Speaker Watts how many??

[2 Fast 4 U]

I bought a new car radio / CD player, specs:

Sterio radio
plays CD / CDR / CDRW / MP3
Has USB slot for USB stick with WMA en- & decoding
Has slot for MMC / SD card
can play and record from and to USB and MMC /SD card
4 x 50 Watt
250 Watt PMPO [? what is PMPO]

My question: how many Watts [minimum] should my speakers be so that I don't blow them up?? [and I'm not using a sub woofer or something like that I want to use only 4 universal speakers]

[opelgt73]

At least double the wattage.

I ran outboard amps in my GT. Head units (even the 50W/ch ones) just aren't enough to overcome the loud interior of the GT. I would run 6x9's in the back and 5 1/4's in the doors.

[gr_diver]

If you look at the device's manual, at the specifications page there will be an "RMS" wattage printed in the amplifier section, which will be somewhere around 25-30W. This is the real wattage the headunit can supply constantly, and the speakers you will choose should have preferably a slightly larger RMS capability...

To give you an image, my Pioneed DEH-P5100R-B, has an 27W RMS, and my front 13cm "metal-coated cone" speakers, are rated at 35W RMS. In 5 years I use this setup, I have never had them distort, from a clear input (recording without clipping), even with the Loud(ness Contour) at "High"... (and believe me, I have a sensitive/sharp ear!)

But you should know that most headunits cannot properly drive four speakers. Since i added my 6x9 rear speakers, the illumination of my headunit's display fades during heavy Bass notes, and this is not because of poor power connections. If you want to just drive 4 speakers from a single headunit, I'd say stick with 13cm for the front, and 15cm for the rears. Anything more will be a waste, since they will be more expensive, and they will remain underpowered...

Since mentioned, for everyone having questions about headunits/speakers/amps/subs/installtions etc I have found this URL VERY helpful:

http://www.autohifi-world.de/fack/


HTH

[Paul]

My favorite web site to research electronics is www.crutchfield.com. They are very good at providing specifications for items sold that the manufacturer may not provide.

I agree that you need to pay more attention to the RMS power rating. RMS stands for Root Mean Square, its a mathematical way of averaging... Some manufacturerers will list the Peak power where as the Continuous (RMS) power is most telling. Same goes for speakers, just make sure the speakers can handle the RMS wattage level of the amp.

Now just because one pair so speakers is rated for 150W and another is rated for 75W doesn't mean the 150 watt speakers will be louder than the 75 watt speakers at the same power in put level.

GL

[Sparky73]

Pioneer sell some decent 6x9 with pretty good bass for the speaker, and Kenwood also has decent brands..but less bass, and more "high end tones". If you want to go all out on great speakers, I suggest Infinity. They are awesome all together! A buddy of mine also have some Polk Momo speakers.. loud as hell!

HTH, Jon

[opelwasp]

I run 8 speakers with 1200 watts in my GT. Yes it is freaking loud. 2 10" subs, 2 6x9, 2 6.5 and 2 1" tweeters. All Pioneer, the difference between speakers is the box you put them in.

[2 Fast 4 U]

But my question still stands how many Watts [minimum] should my speakers be so that I don't blow them up?? Is there some sort of formula to calculate this ????

[namba209]

Just look at the peak watt output of each channel on your radio, then get speakers with the next higher watt capacity. That should do it. The big thing for me on speakers is not the watts but clarity and range. For the folks that have mega power amplifiers and speakers out the kazoo, they are making the hearing aid companies very happy. They will eventually have to use all that power at full volume just to hear the music. The human ears are one of the few organs that do not heal, and all damage done to the ear is cumulative, once damaged they do not fix themselves but only get worse when abused.

[baz]

eh? what? you say somin sonny ? speak up i cant hear you !!!

[gr_diver]

Ok, here goes!

Choosing speakers has much to do with the way you listen...

If you intent to operate the headunit within the first half of it's volume range, and listen to calm music with low/moderate bass and mostly midrange focusing (classic/rock), choose a pair of speakers with slightly (-5 MAX) less RMS wattage than the headunit's RMS wattge. This will make the speakers more efficient/sensitive at the lower part of the volume range that you will be using. The downside is that such wattage of speakers will be small in size, and not adequate for producing a balanced low frequency output. In addition, if one day you turn it loud for that loved song, they might distort...

If you will listen to a kind of music with heavy bass (rap/hip-hop/house) and/or intent to listen loudly (at the upper half of the volume range) you will want a pair of speakers with about +10% larger RMS wattage than your headunit's RMS wattage.

The best combination is essentially one with the speakers being within 5-10% on the plus side of RMS wattge than the headunit. This will keep them efficient during the whole volume range, and at the same time not overstress them during those times you kick it up a bit (or more than a bit )

But if the difference gets big, more than 20% of the actual RMS wattage of the headunit, the speakers will be significantly underpowered, and underpowered speakers can get nasty to your headunit, because they have demanding coils to what juice the headunit provides... Don't imagine blowing it in 2 months, the amp inside the headunit might fail earlier to what it would (quality factor here), due to it operating closer to it's max abilities for most of the time...

By the way, since you are doing this from the beginning, make sure you use high quality audio cables, with crimped and soldered connectors. I myself have directly soldered the cables to the speaker's connector with high quality solder, but it makes removal of door upholstery difficult... But that's just me

And, as a final piece of advice, since you will be using just the headunit (no amps) get from a reputable brand a pair of 15cm 3 way, metal-coated cones for the front, to give you that accurate mid and high, and get a pair of 6x9, 2 way, paper cone for the rear, to give you a repsectable bass, without being ridiculously demanding from your headunit. This is how I do stereos for my friend's cars, and they are ALL happy (well, except for a guy that wanted component 3 way fronts, a pair of 2-way 13cm for the rear doors, a pair of 6x9 with crossover for the low range at the rear deck, and a box with two 12" subs to wake up his neighbours, while he can have respectable focusing and imaging at the front seats. Took me 3 days, 3 amps, 4 crossovers and ALOT of cable to get this thing wired...)

[namba209]

Originally Posted by baz eh? what? you say somin sonny ? speak up i cant hear you !!!

Egg-xact-tickle-E

[opelwasp]

i would recomend not to get paper cone anything for speakers. they dry out and get brittle. some sort of poly is the way to go and just as affordabe. I personally dont recomend running speakers off the head unit. It is better to run through an electronic crossover and then seperate amps. But then the quesion is how far do you want to go with this whole stereo thing? It is always better to run a dedicated sub for the bass so you dont over tax the rest of your speakers. a 2 or 4 chanel amp for the mids and a bass tube for the sub is easy enough to do. as far as speakers max watts doesnt mean a whole lot. 50 watts RMS is a pretty safe bet. for a sub 100 RMS. For ease of install try a Powered Bazooka 8"or 10"

[gr_diver]

Opelwasp is correct at all his thoughts!

My reccomendations were for a well affordable, yet good value (for money) stereo system. And from "2 fast 4 u"' 's posts I assumed* (maybe wrong) that he is not a very demanding listener, he just wants to be able to hear that good song decently...

After all, Ascona's are for flying, Hi-Fi's were made for quality sound reproduction. Am I right 2 Fast 4 U?

By the way, my fault, when I said paper-cones, I meant what you mean Opelwasp. We call them "paper" too because they are similar to the touch. On no way should I reccomend "paper-paper cones". Even changes in the air humidity can damage them after a while. And talk to a friend of mine that had the stock speakers (paper) in a 2001 Fiat Punto, and a leaky window sealer made them soak, tear, and blow.... Not good!!!

*I made this assumption because through uncountable conversations about car-audio, I have always found that people that are demanding in the sound quality, they stick to actual headunit performance as tested by reputable magazines in the field, or from personal preference. There is another group of people, that are not so demanding, they request just descent quality and add-ons like colour displays with animations, USB-stick support, MMC support , front line-in and such. And because 2 Fast 4 U focused on the latter about his new headunit, I assumed that he "belongs" in that category.

I hope that the previous did not sound offending 2 Fast 4 U. I belong there too... Because I think that a car is a really noisy environment, to consider for absolute sound quality after all...

[opelwasp]

If you want to reduce the sound level in your car get a Getrag, it will drop the noise level dramatically! I was amazed at how much noise the factory 4 speed makes.

The thing about speakers and head units is most people get big buck head units and keep the stock speakers which defeats the purpose of getting the high end unit. Just getting a good set of speakers can breath new life into a factory stereo. Not a 30+ year Opel one though. Now if you are going to get a high end head unit and a good set of speakers youll be fine. Good brands are Pioneer, Kenwood, Sony, Rockford Fozgate. When you start getting into the really high end like Alpine, Eclips, MB Quart, and the like, putting it in an Opel would be a waste. The cars are just too damn loud to apriciate the sound reproduction, believe me I would use them but only in a Lexus, BMW, or Caddy. It would be like buying a Bose stereo for a frat house.

Also on the subject of RMS wattages. The lower the first number is the easier the head unit will be able to run it, especially at low volumes. If it has a 2 digit number 10+ then you will net an amp to push them or you risk frying the head unit.

BTW. How much are you looking at spending for speakers. $100 per set would be more than enough. It would be a good idea if you are going to run them off the head unit to geat some bass blockers for the front speakers(100hz should be fine) so you dont blow them out. Bass is omnidirectional so it can come from anyware in the car and be heard fine. Highs are directional so placement is more important. 5 1/4" for the front and 6x9 for the rear. 3 or 4 way speakers would be best.

[2 Fast 4 U]

the only thing I want is to listen to music on the radio or from a cd while I'm driving and what I find important is that there is no deforming of the sound when I sometimes turn up the volume to about 75%, this would mean that I, if I understand you all correctly , can use speakers up to 80 - 100 Watt without damaging anything.
BTW I don't know the RMS Watts it's not mentioned in the manual.
Thank you all for your input

[opelwasp]

Deforming of sound sounds like you mean "distortion". This can be caused more than one way. By overloading the speakers with too much power or by too much signal. Too much power is easy to figure out how to prevent, but signal is not thought of very often. By too much signal I mean you can have a 50 watt source going to a 70 watt speaker, ok so far, then you turn the bass and or trebel up to +10 and you fry the speaker. You amplify that particular frequency way above the speakers limits and the speaker is toast.

[2 Fast 4 U]

On this link I found some answers, thank you gr driver :
RMS Watts = 0.707 x Watts output
so in my case 50 Watts output = 0.707 x 50 = 35.35 lets say for the speakers safety 40 Watts RMS output
Peak Watts = 2 x RMS Watts
this means for my peak = 2 x 40 = 80 Watts Peak

I've been looking for speakers and found a 3 way axial speakers:
For the back of the car:
Sony XS.F1734
40 W RMS / 200 W Peak
25 - 25000 Hz
92 dB / W / m
4 ohm
price 39.95 Euro

For the front of the car
Sony XS.F 1031
3 way coaxial
25 / 120 W
45 - 25000 Hz
88 dB / W / m
4 ohm
price 34.95 Euro

Is this a good choise for my radio? please comment!

[gr_diver]

I'd say you will be pretty happy with those rears (although they must be round)

Having them go as low as 25Hz would give you a nice "boom" that you will much appreciate! And at rather friendly prices as well....

But for the fronts, I think those are 10cm diameter, pick a pair of 13cm instead...

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by gr_diver I'd say you will be pretty happy with those rears (although they must be round)

They are Ø 170 mm

Originally Posted by gr_diver Having them go as low as 25Hz would give you a nice "boom" that you will much appreciate! And at rather friendly prices as well....

I hope that the people don't hear me coming down the road for about a mile or so, but I could turn the base down if it's to loud.

Originally Posted by gr_diver But for the fronts, I think those are 10cm diameter, pick a pair of 13cm instead...

the difference between the 103 mm and the 131 mm is the peak watts that is 140 Watts.
I thought I would take the 103 mm size because of the limited space for the speakers. I don't want to put them in the door if it's not nessary, maybe I could mount them on the mid console facing the doors

[gr_diver]

No you will not be heard coming down the road! After all, the whole car is 1mm thick steel, which makes an excelent sound deadening cabin... Such loud sound systems heard from a block away require an amp (and a big one), used to drive subs, and multiple of them usually...

As for the fronts, I know space is a factor is opels, from personal experience in my Ascona, but I would not trust 10cms for modern headunits, they will be a bottleneck. OR you can get those 10cm component speakers from Pioneer, I don't recall model code, which are little beasts, and can surpise you with their capabilities... They though have big magnets, which could make their depth demand in installation a bit difficult...

[opelwasp]

Yes, with 1200 watts I can be heard a block away. My wife hears me long before I reach the driveway.

Why did you pick round instead of 6x9's?

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by opelwasp Yes, with 1200 watts I can be heard a block away. My wife hears me long before I reach the driveway. Why did you pick round instead of 6x9's?

I don't know maybe a round hole is easier to make than a rectangular one , btw why did you choose round ones??

[2 Fast 4 U]

Ok then I'll look and see if the 131 mm speaker fits under the dash on the side of the mid console, the 170 mm isn't a problem in the back, already have 160 mm 2 way speakers there. Maybe I'll see if I can squeez the 170 mm up in front, as well, I think that would be the best solution.
Keep you all posted!!

[gr_diver]

So Opelwasp, it was you I heard drive-by yesterday (I live in Greece!!!!)!!!!

Nice setup!!!!

[opelwasp]

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U I don't know maybe a round hole is easier to make than a rectangular one , btw why did you choose round ones??

I use 6x9 for rear bass. The 6.5" are more for mid and high. Also there is no way to get 6x9's in the door and keep your windows operational. As far as round holes vs oval ones a Dremel tool make either one no problem. My 6x9 holes were first put in by the PO so I just made them look better.