Difference between Opel and BMW Getrag 240 5-Speeds - Page 2
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Thread: Difference between Opel and BMW Getrag 240 5-Speeds

  1. #21
    Member bello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNotigan View Post
    The manufacturers who employ the Getrag 240 have specific transmission cases to fit their engine application. On the Opel 4 speed, the bell housing can be removed separate from the transmission gearcase. On the 240 Getrag, the bellhousing and case are one peice.

    I am under the impression that the internals of the transmission are the same. But I have yet to come across a thread here where a person has proven this to be true in real life applications; ie, using a BMW or Volvo Getrag 240 transmission internal gear assembly and assembling it in the Opel-specific case.
    Hi All- Yes and no... The cases are the same- in the center- the architecture of the bellhousing and the tail housing are different. you guessed it- to fit a BMW or Opel engine and crossmember attachment. The input shaft diameter and tooth counts are different, as is the pilot bearing end OD. You could put a BMW shaft in place of the Opel by using a BMW clutch disc and sleeving the pilot bearing end to the Opel diameter- I believe it's 10mm BMW, 15? mm Opel... The tailshaft is different on the BMW, as they use a flex coupling instead of a U-joint. Last, the BMW does not have a speedometer connection- they read vehicle speed at the differential. Some of this I know first-hand, the rest I learned from Jim Blanton, the BMW Transmission and Differential Guru at Performance Gearing, Inc... he has done a couple of transmissions and one LSD for me. After all these years of racing, I've settled on a e36 318i or 325i BMW transmission, with an adapter & some funny parts to make it all fit- a labor of love, to be sure, but it is a 1.00:1 fifth gear ratio, (Needed in racing) not an overdrive 5th, but they are plentiful and inexpensive in wrecking yards.... So there you have it! Ernie Bello
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    4,000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    I think you mean a BMW E30 5speed and not E36
    But I think too, the E36 never used Getrag 240
    Maybe Getrag 265
    Last edited by norbertone.gt371; 01-26-2019 at 09:26 PM.


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    Member bello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    I think you mean a BMW E30 5speed and not E36
    But I think too, the E36 never used Getrag 240
    Maybe Getrag 265
    Hello Norbert- The BMW e30, both 318 and 325 (in the USA) used funfgang, Overdrive transmissions, with approximately a .80 5th gear ratio- great for highway driving, not so good for racing- you lose too many rpm (and PS/HP) when you go to 5th gear.... I do not use those- I use a Getrag 250 (with an adapter kit) in my 2.0 Kadett C GT/E (that I brought in from Germany in 1985) The Getrag is a S5D 250 G- used in the e36 318 and 325- it has 4.23/2.52/1.66/1.22/1.00 ratios- which, except for 1st gear, are very very similar to the Getrag 231 & 235 Sportgetriebe "dog-leg" transmissions...or the old ZF Sportgetriebe box; the 250 is inexpensive and easy to find. A good transmission, too- they never "blow up" but the synchros wear out..... so you deal with that every 3 or 4 seasons...! About the Getrag 265- they are very heavy and, frankly, I did not have very good luck with it.... I also have Getrag 235 Sport which is perfect! but I'm afraid to use it- cannot replace it if i break it! Maybe I'll sell it to someone who is not going to race it... Ernie Bello
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    4,000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    Ernie
    I think most of the Opelers are not Racers.Most they want a 5th gear with 0.80 or 0.79 ratio for smooth cruising at the freeways or Autobahn.
    The simplest way is a Opel 240 Getrag for most of us.I think the T5 solution is also verry good!
    But I know since 1986 that the Alfa Romeo Giulia Super 5speed can also be used.
    Okay the Alfa one need also a 27mm Adapterplate to fit the 4 speed Opel bell and a custom driveshaft!
    The shifter will be in correct position for the GT.But the speedo cable needs a special worm gearbox extra!

    So finaly I would take a T5 as FirstOpel have done!
    Last edited by norbertone.gt371; 01-27-2019 at 12:23 AM.
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    Member bello's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    Ernie
    I think most of the Opelers are not Racers.Most they want a 5th gear with 0.80 or 0.79 ratio for smooth
    crousing at the freeways or Autobahn.
    The simplest way is a Opel 240 Getrag for most of us.I think the T5 solution is also verry good!
    But I know since 1986 that the Alfa Romeo Giulia Super 5speed can also be used.
    Okay the Alfa one need also a 27mm Adapterplate to fit the 4 speed Opel bell and a custom driveshaft!
    The shifter will be in correct position for the GT.But the speedo cable needs a special worm gearbox extra!

    So finaly I would take a T5 as FirstOpel have done!
    Norbert- You are correct. I am one of maybe 10 or 20? Opel Racers in the US.... Tell me more about the Alfa Romeo gearbox...that's a new one for me! Ernie

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    Quote Originally Posted by bello View Post
    Norbert- You are correct. I am one of maybe 10 or 20? Opel Racers in the US.... Tell me more about the Alfa Romeo gearbox...that's a new one for me! Ernie
    Back in 1986 when the GT scene begin to swap on 5 speeds the Getrag 240 was much to expensive to get.
    So a Opeler in Austria goes the way with the Alfa Romeo Giulia Super 5 speed.This transmission was
    a verry strong one and used in Alfas up to 130 Hp.
    The Alfa trans have also a Bellhousing what can removed.So it needs a Adapter plate to fit it behind the cih bellhousing.
    It is all the same as you must doe when install the T5 trans.

    But I think there are also not so many Alfa transmissions whats have still alive.The Giulias was build 1963
    to 1989 I think!

    https://www.ebay.de/i/113324211295?chn=ps


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    Ooh I like the Alfa option. I’m looking for a 1:1 5th gear, but want helical cut gears. I have to look into the Alfa. The ZF 5-speeds with helical gears cost a fortune!
    "Mira," 1970 Opel GT Working ARA AC, European 2.0L and Midikit
    "Kara," 1972 Opel GT Targa, Welded Doors, Rhinolined, 40 DCOE SSD, Working GM AC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knorm65 View Post
    Ooh I like the Alfa option. I’m looking for a 1:1 5th gear, but want helical cut gears. I have to look into the Alfa. The ZF 5-speeds with helical gears cost a fortune!
    What's the point in a 1:1 fifth?

    Most transmissions have a 1:1 4th. The Opel does.
    Opel GTs are not GM products
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    Difference between Opel and BMW Getrag 240 5-Speeds

    Quote Originally Posted by First opel 1981 View Post
    What's the point in a 1:1 fifth?

    Most transmissions have a 1:1 4th. The Opel does.
    It means it has a closer ratio. Good for more fun

    I don’t mind cruising at 4000rpms on the highway. My motor can handle it. I just want a stronger trans and a Quaife LSD to handle it long term.
    "Mira," 1970 Opel GT Working ARA AC, European 2.0L and Midikit
    "Kara," 1972 Opel GT Targa, Welded Doors, Rhinolined, 40 DCOE SSD, Working GM AC

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNotigan View Post
    Lt Colombo moment: The Getrag 240's made so popular in the GT's all came from Europe in whatever Opel it resided in at that time. I'm curious too, as to whoever was the first person to make this installation and got the Opel GT Getrag ball rolling. That person needs to go into the Opel GT Hall of Fame!

    Gil at Opel GT Source has been getting them for a very long time now and making kits for the GT installation made so much easier for the home enthusiast....
    When I called him last year about one, the only one he had in stock was a rebuilt one, better and more expensive than a used one so I snapped it up b/c I was afraid there wouldn't be anymore for a long time. And now I see people having trouble finding them. My heart beats with joy now, knowing that I made the right decision. I do hope y'all find the 5 speed of your dreams eventually.
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    Over on YouTube, I see a lot of Ford Mustang GT's crashing out at those Cars and Coffee events. It usually involves a right hand turn onto some main street or highway; followed by an application of full throttle for the enjoyment of the specatators nearby and the usual end result of the Mustang GT getting squirrely and crashing into (1) a nearby guardrail if it swerves left at full throttle or (2) the concrete curbing alongside said roadway on the right as the GT swerved to the right....

    That's alot of good 5 Speed Tremec's sitting in our junkyards.

    Not to mention, a great selection of these transmissions, brand spanking-new found within the pages of any Summit or Jegs or Speedway Motors catalogs.


    Repair parts for the Getrag 240 appear to be few and far between.

    The ideal remedy is for our favorite Opel vendor to create a package for the Tremec as he has done for years with the 240 Getrag. Including any royalties involved with FirstOpel81 for the rights to that bellhousing adapter. And solving the speedometer cable interface.

    Gil will not make a million dollars from this. But as the current 240's in the US start to fail, as the current GT owners sell out to a younger bunch of Opelers to come; as the German Getrag 240 market dries up to nothing, our junkyards will be filled to the brim with Mustang GT's fresh from some Cars and Coffee; where the driver's last words were heard: "Let me show these people what a burnout is all about!"

    He who creates the first Tremec 5 Speed transmission kit for the Opel GT & Manta A for commercial sale and homeowner installation, wins!
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    4,000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeNotigan View Post

    That's alot of good 5 Speed Tremec's sitting in our junkyards.


    The ideal remedy is for our favorite Opel vendor to create a package for the Tremec as he has done for years with the 240 Getrag. Including any royalties involved with FirstOpel81 for the rights to that bellhousing adapter. And solving the speedometer cable interface.


    He who creates the first Tremec 5 Speed transmission kit for the Opel GT & Manta A for commercial sale and homeowner installation, wins!
    Worldwide


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    The T-5 is the most compact Tremec you'll find. If you were to run off a small batch of custom bell housings to mate the T-5 to a CIH, that would be a good starting point. We already know a T-5 has been installed in a GT.
    "Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn." ~Zeppi

    1973 Opel GT project car - Plans: 2.5L CIH, Weber 38 DGAS, Getrag 240, Lowered 1", Watts link, exterior color - Rainforest Green Pearl, interior color - tan

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    Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer GoinManta's Avatar
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    As a follow up.

    The Getrag has become harder to get and we now know except for a small batch of parts the syncros are NLA, and the big main bearing as well.

    The key here is the Big bearing is unique to the EARLY BMW 3 series, the later BMW E30 DOES NOT WORK. Also only the syncros from the 1983 E21 and EARLY 84 to 85 E30. Post Dec 1985 ( Which is MOST the E30 with 5 speeds ) are not compatible with the opel version of the Getrag 240..

    BUT knowing this tidbit is pretty much not very important as those parts numbers are NLA everywhere. Along with some other smaller internal bearings.

    Working with Jef Boite in Belgium, I was able to get enough cores from him and Rav to rebuild 9 of them. I have one that is right now earmarked for me.. and one that is for sale as part of a 2.4L and 5 speed kit. Thats it.

    To give you an idea of how bad it is, and how delicate these transmissions have become from the years of age. Last year when I got the crate in I had 6. ALL 6 got sent in for rebuilding.. of those 5 came back. It took two transmissions and parts from Gil to make one transmission. The other 4 were worn enough they needed the big end bearing, and a minimum of 2 syncros. Right now if you can find old stock the bearing goes for $250, the syncros for around $160 EACH.

    For just those 3 pieces of unobtainium, your looking at $570.. and thats where you start..

    Also anyone that says "Gil sells them" is incorrect. He SOLD them.. he hasn't had any in stock in the time I have been bringing them over due to the rarity of even finding them. He hasn't had one for sale in 3-4 years. He makes just enough install kits to fill the need for the transmissions I am bringing in.

    Right now the T-5 concept is the one that is probably going to be the future for our cars when it comes to a 5 speed upgrade.

    I seriously think this last batch is going to be the last large batch to come out of Europe, I imagine that there will find one or two here and there. But a steady supply, those days have past. The same is true of the 2.2L and 2.4L engines. But they have a few more years till they are close to extinct as there are still Fronteras out in Poland, because like the ROdeo here in teh US, they are bullet proof, just not rust proof.
    CURRENT
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    '92 Senator B - "Professor"
    '74 Opel Manta - "Barbara"
    '72 Opel GT - "Red Baron"

    In the past owned:
    '04, '05, '06 Pontiac GTO
    2 Bitters (#491/#439)
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    & many many other Opels and a even few GTs

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    Opeler mschmalenberg's Avatar
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    I love my 5 speed, but I need a rear seal for it, it has started to leak, is that part out there?
    Mike
    Brandon Twp. ,MI
    71 GT, 2003 MINI Cooper S JCW#249

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    Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer GoinManta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mschmalenberg View Post
    I love my 5 speed, but I need a rear seal for it, it has started to leak, is that part out there?
    Yep, Gil has them.. make sure to get the brown/orange one..
    CURRENT
    '71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D (2.0 L w/ EFI & Auto) - "Mary Ann"
    '92 Senator B - "Professor"
    '74 Opel Manta - "Barbara"
    '72 Opel GT - "Red Baron"

    In the past owned:
    '04, '05, '06 Pontiac GTO
    2 Bitters (#491/#439)
    '73 Commodore GS
    ATLAS ( 74 Manta w/ 2.8L LK5 )
    & many many other Opels and a even few GTs

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    OpelGT.com Übermoderator kwilford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mschmalenberg View Post
    I love my 5 speed, but I need a rear seal for it, it has started to leak, is that part out there?
    Rear Getrag 240 seal:
    https://www.opelgtsource.com/search/2893/details

    Front Getrag 240 seal:
    https://www.opelgtsource.com/search/2895/details
    Keith Wilford
    Finishing up a bare-metal, nut & bolt rotisserie restoration of my '71 Opel GT

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    Charles, do you know if the later 240 synchros can be used?
    "Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn." ~Zeppi

    1973 Opel GT project car - Plans: 2.5L CIH, Weber 38 DGAS, Getrag 240, Lowered 1", Watts link, exterior color - Rainforest Green Pearl, interior color - tan

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    All of my recent research leads me to believe that the main shaft with all its components as well as the countershaft and select shifter rails and forks are the same. The center section. This includes the gear clusters, depending on ratios, and all synchronizer rings. The large rear bearing and rear roller bushing for the countershaft are also the same. That, I'm afraid, is where the similarities end. Bell housings, tail shaft housing, input and output shafts, all different between early 318i and Opel. Hardest part to find is the input, dual bearing. Very expensive, but then so is everything else.
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    Pedal Smasher Autoholic's Avatar
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    I was talking to Charles and he explained how roughly 6 of the Getrags in this recent shipment were built from a stockpile of spare parts in Europe. The guy (Jef) who is rebuilding the 240 had a lot of spare parts as this has been an ongoing thing for him. All those parts are now used up. If you can get your hands on an Opel Getrag 240 that came from a running car, chances are good it can be rebuilt. The synchros, bearings, and gaskets can be sourced right now. But anything major, could mean a dead 240.

    The future will be a T5 conversion.
    "Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn." ~Zeppi

    1973 Opel GT project car - Plans: 2.5L CIH, Weber 38 DGAS, Getrag 240, Lowered 1", Watts link, exterior color - Rainforest Green Pearl, interior color - tan

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