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Thread: Looking for some seasoned opinions

  1. #41
    Tennessean Site Supporter hrcollinsjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by opelspyder View Post
    I third and fourth....
    After a second and discussion, if it's debatable, a vote is called for. Where did you learn parliamentary procedure?

    Harold
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  3. #42
    Just Some Dude in Jersey The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    My new 2.4 engine seized on the engine stand while it was being broken in due to debris getting in one of those sleeve bearings. It, too, felt tight when my engine guy was doing final adjustments. Machine shop did a poor job of cleaning and reassembly. I'm told that you should install each bearing one at a time and torque to spec and give the crank the hand rotation test. The crank should spin freely with no appreciable change, I'm told.
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  4. #43
    Member OrangPeEL's Avatar
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    I didn't read that you set thrust/endplay at the rear main before final torque. Maybe you did, so just a heads up before you get too much further along in assembly.
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    Result driven. Daily blessed.
    1973 GT - '73 block @2L, '71 head, 42/36mm I/E, .407" 256° Isky Torquer, Weber 38 DGES, sprint w/2", vac-delete dist., petronix Ignitor w/epoxy Flame-Thrower, 18# flywheel

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  6. #44
    Member guyopel's Avatar
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    The bugs were from the Flywheel....just saying.
    Glad you have it working.
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    Guyopel
    I have not failed - I've merely found 10,000 ways that won't work."
    ---Thomas Edison
    It's amazing what God lets man get away with when lightning is so cheap. Mark Twain

  7. #45
    Pedal Smasher Autoholic's Avatar
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    That reminds me of a time when I was working for the explosives research division of my college, EMRTC.

    I was a student engineer on a project for the FAA. Due to the low budget of this project, I wound up being the main person working on it. It needed an engineer or highly technical person, but couldn't afford the hourly rate of such a person. So, a student engineer (ie indentured servant) was needed and I was the right guy for the job. The project was to use a very high pressure chamber to test pressure vessels suitable for space. The exit side of the pressure vessel would have a burst disk, which would then send a lot of compressed nitrogen slamming into the pressure vessel to be tested. We had large canisters of nitrogen at 6,000 PSI feeding the pressure chamber, which was meant to be at 3,000 PSI. The valves that controlled nitrogen going into the pressure chamber were pneumatic. I was trying to setup the system and the pneumatic valves came from an older project. There was one valve that kept having problems. Eventually I spoke to the guy who I got them from and he told me to check the inside of it. Apparently there is this one spider local to our area, can't remember the name but it wasn't a poisonous type of spider. The guy said that these spiders are all over around our work and they like to create a nest in small, dark places.

    So, I open up the pneumatic valve and sure enough there was a small nest and a dead spider. It was near where the valve mechanism is and it prevented the valve from working correctly. I learned the true meaning of debugging that day.
    "Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn." ~Zeppi

    1973 Opel GT project car - Plans: 2.5L CIH, Weber 38 DGAS, Getrag 240, Lowered 1", Watts link, exterior color - Rainforest Green Pearl, interior color - tan

  8. #46
    Just Some Dude in Jersey The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    I have a similar tale. I bought my brother's Ford Escape and he told me it had a problem with fuel backing up the filler neck and kicking off the fuel nozzle when filling. Air wasn't able to exit the tank. An Opel member here turned out to work for Ford and he dealt with customer complaints. He was given the job of fixing the 2005 Ford Escape can't-fill-the-tank problem. It turned out that those little yellow spiders that make a nest in the corner of your wall like the smell of gasoline and really liked the size of the fuel tank vent hose. One wispy little bit of spider web was stopping air flow. I got the spider web out and put some screen over the hose end and problem solved.
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  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangPeEL View Post
    I didn't read that you set thrust/endplay at the rear main before final torque. Maybe you did, so just a heads up before you get too much further along in assembly.
    That's a great point I did not, now the FSM is well high level at best here that I can see. It just says "To do this, move the crankshaft fore and aft the limit of its travel several times (last movement fore) with the thrust bearing cap bolts finger tight." Since I don't see a more traditional style thrust bearing I assume they are referring to the rear main cap here? Doing a little forum digging came across a post by Jeff Denton https://www.opelgt.com/forums/6a-eng...tml#post191143

    How to set the the thrust bearings: put the rear cap with bearing in place, install the bolts, tightnen them up good, loosen the bolts up, then snug them to about ten foot pounds which is not very tight at all with a socket and ratchet.
    Get a helper to assist you if necessary for the next part.
    With a big screwdriver or small pry bar, find a place between the block (not a main cap) and the crankshaft that will allow you to pry (put pressure on) the crank as if you are trying to "slide" it forward. With this pressure applied, take a big hammer and hit a block of wood held against the rear flange of the crankshaft. Smack it good. Now do the same thing to "slide" the crank aft, by prying safely in the other direction and smacking the front of the crank. The main cap is being slightly moved by the crankshaft's thrust surface contacting the thrust surface of the bearing held in place by the cap. The movement is limited by the crank's same thrust surface contacting the thrust surface of the upper bearing in the block, which will not move.
    Go back and forth a few times if you want, the more the better. You can use feeler gages to measure your thrust gap each time, but I use a dial indicator to "see" the crank move back and forth. Stop when you know the cap is not moving back or forth at all, the gap is consistent front and rear every time.
    Now you can torque the rear main cap. The seal was installed before any of this, but this is the time to adjust it flush with the block as described before.
    With a big screwdriver or small pry bar, find a place between the block (not a main cap) and the crankshaft that will allow you to pry (put pressure on) the crank as if you are trying to "slide" it forward. With this pressure applied, take a big hammer and hit a block of wood held against the rear flange of the crankshaft. Smack it good.
    I think I can visualize this; I need to pry the crank from the back towards the front then whack on the rear driving the crank more forward. Then I reverse and apply pressure rearward and whack it rearward as well.

    You can use feeler gages to measure your thrust gap each time, but I use a dial indicator to "see" the crank move back and forth.
    This was a part I was a little fuzzy on; where am I measuring with feeler gauges? Between the crank and the rear main cap?

    Stop when you know the cap is not moving back or forth at all, the gap is consistent front and rear every time.
    So when I'm whacking the crank ends it's the cap that will be moving even though its lightly torqued down? The FSM indicates the last movement should be forward before stopping and tightening down. Also should all of this be done with just the rear main on then torqued down followed by the rest of the caps?

    Now you can torque the rear main cap. The seal was installed before any of this, but this is the time to adjust it flush with the block
    Should I be installing the rear seal before this process? The FSM places the rear main seal installation after the brief blurb on the thrust.

  10. #48
    Member OrangPeEL's Avatar
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    Only rear main cap loose, yes. Fore last, yes...and don't be too shy with that. You're just flushing/truing thrust surfaces of rear main shell halves so they share equal load when clutch is depressed (I use a heavy rubber mallet I pilfered from spoke wheel knockoffs on an MGB project). I was able to confirm endplay with a narrow feeler through casting slots in rear main. Save rear seal installation til engine is off stand and/or you have room to press it in fully and square.
    Result driven. Daily blessed.
    1973 GT - '73 block @2L, '71 head, 42/36mm I/E, .407" 256° Isky Torquer, Weber 38 DGES, sprint w/2", vac-delete dist., petronix Ignitor w/epoxy Flame-Thrower, 18# flywheel

  11. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangPeEL View Post
    Save rear seal installation til engine is off stand and/or you have room to press it in fully and square.
    Is this because of a traditional engine stand mounting or another reason? I ask because I've got the block mounted via the drivers side on my stand so the rear is fully accessible.

  12. #50
    1000 Post Club Vincent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCSteve View Post
    Is this because of a traditional engine stand mounting or another reason? I ask because I've got the block mounted via the drivers side on my stand so the rear is fully accessible.
    Probably why he said that, you obviously won't have that issue...
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  13. #51
    Member OrangPeEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent View Post
    Probably why he said that, you obviously won't have that issue...
    yep- just in case if it was longitudinally mounted

    PS- sometimes OGTS stocks rear main seals that are cut down a little and moves the seal lip contact inboard of the wear groove in crank~ if needed.
    Result driven. Daily blessed.
    1973 GT - '73 block @2L, '71 head, 42/36mm I/E, .407" 256° Isky Torquer, Weber 38 DGES, sprint w/2", vac-delete dist., petronix Ignitor w/epoxy Flame-Thrower, 18# flywheel

  14. #52
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    Several ways to check which bearing is tight. Put plasti gage in every 90 degrees apart and torque bearings. One or more should be tight because I am suspecting one of your bearings is orbiting. Another is to tighten one bearing at a time till you see which one is the troubled one that is orbiting. Hope that helps.

  15. #53
    Pedal Smasher Autoholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gpklonis View Post
    Several ways to check which bearing is tight. Put plasti gage in every 90 degrees apart and torque bearings. One or more should be tight because I am suspecting one of your bearings is orbiting. Another is to tighten one bearing at a time till you see which one is the troubled one that is orbiting. Hope that helps.
    I believe it's been solved. There was a bug in his engine. Literally.

    Sometimes debugging a problem is just that. We always look for what did I do wrong? When it's just nature screwing with you.
    "Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn." ~Zeppi

    1973 Opel GT project car - Plans: 2.5L CIH, Weber 38 DGAS, Getrag 240, Lowered 1", Watts link, exterior color - Rainforest Green Pearl, interior color - tan

  16. #54
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    Had a night cap last night, literally took the caps back off and set the thrust endplay using the info earlier in this thread. Was pretty straight forward, I will admit though it was a bit awkward holding the prybar and piece of wood with one arm and whacking it with the other. I did it nine times (four x front and back & one final forward). Then put the rest of the caps back on and torqued to 36 then 72 like before. Wow I thought it turned easy before! It now takes virtually no effort to turn it, dropped my torque wrench down to 5 ft lbs (lowest setting and couldn't trigger it) I just might have to bust out the in-lb one tonight to see.

    Now expecting the conrod bearings likely tomorrow or Sat; any gotcha's there to be aware of? already have the rings installed and gapped, just need to rotate them in place per the manual ie stagger the gaps. Plans are to clean cylinder walls then lightly lube with dino oil well as the rings & wrist pin. Rotate each to TDC, install and plastigage the bearings within the FSM range of .0006 - .0025 in. Torque to 36 ft-lbs. then rinse repeat.

    Anything I'm missing here or sage advice? Hoping the head will be done at the machine shop as well today or tomorrow so this build can start rockin and rollin.

  17. #55
    Opel Rallier since 1977
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    That's funny on the bug...... but that's why to check things over and over. Always good to find the reason. Your crank 'spin test' now sounds like it should.

    As for cleaning the cylinder walls, use ATF. Put a generous amount on a paper towel, (NOT a linty shop towel) and work it around and around, top to bottom and back. You'll be amazed how much crud will get pulled out. Keep cleaning with ATF until an ATF wetted paper towel comes out after a wipe around a cylinder with no new dirt or crud on it. Then lube and proceed.

    ATF has a very high level of detergent in it so is great for this job.

    You got your ring compressor all ready?

    And is the rear seal in too? I always drop it in with the crank; no chance to ruin it that way.
    Last edited by Manta Rallier; 1 Week Ago at 08:56 AM.
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  18. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manta Rallier View Post
    That's funny on the bug...... but that's why to check things over and over. Always good to find the reason. Your crank 'spin test' now sounds like it should.

    As for cleaning the cylinder walls, use ATF. Put a generous amount on a paper towel, (NOT a linty shop towel) and work it around and around, top to bottom and back. You'll be amazed how much crud will get pulled out. Keep cleaning with ATF until an ATF wetted paper towel comes out after a wipe around a cylinder with no new dirt or crud on it. Then lube and proceed.

    ATF has a very high level of detergent in it so is great for this job.

    You got your ring compressor all ready?

    And is the rear seal in too? I always drop it in with the crank; no chance to ruin it that way.
    Thanks I do remember reading that ATF was good for this, but with learning so many new things on this rebuild it's getting tough to stuff it all in the brain cave. AFA the ring compressor, thats affirmative got one all ready to go and plan on putting the rear main seal in after I get the pistons installed. I debated doing it last night but thought just in case something got screwed up or required the crank back out it was better safe than sorry.

  19. #57
    Opel Rallier since 1977
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    OK, on the 1-2 occasions where I put in the rear seal near the end, I pull the rear main cap off and work the seal under the crank on just half. FWIW....just is easier and avoids the chances of distorting the seal. I do/did the same on my Mitsubishi 2.6L rally engines with the same 1 piece seal type....
    Last edited by Manta Rallier; 1 Week Ago at 10:27 AM.

  20. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manta Rallier View Post
    That's funny on the bug...... but that's why to check things over and over. Always good to find the reason. Your crank 'spin test' now sounds like it should.

    As for cleaning the cylinder walls, use ATF. Put a generous amount on a paper towel, (NOT a linty shop towel) and work it around and around, top to bottom and back. You'll be amazed how much crud will get pulled out. Keep cleaning with ATF until an ATF wetted paper towel comes out after a wipe around a cylinder with no new dirt or crud on it. Then lube and proceed.

    ATF has a very high level of detergent in it so is great for this job.

    You got your ring compressor all ready?

    And is the rear seal in too? I always drop it in with the crank; no chance to ruin it that way.
    I clean the block and head with engine degreaser and brushes after I get them home from the machine shop, after that I use a pressure washer and then the parts are dried with compressed air and towel paper and finally everything is wiped with an oily cloth to prevent rusting.

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