Ga$ Price How high will they go?

[traytodd]

I paid $3.69 this moring for Shell in Cameron Park, CA. CA gasoline prices should not be impacted by Ike because most of our crude is local or north slope. The refineries here service just the west coast since there is limited pipeline capacity over the mountains.
Government could help at this time by suspending the local designer gasoline rules. This would permit sharing and make it easier to import fuel from Canada and other places.

Terry

[opelspyder]

It went from $3.55 to $4.99 in some places near by here in TN due to the storms. In one day! It is $4.29 here as of now.
Keith

[jlthunder]

I'v noticed a 10-30 cent spike over the weekend. And they say speculation has nothing to do with it Greed. Oil is down $5.00 as of this morning to 95.50/bbl

[traytodd]

Hopefully things will not get too crazy with gas prices while the LA/TX refineries are down. One minor reason crude is down is because down refineries do not consume it. I read somewhere that both the Baton Rouge and Baytown Exxon Refineries are down. That is 1 Mbbl/d off line for this one producer. I have worked in both those plants. Exxon can afford the losses but I am sure they are not happy. Restarts will depend on the amount of damage and the availability of electricity and workers. Most employees are probably like Tom, looking for shelter for the family first.

Terry

[jlthunder]

The price per barrel has doubled over the last few months. Will this yo-yo effect ever settle down?

[Aardvaark]

Doesn't look like it will. Until domestic oil supplies increase.

[OpelAl]

my belief is that after the gas went over 4.00 a gallon last year was a huge factor on the economy, gas prices go up, money budgeted for other expenses
was needed to fill your gas tank.
also rise in gas affected the price of food and goods to rise,also caused higher energy cost.
just my belief.

[opelgt73]

The price per barrel has doubled over the last few months. Will this yo-yo effect ever settle down?

When the fed stops messing with "monetary policy".

Here is what I see happening. It will fluctuate around 60-100 for a while until the economy turns around, then it will skyrocket. Then the current Administration will call this a "Crisis" that will have to be fixed yesterday, and then proceed to ram legislation through congress that nationalizes the oil industry.

[Aardvaark]

When the fed stops messing with "monetary policy".

Here is what I see happening. It will fluctuate around 60-100 for a while until the economy turns around, then it will skyrocket. Then the current Administration will call this a "Crisis" that will have to be fixed yesterday, and then proceed to ram legislation through congress that nationalizes the oil industry.

Any chance a nationalized oil industry would be able to drill in ANWAR
and off shore? It seems to me if CA allowed drilling off shore, the revenue
could go aways to helping their budget problems. And the increased supply would help smooth out the supply/demand.

[opelgt73]

Any chance a nationalized oil industry would be able to drill in ANWAR
and off shore? It seems to me if CA allowed drilling off shore, the revenue
could go aways to helping their budget problems. And the increased supply would help smooth out the supply/demand.

Hahaha Yeah right. Every time the government gets involved we get political decisions not economic ones. Which IMHO causes market dislocation and inefficiency, as well as generally being more costly.

Here is what would happen (in my opinion) if the government got involved.

-The Government will by force dictate that contracts will only be awarded to Union contractors instead of competitively bidding on the open market.

-They will dictate mandatory "inclusion" or "participation" percentages of contracts to be awarded to women owned or minority owned contractors. Sometimes as with some union contractors they are the most competitive, a lot of times that's not the case. If they were just as competitive the government wouldn't need to 'mandate' their use. Political, not economic.

-Lobbying groups with "green" agendas would lobby to raise the price of fuel so that consumers are forced to buy "green" cars. Again political, not economic. There has already been discussion by some politicians of raising the fuel tax so that gas stays at $4/gal for this same purpose.

-The "Green" lobbying groups would also lobby to keep ANWAR closed, so no dice their either.

Is there anything that the government gets involved with that it does better (cheaper or higher quality) than the private sector?

[traytodd]

It steals your mony more efficiently than any crook.

[sawdust]

I wonder how many Tankers are parked off shore waiting for the price to go UP....

[neuropel]

Is there anything that the government gets involved with that it does better (cheaper or higher quality) than the private sector?

I suspect we could find one or two, if we open our eyes and stop taking our way of life for granted. I found the list below after a quick search.

1. The FAA. Crashes are a rarity here, thanks to equipment safety tests and massively successful air flight controlling.

2. Medicaid: private sector insurance companies make money by ditching their customers when they get very sick. Medicaid picks up the castoffs. Ask a very sick person which insurance they feel offers higher quality.

3. Social Security: What if Mr. Bush had succeeded in privatizing SS before the markets crashed? Can you imagine how many old people would be working at WalMart, since their SS would have been cut in half? And did you know that before SS, thousands of older Americans simply starved to death?

4. SCHIP: Healthcare insurance for children who would not otherwise have it – enormously preventive of school absence, long-term illness, loss of physical and mental development.

5. The CDC: How do we know that the virulence of H1N1 is less than expected? Who is telling the world that US pork is safe to eat? How do we know whether an illness is H1N1 or not? It’s all the CDC. It's certainly not coming from the private health care industry.

6. School hot lunch programs: For many children, their only serious nutrition all day every day. What industry would do it?

7. The Soil Conservation Service: though bureaucratic, there is no private industry comparable. How vastly different would America be without the wetlands your dad and a thousand like him have created.

8. Head Start: kids from homes that have seriously dysfunctional emotional and learning environments have benefited enormously.

9. The Department of Motor Vehicles: how many mistakes have you had on your car registrations or titles?

10. E911 commissions: how long does it take an ambulance or fire truck to reach you if a child who can call 911 can’t tell the operator an address?

11. ANY State University Hospitals and Clinics – this is where ground-breaking medical research occurs, NOT in the private sector.

12. Open meetings laws for city, county, and state government office – nothing like it at all in the private sector. But if public officials make decisions without notifying us, they can get in big trouble.

13. Free public libraries – which most nations simply don’t have. Not many private industries offer these.

And let us not forget perhaps the best example - the United States Postal Service. How often do they lose your mail? I've lost packages being shipped in the private sector, but NEVER with the USPS.

[opelgt73]

post

You're missing the point. I never said the govt doesn't have a legitimate role to play. I'm talking about quality and efficient use of money. The examples you listed are either regulatory in nature (CDC, SCS) or DO have more efficient and better quality competition in the private sector (DMV, Hospitals, SS - would be more efficient**), or are in my mind legitimate because they are needed but there is no profit to be made so they are subsidized by the entire tax base (libraries, school lunch, SCHIP etc.)

**I've probably already turned this too political for these boards.....but just an item for though......

-SS over your lifetime will return 1-3% on your "investment"
-A savings account will return 2-4%
-A well diversified stock portfolio will return 10-12%

Who do you think does a better the Govt or the private sector? Even WITH the recent market crash had you been investing for the last 30-40 years at the same rate you were paying SS I guarantee you would STILL come out on top. The reason people were starving is that the populace isn't disciplined enough to save and invest, and as evident by the credit crunch they are already living above their means. I'm not totally apposed to a mandatory system of investment, however it is apparent that the govt does not provide a very good ROI. I'm also biased because I'm 28 and I know there will be no money to pay for SS when I retire, in fact by most estimates Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security will be over 50 Trillion in debt by the time I retire.

[GTJIM]

Is there anything that the government gets involved with that it does better (cheaper or higher quality) than the private sector?

Yes! Taxing us all - they have hundreds of years of monopoly experience at that which no private sector even has a look-in at!

Nationalise stuff - then they can suck out 'profits' at the front end and reap taxes at the back end.

Got to be the perfect system to 'harvest' the 'peasants' wealth.

Wonder why it has not been thought of before?

Oh! It has! That was the system Americans fought the British to escape from all those years ago.

Free for 200 years - got to be one of the longest periods in all history that 'peasants' actually took charge of their own affairs.

Welcome back to subjugation my American friends!

[neuropel]

You're missing the point. I never said the govt doesn't have a legitimate role to play. I'm talking about quality and efficient use of money. The examples you listed are either regulatory in nature (CDC, SCS) or DO have more efficient and better quality competition in the private sector (DMV, Hospitals, SS - would be more efficient**), or are in my mind legitimate because they are needed but there is no profit to be made so they are subsidized by the entire tax base (libraries, school lunch, SCHIP etc.)

**I've probably already turned this too political for these boards.....but just an item for though......

-SS over your lifetime will return 1-3% on your "investment"
-A savings account will return 2-4%
-A well diversified stock portfolio will return 10-12%

Who do you think does a better the Govt or the private sector? Even WITH the recent market crash had you been investing for the last 30-40 years at the same rate you were paying SS I guarantee you would STILL come out on top. The reason people were starving is that the populace isn't disciplined enough to save and invest, and as evident by the credit crunch they are already living above their means. I'm not totally apposed to a mandatory system of investment, however it is apparent that the govt does not provide a very good ROI. I'm also biased because I'm 28 and I know there will be no money to pay for SS when I retire, in fact by most estimates Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security will be over 50 Trillion in debt by the time I retire.

I don't think I'm missing the point at all really. I too was talking about quality and "ROIC", but I'll stop there as this is dangerously close to spiraling into a political morass - hopefully we can get this thread back on track, especially now that oil prices have started heading up again at an alarming rate. After all, the topic of this thread is supposed to be about gas prices.

Actually, I'm trying to figure out when diesel prices are going to be back at the top of the heap?

[jlthunder]

Actually, I'm trying to figure out when diesel prices are going to be back at the top of the heap?

In about 3 months when heating oil demand pickes up.

[Aardvaark]

Any chance a nationalized oil industry would be able to drill in ANWAR
and off shore? It seems to me if CA allowed drilling off shore, the revenue
could go aways to helping their budget problems. And the increased supply would help smooth out the supply/demand.

Wow! Has this question caused a political debate!
I really only wondered if the government controlled the oil suppy it would mean an upcoming administration could order off shore drilling and drilling in ANWAR thereby getting around the selfish environmentalists who now prevent it.
I didn't mean to start an argument.

[First opel 1981]

The price of fuel has nothing to do with drilling offshore. It has nothing to do with the government. It has nothing to do with tankers parked offshore.

The price of fuel (oil) has everything to do with speculators. They are the ones that set the price, nobody else.

The best (and only) thing we, as the public, can do is to cut back on use. When the speculators lose tons of money thinking the public will buy every drop at $100 per barrel then the price will never get to $100. If they know we will pay $100, they will try 101....and so on.

The reason oil prices took a dive (aside from the US president election) is that many speculators had tons of money in the oil and there was an all of a sudden surplus. They needed to unload oil at all costs so the price dropped. Now as it edges up, the speculators are getting back into testing the waters.
If everyone dropped their oil use by 10% then the price would drop again.

Supply and demand, folks..... They will charge as much as we are willing to pay unless we can show them they need to sell their product for less.

[opeletti75]

we should just get own oil out of alaska were the land is baron and i saw it my self its a wast land no cows no deer nothing ecept oil and lots of it and think of this the rest the world is useing oil so how do we think we are going to save the planet by not useing it yea we will go poor and this rest of the world will get rich like our enemies and our country will get weaker and the enemy is just waiting to strike at the right time we need to be self aficient and by drilling it will also put people to work and then it becomes a win win situation sorry fro the bad spelling