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Thread: New header, need advise on removing stuck manifold

  1. #21
    Opeler runs5k's Avatar
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    I installed mine this past July. I've copied what I wrote and how I got around the problems like your having...

    Last week I installed the new shorty header from OGTS. I've decided to share my experience incase others will be trying to install this new header. First of all I would like to say that I chose this header because it retained the original exhaust and I could finally get my exhaust away from the intake. First I had to get the old setup apart. By the way, I did this installation with my car on jack stands in my own little garage. Of course, you have to remove the carb and plug the gas line hose. In my case I had to plug the two hoses to my water-choke as well.

    I knew I would need torches to heat the 6 bolts holding the exhaust pipe to the manifold so I borrowed my brother in law's set from the farm. It turned out that the torch head was way too big for the job so I headed to town and borrowed my brother's. At any rate, I used a swivel head socket on the hot nuts to remove them, but I still broke two. After that getting the intake and the exhaust out was a piece of cake. The next step would be to separate the two.

    I checked out this site and read about some of the horror stories in doing so. I decided to spray the four bolts and let them sit overnight. The next morning I took the whole affair down to my brother's garage, he's a mechanic! His boss lets me use their tools and I decided that an air gun would speed up the process that took someone on this site a day to accomplish. Besides the garage had the special socket and I added a 1/2'' adapter and let her rip with the air gun. The two that go right through the manifold came out no problem. One of the other two snapped, but came out. I destroyed the head on the fourth one.

    What to do next? I drilled the head off it, but the two pieces remained locked together. So I put the affair in a big vice and used a hacksaw to cut through the gasket until I got to the offending bolt. Then I used an air hacksaw to cut through it and voila, the two pieces were finally separated and it only took a little less than an hour. After that, I figured that the rest of the job would be piece of cake. Well, the sixth bolt next to the motor mount (by the way I bought all new bolts for the reinstallation) just wouldn't start because there was no way that i could line it up with my fingers or a socket ... NO ROOM!

    After some thought, I undid the motor mount, put a large block on my floor jack and lifted the engine enough to remove the motor mount ... problem solved! If I was to do it again, I would put a 2x4 across the engine bay and use ratchet straps to hold the engine at the motor mounts, before removing the entire cross-member. I had done that before when I replaced pistons while the engine was still in the car. Then there would have been all kinds of room to work. At any rate the rest of the job was simply reattaching everything. Also, I don't know which Weber carb everyone else has, but one carb stud is really hidden and it took me a lot of tries to get that nut started. Was it all worth it? ... YOU BET!!

    Now it sounds great and hopefully my car will run better on hot summer days. Plus I get all that extra 2 horsepower!! I also find that the car starts better after it has been running and then is stopped for a bit. Before, there didn't seem to be any gas to start the car after it had been parked for about 10 minutes. Though, if you left it for an hour or two, it would start right up. There must have been some air in the line due to the heat-soak. Is this setup a good investment? I think so ... I would do it again in a heartbeat.
    Last edited by tekenaar; 12-06-2019 at 08:14 PM.

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  3. #22
    RunOpel dpre's Avatar
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    Nice write up runs5k. Some day I plan to replace my stock with the Shorty Header from OGTS. I will keep your information for future use, thanks.
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  4. #23
    Tennessean Site Supporter hrcollinsjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opellane View Post
    Mum... Header and Manifold Bolts some are S.S. some are Zinc some are Black-oxide,,, I noted That there some kind oF
    "" Heatsink,,, Or Expansion of the header or Sprint Manifold Heats and cools down,,,, expansion that being built up

    I bolted up my new 2" S.S Head Pipe to Cast Sprint Manifold torqued to required 15 Foot lbs etc...
    Using New Stainless Steel Hex Bolts and washers
    I don't use a torque wrench in this area because of the difficulty factor plus I'm not sure how accurate it would be after a long extension with a swivel socket on the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by opellane View Post
    Then first trip to Carlisle with new exhaust... all but one manifold bolts had loosened and came out.. while driving the GT.. fell out, dropped out, missing.
    Guess I've been extremely lucky as I've had very few loosen much less fall out.

    Quote Originally Posted by opellane View Post
    ...if you snap a Stainless steel bolt you may as well toss it out.. very, very hard to remove
    I'd much rather try to get a bolt out that I had snapped by over-tightening than one that I snapped trying to remove.

    Quote Originally Posted by opellane View Post
    ...Black-oxide bolts and to Use Allen key type.....SocketCap Head Machine Screws,, and flex socket.. 18' 3/8 extenision
    plug the machine screws in to socket w/extension... and thread by hand etc,etc ... make for easy work.. setup
    There were very few socket head bolts used on our cars which means after I get under a car with the proper tools I have to crawl back out from under it and make another trip to the tool box for my Allen bit set. I also have to figure out which Allen bit to use. Past that I find that a heavier Allen socket head bit with a bolt added to a universal swivel tended to not stay adjusted at the angle I need it to be at.

    Quote Originally Posted by opellane View Post
    I recommend Re-Torque the header..head pipe bolts(6) after the first Teat ride,, make sure bolts have not loosen from heat
    Absolutely!

    Think that may have a been a nickel's worth of my opinion instead of my usual two cents worth.

    Harold

    P.S. If I'm not working on your car, do whatever makes you happy.
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  6. #24
    Tennessean Site Supporter hrcollinsjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by runs5k View Post
    I installed mine this past July. I've copied what I wrote and how I got around the problems like your having...

    After that, I figured that the rest of the job would be piece of cake. Well, the sixth bolt next to the motor mount (by the way I bought all new bolts for the reinstallation) just wouldn't start because there was no way that i could line it up with my fingers or a socket ... NO ROOM!
    Probably one of the reasons the two inboard holes on the headpipe are slotted. Start those bolts and slide the pipe in place. They're still a PITA.

    Quote Originally Posted by runs5k View Post
    Now it sounds great and hopefully my car will run better on hot summer days. Plus I get all that extra 2 horsepower!! I also find that the car starts better after it has been running and then is stopped for a bit. Before, there didn't seem to be any gas to start the car after it had been parked for about 10 minutes. Though, if you left it for an hour or two, it would start right up. There must have been some air in the line due to the heat-soak. Is this setup a good investment? I think so ... I would do it again in a heartbeat.


    Harold
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  7. #25
    2000 Post Club soybean's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by kwilford View Post
    Good advice Mike on the anti-seize when using stainless bolts or nuts. Most folks don't know this. I have replaced over 120 (one hundred and twenty!) various Opel bolts with a stainless bolt kit I bought, plus a bunch of nuts & bolts that I bought (another hundred or two) separately. Whenever possible, i coated the threads with either anti-seize or Lok-Tite. For different reasons, of course, and either help coat the threads to prevent "galling", which is the mechanism that stainless fasteners can suffer when connected to ferrous threads. I don't know that stainless-to-stainless is a similar problem, but using a thread coating can't hurt.
    Great info Keith, Mike Meir, Mike Lane, Tom, Well everyone that has contributed to this thread. A lot of Excellent information here. Gotta love this site, We're world wide. Jarrell
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  8. #26
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    FWIW if you are running a head pipe.....In my rally cars, where I had to remove the headpipe and manifold repeatedly for post-rally maintenance, I would:

    - Drill out the 4 outer holes slightly and install non-graded 1/4" bolts, lock wahsers, and nuts running through both the head pipe flange and the manifold flange, with the the nuts up. When it came time to disassemble, just twist the nuts off and put in new cheap bolts/locks/nuts for the next round. Why make things hard?
    - The 2 center bolt holes had the threads in the sprint manifold and correct bolts installed with anti-seize. They would always come out. (But I was removing them every year or so.)
    - Use a new gasket

    Never had a leak there, despite all the bashing the exhaust system took in rally use.

    May not be suitable for a show car.....

  9. #27
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    Sorry, I didn't provide all the background. This is a stock opel GT automatic. I have some good engine compartment room but becuase the head pipe is still attached to the exhaust header I can't pull it out.

    This car sat for forty years before being purchased by me.

    The header is not the shorty but the longer one from OGTS.
    It will fit I think easily once I get the old pieces out.

    I had soaked those head pipe bolts for about a month with PB and another solution. I've tried heat. The bolts that snapped seem to be fused in there tightly.
    And since there is little room to work and get something to prye in between them, my knuckles are pretty beat up...
    I can't seem to get my drill up there to drill out the bolts...

    I think the only thing I can do now is try to cut more pipe off and pull it up and out the engine compartment.

    Thanx for all the advise and posts...
    Last edited by chrislynn5; 12-07-2019 at 12:30 PM.
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  10. #28
    Senior Member The Cub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrislynn5 View Post
    Sorry, I didn't provide all the background. This is a stock opel GT automatic. I have some good engine compartment room but becuase the head pipe is still attached to the exhaust header I can't pull it out.

    This car sat for forty years before being purchased by me.

    The header is not the shorty but the longer one from OGTS.
    It will fit I think easily once I get the old pieces out.

    I had soaked those head pipe bolts for about a month with PB and another solution. I've tried heat. The bolts that snapped seem to be fused in there tightly.
    And since there is little room to work and get something to prye in between them, my knuckles are pretty beat up...
    I can't seem to get my drill up there to drill out the bolts...

    I think the only thing I can do now is try to cut more pipe off and pull it up and out the engine compartment.

    Thanx for all the advise and posts...
    That’s why I posted the picture. Make your cut there, I’m pretty sure you will be eliminating the old head pipe. Just use a reducer to tie into the 2” pipe that came with the new header/after the flange of the new header to get it down to the muffler shop. You’re going to be taking it there anyway unless you have good enough welding skills to do the job yourself. I think you may be in for a long wait on the PB Blaster method. HTH
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  11. #29
    Opeler SpringGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opellane View Post
    I recommend Re-Torque the header..head pipe bolts(6) after the first Teat ride,, make sure bolts have not loosen from heat
    I have never incorporated this into an Opel repair, but I like your style!
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  12. #30
    Spaceman GTeglman's Avatar
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    Gents,

    Edelschmeide sells this set of studs and copper nuts to attach the Y-pipe to the exhaust manifold. I guess it'll make any future disassemble a lot easier

    Cheers

    https://www.edelschmiede.com/shop/St...studs-manifold
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  13. #31
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    Ok, I did it! I found that using the tool (pic attached) to cut the pipes I was able to remove the exhaust manifold.

    Now I'm stuck again. I've read many posts on the subject but am surprised to see so much variation.
    OGTS please chime in, as I've followed the instructions and can not see how this header would wiggle into place.
    It appears to be catching on some of the rockers.
    I have both heat shields removed. I have the valve cover off.

    Help...
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    It will fit. If I remember correctly, I had to remove the hood release bar on at least the passenger side. But, eventually it did fit.

  15. #33
    Opeler Yellow73GT's Avatar
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    Loosen motor mount bolts on both sides, might give you the ability to wiggle the motor over and give you the needed space to get it in.

    You want to know real headache. Try putting a Mopar B body 74' Road Runner left side small block header into a 73' Dodge Dart with power steering. That my friend is what nightmares are made of.
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  16. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul M View Post
    It will fit. If I remember correctly, I had to remove the hood release bar on at least the passenger side. But, eventually it did fit.
    I'll look at that tomorrow. Thanx.
    Since its the weekend OGTS is not available via phone
    But I was hoping the supplier would let me know all this other stuff as the only reason I went with the header was that the head pipe was not available (and I've waited for 2 months) and that it seemed like the better solution. That I didn't know if my exhaust manifold was going to be usable since the bolts fused to it.

    The OGTS instructions seemed specific enough that I didn't think all this other stuff was needed. Like removing the engine mounts, etc...
    Ugh.

    Thanx everyone.

  17. #35
    OpelGT.com Übermoderator kwilford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrislynn5 View Post
    ....and can not see how this header would wiggle into place.
    It appears to be catching on some of the rockers.
    I have both heat shields removed. I have the valve cover off.

    Help...
    Not easy, by my experience. Sterling Rempel has an OGTS header, and when we upgraded his engine last winter, I couldn't get the header out until we had pulled the head. That was coming off in any case to get a Combo cam installed.

    We then decided to drop the engine (long story that, including installing a Getrag, lightening the flywheel, needing a new chain case, and replacing the clutch and a leaking oil pan gasket), so when we lifted the engine back into place, I made sure the header was already in position.

    In your case, unbolting the engine from the mounts, and/or actually removing the mounts from the engine cross member (to allow the engine to move to the driver's side) is likely required. Be careful of contacting the radiator and other sundry things that don't normally get in the way, but will when the engine is moved a couple of inches left and a bit up.

    Should be able to do that by either jacking from below by placing a 2x6 under the oil pan, or lifting with an engine hoist from above.

    Good luck!
    Keith Wilford
    Finishing up a bare-metal, nut & bolt rotisserie restoration of my '71 Opel GT

  18. #36
    Member guyopel's Avatar
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    If you move the engine (removing or unbolting the motor mounts) remove your fan shroud & or fan to prevent damage to radiator or fan.
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  19. #37
    3000 Post Club Site Supporter P.J. Romano's Avatar
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    Before you install the header, suggest to take an opportunity and fabricate simple heat shield to protect the engine mount. Without heat shield it will deteriorate quickly.
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    Old racers never die. They just go bench racing.

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    Tennessean Site Supporter hrcollinsjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. Romano View Post
    Before you install the header, suggest to take an opportunity and fabricate simple heat shield to protect the engine mount. Without heat shield it will deteriorate quickly.
    I realize P.J.'s manifold bolts are in place just to hold the header but I wanted to point out the obvious just in case. I believe they only used the bolts with thin washers on the earlier model cars as I've not noticed it in any of the later year cars I've worked on. They should only be used in the outboard bolt holes where they are fully supported. Bolts with thicker washers should be used where they are shared by both the intake and exhaust manifolds.

    Harold
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  21. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwilford View Post
    In your case, unbolting the engine from the mounts, and/or actually removing the mounts from the engine cross member (to allow the engine to move to the driver's side) is likely required. Be careful of contacting the radiator and other sundry things that don't normally get in the way, but will when the engine is moved a couple of inches left and a bit up.

    Should be able to do that by either jacking from below by placing a 2x6 under the oil pan, or lifting with an engine hoist from above.

    Good luck!
    Looks like the type of thinking to follow. If you jack up the engine from underneath, be careful where you put the jack... the middle of a steel pan is not a good spot. On the pan's edge, at the side rail of the block, is wiser.

    Just thinking out loud: I wonder if he could get it in by loosening the driver's side mount bolt, supporting the right side pan rail and pushing up the engine a bit to then remove the passenger side mount completely. This might allow twisting the engine over a bit towards the driver's side to get head clearance, while keeping the engine basically in place/control with the driver's side mount.
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  22. #40
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    ok, not a happy camper.
    Unfortunately I'm performing this work outside. And it gets cold and dark fast.

    Would I have purchase this header if I knew that the instructions weren't correct, not in a million years. And maybe there is just that much variation in the production to cause these issues. I don't know.

    I now have the header almost in but it's stuck. I saw that it catches on a couple more areas that I was unaware of.
    - There is a clip support for the automatic transmission pass side cooling hose. It catches right on the lip of the it. So I had to move that.
    - There is another areas on the inside engine side in which the edge is rolled and has a lip. It catches on that to.

    Removing the head release bar really helped and I thought that was going to do the trick.

    So now I've removed the two engine mount nuts (I'm assuming there are only these two?). I'll need to disconnect the fan shroud, I think that will suffice.
    Is there anything else to worry about...

    And once I find time again, as I need to work during the day, I'll try moving the engine....

    Thanx.
    Last edited by chrislynn5; 12-08-2019 at 08:49 PM.
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