use that $30.00 to get the third flex line!
See what happens tomorrow.

[jpiper]

Keith;
Well, once I talked got to the auto parts store and spoke with the parts guy, he showed me on the computer that I was already receiving a discount (maybe cause I was in my military uniform). I was getting them at his cost of $39.00 and normal price was $59.00! Grand total came to $98.00 with a $5.00 purchase of some vacuum hose. Holy smoke!
On the drive home I kept thinking I will take them back tomorrow, but once I got in the garage, confirmed they were actually the correct ones I went ahead and installed them. When I weighed things out, wait about a week to get the order from OGTS and get the time to install them or have the hoses on tonight and take the kids for a spin on Saturday, the latter made $25-30 seem like mere pennies.
A lesson for other Canadian Opelers, before you purchase your parts at a local parts shop in your area ENSURE you compare the price with OGTS. As Keith so kindly pointed out even with the exchange and shipping you could be saving some cash.
Back to bleeding the brakes..........

[kwilford]

John,

Very good point on checking prices, whether or not you are in Canada. Generally, I like to support OGTS. But sometimes their prices make my head hurt. Like, I just bought a new aftermarket solid state voltage regulator. OGTS price is $29.95 USD, which is about $46 CAD. From the local Auto Value, it was $15.26 CAD, and on the shelf. So I chose to spread my support around.

[jpiper]

Well I finished getting the brakes bled, connected up the new vacuum line for the brake booster and reconnected the hoses from the valve cover. Started up the lil' girl and took the kids out around the block a couple of times. Everything was working great, no pulling to one side and lots of pedal. I don't know what made me happier, the fact that it was a succesfull fix and the master cylinder was OK or the smiles on the kids faces as we drove around the streets waving to their friends. Feels good on both counts.
Keith, do you have the part number for the Voltage Regulator? At that price, a spare would be a good idea.
Thanks for all the info.

[kwilford]

John,

It is a "Wilson" solid state regulator (made in Canada!) # 62-15-6637. "List Price" was $22.78, "Net Price" (whatever that is) was $15.26 CAD, from Auto Value (the former "Bumper to Bumper"). I haven't actually tried it yet, as my engine (as of yesterday) is now separated from the rest of the car. But it looks very much like the stock unit, with the same mounting holes, except the electronics are "potted" in epoxy. And why has my GT engine divorced its body, you ask?

I seem to have fallen into the trap of of fixing every possible fault, even some that may not have happened yet. I am doing a pretty good restoration here. Not too good, since that involves buying "Expensive German parts for a German car with no resale value". So, I reasoned, if I am going to do a "reasonable" restoration, why not drop the motor and paint the engine compartment before I get the exterior painted. And while I am at it, I'll replace the clutch that I had decided, when I rebuilt the engine earlier, was "good enough". And while the engine is out, why not install a new heat insulator pad on the firewall. And I might as well replace that front brake line that a PO (previous owner, of which there was only one, for a brief 5 years of the GT's life) installed in the wrong location. And it is WAY easier to pull the starter with the engine out, so I might as well get that rebuilt now, even if it hasn't given me a spec of trouble. The exhust manifold REALLY should have heli-coils installed, since I don't ever want to have a problem with an exhaust leak again. And since the front windshield is out, it is also much easier to pull the dash again and get that old heater core rebuilt. Wouldn't want to risk having THAT leak. Which makes me think about getting a new blower motor, since that squealed many years ago, and might again some day, even if I DID oil the bearings and install an oiling tube. Those old transmission mounts are looking a bit soft, no time like now to replace them. And while the motor is out, it would be really neat to paint the block and get some of the aluminum polished, since the valve cover turned out SOOO nice. Thom's engine looks nice, and mine should too. Maybe I ought to follow RallyBob's advice, and turn up the engine output a bit. Maybe a hotter cam, and change those emission-controlling 7.6:1 dished pistons for a set of flat tops, maybe even increase the bore a bit and make it into a 2.0 litre. Already have the good Pertronix ignitor and coil, might be a good time to toss that Pinto 32 DFM Weber and get a real 32/36 DGAV (actually bidding on one right now!) or even a 38 DGES.

PLEASE, somebody, make me stop fixing things that ain't broke, and get this damn obsession back on the road before they quit making gasoline!!!

[Stanley_P]

I know EVERYTHING your talking about, Keith.
I've gone to far to turn back now.

Stanley_P

[jpiper]

Keith;
Thanks for the specs on the VR. It appears that I am wading towards the same "trap" that you have encountered. I am holding off until the fall (Oct) before I decide on going ahead with rebuilding one of my other engines (or should I rebuild the original that is in the car...starting already!). I know that I will be in the same predicament that you are in at this time. "Now that this is out I might as well change the ......".
One thing that may help me is that I have a stock of parts back east in the Nova Scotia (2 trannies, another complete engine, glass, and other assorted goodies) and if I can get them transported up to Ottawa, at least I will be able to have a completed tranny and engine ready to put in when the other engine is taken out. This way I may get caught up in the "get it out and in" syndrome and not allow myself to be sidetracked.
Yeh right! I have some a few other questions to ask you, so I will start new threads, seeing that this one is growing.

[Maddyn]

hehe, think your's is bad? My opel is sitting in my uncles garage with nothing but the rear differential under it, interrior all stripped out. Then engine is in my parent's garage all pulled apart, and I don't have the cash to really get started on anything... and it's killing me not being able to do something on it.

now taking donations for the broke opel restorer

[Gary]

If it is any consolation, it took me 16 years to do my Red GT.

It was a daily driver until 1981. I put new rockers and a wheel arch in in 1984 and did little work on it until my daughter graduated from college in 1990. I finished college in 1991 and finally had the $$ to start working on it again. Painted in '93. Interior and finish work almost completed in '96. (I found I was starting to "cut corners" because I wanted to take it to Carlisle so I walked away from it and didn't start on it again until after the 1996 show.) Finally completed it in '97 and have been enjoying it ever since. Won 8 trophys the first year. ~ 25 total now.

Just completing a 24 X 28 garage to hold all the "Extras" from my 25 year old Opel addiction.

Damn, if it takes my 16 years to do my '51 Olympia, I'll be in trouble!!