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Thread: 40DCOE SSD on a 2.0 Jetting

  1. #121
    Opeler SpringGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knorm65 View Post
    Yes I was thinking the same thing. I’ll have to make it though. It doesn’t look like anyone has made one. Probably not many cars with a racing carb and ac lol.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    How about a vacuum cut off switch for the compressor clutch. It cuts the ac off when under load / passing, etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3Pyek_8FC4


    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1...SABEgJtuPD_BwE
    Last edited by SpringGT; 08-31-2018 at 03:11 AM.

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    Can Opeler Knorm65's Avatar
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    40DCOE SSD on a 2.0 Jetting

    Just a little check in. Since the last post I sourced a larger accelerator pump jet. Must suppliers only sell up to 60 and my drill set doesnít have the right size to drill one out so I found a 70 pump jet. All hesitation is completely gone. It drives better than a Weber 32/36 and has much better power and response. I also went one size richer on the mains and 2 sizes richer on the air jets.

    All semblance of fuel efficiency is now gone, but Iím getting perfect 12.5 AFR at WOT across the power band. At highway cruise itís a bit too rich at about 11.8-12.5 AFR, but itís worth it for the amazing top end performance. My MPG this week was 16.5MPG lol. But that includes 2 autocross events and going 90 on the highway for 50 miles.

    Iím still fighting issues with idle jets occasionally getting clogged after very spirited acceleration and cornering. I might know what is going on though. My air filter doesnít cover up the fuel bowl vent. I pulled a piece of grass out of my idle jet the other day. The only way that could possibly get there is through that vent. I might make some kind of brass filter or something to thread in that 1/2Ē vent hole
    Last edited by Knorm65; 04-13-2019 at 01:09 PM.
    "Mira," 1970 Opel GT Working ARA AC, European 2.0L and Midikit
    "Kara," 1972 Opel GT Targa, Welded Doors, Rhinolined, 40 DCOE SSD

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    3000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    Wow
    that sounds more like a Commodore GS,not the room but the thirst
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  6. #124
    Can Opeler Knorm65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    Wow
    that sounds more like a Commodore GS,not the room but the thirst
    Sheís a thirsty girl! I usually get around 18MPG though. I could probably get 20 if I drove the speed limit, but thereís no fun in that!
    "Mira," 1970 Opel GT Working ARA AC, European 2.0L and Midikit
    "Kara," 1972 Opel GT Targa, Welded Doors, Rhinolined, 40 DCOE SSD

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    Opeler SpringGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knorm65 View Post
    All semblance of fuel efficiency is now gone, but Iím getting perfect 12.5 AFR at WOT across the power band. At highway cruise itís a bit too rich at about 11.8-12.5 AFR, but itís worth it for the amazing top end performance. My MPG this week was 16.5MPG lol. But that includes 2 autocross events and going 90 on the highway for 50 miles.
    It is too bad that you can't get adjustable jets so that you could lean out your cruise mixture like with an aircraft engine. With an AFR meter and an adjustable jet you could really fine tune your fuel consumption going down the highway. Wishful thinking!

  8. #126
    Can Opeler Knorm65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpringGT View Post
    It is too bad that you can't get adjustable jets so that you could lean out your cruise mixture like with an aircraft engine. With an AFR meter and an adjustable jet you could really fine tune your fuel consumption going down the highway. Wishful thinking!
    Man that would be cool! Although I am runing rich enough to possibly run a tiny bit of boost and that would lean things out a bit.

    I could lean out highway cruise by drilling a couple holes in the transition are by the throttle plates or by using something called a Venturi fountain tube that the DCOE tuning group came up with.
    I just havenít gotten around to messing with it. Iím fine with my average 18mpg. Still better than my 2018 truck.
    "Mira," 1970 Opel GT Working ARA AC, European 2.0L and Midikit
    "Kara," 1972 Opel GT Targa, Welded Doors, Rhinolined, 40 DCOE SSD

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    Opeler SylCity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    I have also here the tune up jetting for a total stock 2.0 with stock cam and a single 40 DCOE

    30mm choke tube
    6mm venturis
    145 Main
    155 Air correctors
    50F9 Idle
    F16 Emulsion
    45 Pump
    I just wanted to say,. thank you! (And everybody else in this thread for that matter)

    This seems to be a great baseline tune. (I still run F11 Emulsion tubes atm btw as I am still waiting for the F16's to arrive,. )



    Thanks to you guys I found the confidence to order the parts and replace the Solex 35PdsiT I have been running for the past few years.



    Its funny though,. Even though I am very happy with the SSD setup, (more low end torque, and much better throttle response, not to mention the sound... damn,.. the sound) The engine was more rev happy with the Solex,.
    I do realize this is probably due to the choke size,. I find it still a bit curious,. specially since there is still an overall inlet/choke size increase of 25mm. (Or do I see this the wrong way?)

    Anyhow,. once again, thanks for all the shared information! And greetings from the Netherlnds.

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    Just Some Dude in Jersey The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Yes, I've read that the choke size and the nature of side drafts can cause acceleration at the top end to abruptly stop when maximum fuel and air hit their limit.

    Generally it's a trade off between good low speed performance and high speed performance. My 2.4 has all the power I'll need on the highway, but most of my driving is done at low speed, so my emphasis was on good running when transitioning from idle and how it behaves in traffic. So my cam and carb is set up for that.
    Last edited by The Scifi Guy; 06-06-2019 at 08:52 AM.

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    Oha Sylvian
    That is a nice City.In the past I own a 1.6 SR as a Winterfest Model in turkis color and black/white
    Recaros.I give it in trust for a new Kadett D GTE in 1984.

    Welcome here

    Norbert

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    Quote Originally Posted by SylCity View Post
    Its funny though,. Even though I am very happy with the SSD setup, (more low end torque, and much better throttle response, not to mention the sound... damn,.. the sound) The engine was more rev happy with the Solex,.
    I do realize this is probably due to the choke size,. I find it still a bit curious,. specially since there is still an overall inlet/choke size increase of 25mm. (Or do I see this the wrong way?)
    30 mm venturies are likely restricting engine breathing at higher rpm. I would suggest 34 mm or at least 32 mm. Venturies (chokes) are easy to replace, so you can play until you are happy with the performance.
    Old racers never die. They just go bench racing.

  13. #131
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    40DCOE SSD on a 2.0 Jetting

    Ok I had a huge eureka today. I think Iím going to make a new thread with all the things Iíve learned in the past couple months. Playing with tunings of a Weber 40 DCOE on my 2.0L and my 1.9L.
    In the mean time this might help a couple of you guys.

    Our engines need f2 idle jets! The f9 and f8 just donít cut it!
    Iíve figured out the idle jets have a massive effect on pretty much everything at cruise regardless of speed. Even 4500rpm highway cruise is using mainly the idle jet circuit. How do I know? I put tiny main jets in that are almost non functional and tested my theory. Main jets do almost nothing unless you are actively accelerating. Air jets do almost nothing until you are at 5500rpm at WOT.

    So the idle jets are everything! Throw out the number of turns on the mixture screw. It doesnít matter. 3 turns out is just a suggestion that is usually ok.

    Iíve been running 40f9 idles in my 2.0L and 40f8 in my 1.9L for a little while. Idle was perfect, but cruise was rich (still tan plugs but bad for mileage).

    Thereís a reason why there are 2 numbers on the idle jets. The 40 means .40mm fuel hole and the f9 is a small air hole on the side.
    In my observation the fuel number has the most effect at idle. The air corrector number has increasing effect with rpm.

    For giggles I went from a 40f9 on my red GT to a 55f2. And on my orange GT I went from a 40f8 to a 50f2. The f2 has a massive air hole in the side that lets in a huge amount of air.

    My highway cruise leaned out so much itís running more smooth and leaner than my Weber 38 did and it worked on both cars! Nothing else changed except the mixture screw settings. Iím 4 or 5 turns out on both cars to get 12-12.5 AFR at idle. My cars like rich idles 4 and 5 is too many turns according to Weber, but the jets are perfect, the idle is perfect. I will never change the idle jets again. My Opel engines are perfectly set up for f2 idle jets! Iím so happy.

    If you are running f9s right now I highly reccomend raising your fuel jet size by 10-15 and going to f2 jets. Completely ignore the mixture screw amount, just turn it out until it idles best and enjoy never running too rich at cruise.

    Iíve tried a lot to get my car running this good!
    Last edited by Knorm65; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:11 AM.
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    "Mira," 1970 Opel GT Working ARA AC, European 2.0L and Midikit
    "Kara," 1972 Opel GT Targa, Welded Doors, Rhinolined, 40 DCOE SSD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knorm65 View Post
    Ok I had a huge eureka today. I think Iím going to make a new thread with all the things Iíve learned in the past couple months. Playing with tunings of a Weber 40 DCOE on my 2.0L and my 1.9L.
    In the mean time this might help a couple of you guys.

    Our engines need f2 idle jets! The f9 and f8 just donít cut it!
    Iíve figured out the idle jets have a massive effect on pretty much everything at cruise regardless of speed. Even 4500rpm highway cruise is using mainly the idle jet circuit. How do I know? I put tiny main jets in that are almost non functional and tested my theory. Main jets do almost nothing unless you are actively accelerating. Air jets do almost nothing until you are at 5500rpm at WOT.

    So the idle jets are everything! Throw out the number of turns on the mixture screw. It doesnít matter. 3 turns out is just a suggestion that is usually ok.

    Iíve been running 40f9 idles in my 2.0L and 40f8 in my 1.9L for a little while. Idle was perfect, but cruise was rich (still tan plugs but bad for mileage).

    Thereís a reason why there are 2 numbers on the idle jets. The 40 means .40mm fuel hole and the f9 is a small air hole on the side.
    In my observation the fuel number has the most effect at idle. The air corrector number has increasing effect with rpm.

    For giggles I went from a 40f9 on my red GT to a 55f2. And on my orange GT I went from a 40f8 to a 50f2. The f2 has a massive air hole in the side that lets in a huge amount of air.

    My highway cruise leaned out so much itís running more smooth and leaner than my Weber 38 did and it worked on both cars! Nothing else changed except the mixture screw settings. Iím 4 or 5 turns out on both cars to get 12-12.5 AFR at idle. My cars like rich idles 4 and 5 is too many turns according to Weber, but the jets are perfect, the idle is perfect. I will never change the idle jets again. My Opel engines are perfectly set up for f2 idle jets! Iím so happy.

    If you are running f9s right now I highly reccomend raising your fuel jet size by 10-15 and going to f2 jets. Completely ignore the mixture screw amount, just turn it out until it idles best and enjoy never running too rich at cruise.

    Iíve tried a lot to get my car running this good!
    It never ceases to amaze me how different the side draft gets tuned compared to what Iím used to, my 2.0 has no problems with lean cruise, no flat spots, the split second power is needed it jumps down to into the 12.5:1 afr. range. I was surprised to learn that 14.5:1 makes only 2% less power than 12.5:1, there are other reasons under heavy load you need to be at or under 13.1:1. Thereís something to be said though for leaning out a tad, the more gas the merrier just ainít so. Just curious what your average AFR at cruise now and what it was before?

  15. #133
    Can Opeler Knorm65's Avatar
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    40DCOE SSD on a 2.0 Jetting

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cub View Post
    It never ceases to amaze me how different the side draft gets tuned compared to what Iím used to, my 2.0 has no problems with lean cruise, no flat spots, the split second power is needed it jumps down to into the 12.5:1 afr. range. I was surprised to learn that 14.5:1 makes only 2% less power than 12.5:1, there are other reasons under heavy load you need to be at or under 13.1:1. Thereís something to be said though for leaning out a tad, the more gas the merrier just ainít so. Just curious what your average AFR at cruise now and what it was before?
    I can attest by my dyno day that on a GT even 12.5:1 compared to 13:1 at WOT makes much more than a 2% difference. The CIH engine has a problem with scavenging too much (according to rally bob) and must run very rich to make power. If I understood correctly the CIH actually pulls raw fuel into the exhaust during overlap which means we need to greatly increase how much fuel we put into the engine. In other words 13:1 on our AFR gauge might be actually leaner in the combustion chamber since the exhaust is stealing our soup! This also explains why cylinder 2 and 3 are always leaner on the plugs and run hotter! Crazy stuff.
    A big V8 probably only loses 2%, but a reverse flow four cylinder is a different animal.

    I was at 10.8:1 average (in the summer) at 75mph on the highway. Now Iím at 13:1 at that speed. At 45mph I was at 11.8:1 now Iím at 13.5:1 any leaner and it wouldnít drive. Opels like no leaner than 13:1 ever in my experience, but it seems to be doing ok at 13.5 for now!
    Last edited by Knorm65; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:55 AM.
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    "Kara," 1972 Opel GT Targa, Welded Doors, Rhinolined, 40 DCOE SSD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knorm65 View Post
    Iíve figured out the idle jets have a massive effect on pretty much everything at cruise regardless of speed. Even 4500rpm highway cruise is using mainly the idle jet circuit. How do I know? I put tiny main jets in that are almost non functional and tested my theory. Main jets do almost nothing unless you are actively accelerating. Air jets do almost nothing until you are at 5500rpm at WOT.
    This is against any carburetor theory (not only DCOE). Idle jets should have no influence after some 2500 rpm, not to mention that idle jets do not have a possibilty to create quality mix (no emulsion tubes). Kyler, something isn't right here.
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    Those are nice numbers Kyler! According to David Vizard on that little video clip that comes up all the time on YouTube, an old school carb and car tuner 13.5 straight across is fantastic. After multiple conversations with the guys at Pierce and Redline this is my understanding on the idle circuit, itís all contingent on the throttle plate positioning more so than the RPMS. I can be at cruise on the highway at 4000 RPMS, if my throttle plates are not open much at all which is where my car likes to be most of the time in that situation Iím leaning mostly on the idle and progression circuit, as the throttle plate or plates open the main comes in more and more depending on how much throttle. I donít think itís an all or nothing scenario. I would think idle jetting and the amount of feed (quantity and size of the metered feed holes) from the progression circuit greatly influence the cruise air fuel ratio. Cam profiles, what a game changer, certainly with the more aggressive cam I can understand the scavenging part I suppose what works best for a street cam doesnít work well at all for a racing cam that said isnít our AFR reading the still the final result of combustion? I havenít much tuning experience yet with different cams.

  18. #136
    Just Some Dude in Jersey The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. Romano View Post
    This is against any carburetor theory (not only DCOE). Idle jets should have no influence after some 2500 rpm, not to mention that idle jets do not have a possibilty to create quality mix (no emulsion tubes). Kyler, something isn't right here.
    I was also told by my tuner that the idle jets are a major component of the mix at highway speeds. I think I remember him saying that they were on all the time.

    Here's an experiment: With the engine running at idle, you can remove the Main jets entirely and nothing will happen. If the idle jets have little or no influence past 2500, then rev the engine to 2500-3000 and then remove the idle jets and see what happens.

    But does idle jet size have as much of a part to play as idle mix. Tailored to my purposes, my tuner opted to go with high idle mix, early timing, very small throttle opening at idle.

  19. #137
    Can Opeler Knorm65's Avatar
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    40DCOE SSD on a 2.0 Jetting

    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. Romano View Post
    This is against any carburetor theory (not only DCOE). Idle jets should have no influence after some 2500 rpm, not to mention that idle jets do not have a possibilty to create quality mix (no emulsion tubes). Kyler, something isn't right here.
    Well I have to disagree based on my research. Most of what Iíve read says that maintaining cruise at almost any speed requires very little throttle input. The idle mixture needle and some of the progression holes are all thatís showing at cruise. Both of those are fed through the idle jet. Of course the main jets do a little at cruise, but as Iíve stated before I can drive my car with main jets that are 50 too small with no consequences at cruise.

    The emulsion tubes donít do anything until you have a very high velocity of air going through the aux Venturi like at mid throttle and above. Also the fuel level has to drop to reveal the holes in the emulsion tube so you have to be using some fuel and pulling the fuel through the Venturi quickly. The dribble through the aux at 3500 rpm steady throttle doesnít have a significant effect. Weíre talking .5AFR max unless you have your float level wrong or are using a custom aux Venturi size to bring the main circuit in sooner (which you can do.)

    The idle jets creat just as good of a mix as the main jets do. They have their own air holes and fuel holes too.

    Keith at the sidedraft tuning forum who creates tons of tuning parts and has written engineering papers on the DCOE even completely deletes emulsion tubes and uses a blank tube he created to replace them. I tried this but couldnít get my float level just right for them at the time. It did run just fine, it was just a bit lean at WOT below 3000rpm because my fuel level wasnít activating the main circuit with such low airflow through the Aux



    In other words you canít tune highway cruise with the mixture screw or the main jets. It relies on the fuel level and the idle jets and progression hole drilling sizes
    Last edited by Knorm65; 2 Weeks Ago at 01:17 PM.
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    3000 Post Club Site Supporter P.J. Romano's Avatar
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    Well, it is still against basic carburetor theory but if you are happy with that set-up, good for you. It would be good to keep us updated how is the engine running at other than highway cruise regimes when the butterflies are more open, like street driving or uphill climb.
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    Just Some Dude in Jersey The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Side draft stuff.jpg

    Ha! It's amazing how many extra useless parts you can accumulate by just setting up one car with side drafts. Once you have it perfect, you never need to change your hardware again and you are then left with 10-20 extra variations of every gizmo in the carb that you will never use.

    As far as how my car performed after tuning: It was perfect at every speed level and situation. Just friggin' amazing that such a thing was possible with my slightly exotic set up.

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    40DCOE SSD on a 2.0 Jetting

    Quote Originally Posted by P.J. Romano View Post
    Well, it is still against basic carburetor theory but if you are happy with that set-up, good for you. It would be good to keep us updated how is the engine running at other than highway cruise regimes when the butterflies are more open, like street driving or uphill climb.
    I donít see how itís against carburetor theory. Weber designed it to work this way. Otherwise why would the progression holes be fed from the idle jet and not the main jet.

    Iíve raced autocross and driven 150 miles on the setup already. Itís perfect. No stumble unless Iím rolling backwards down a hill. Air fuel ratio has rapid variations. As long as rpms are above 2000 (when my advance kicks in enough) you can slam the throttle and squeak the tires in first and if you clutch kick it will in second too. Uphill is fine. Uphill triggers the main circuit and I drop a bit below 12.5AFR if getting near lugging. Average 12.5 uphill though. Street driving is fun! Lots of low end power. Easy to rev match downshifts. Same AFR as highway. When accelerating itís the same as uphill.
    Iím a bit lean above 6000rpm WOT but I donít think itís worth buying a new air corrector.
    At the track performance is great! I go rich under partial throttle when cornering. I havenít figured that out yet. I suspect my 00 accelerator pump exhaust works for the street, but with constant throttle variation at the track causes issues.

    My current tune is
    F16
    140 main (could use 145 but need to confirm on dyno If 12:1 is better than 12.5)
    135 air (need a 125, 135 works with 145 main)
    55f2 idle
    32mm choke
    00 pump ex (maybe need 50 for track and 00 for street/drag)
    70 acc pump
    4.5mm aux
    Last edited by Knorm65; 2 Weeks Ago at 03:55 PM.
    "Mira," 1970 Opel GT Working ARA AC, European 2.0L and Midikit
    "Kara," 1972 Opel GT Targa, Welded Doors, Rhinolined, 40 DCOE SSD

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