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Thread: List of best engine swaps?

  1. #61
    Opeler Flloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    Leave engine stuff to the experts.
    lol sounds like a plan, will do
    best bet for me then if i RLY wanted to would just about be to MAYBE get one of the 1.9s out of an older opel then?
    sounds like it would be sufficient in terms of hp and with some help would most likely be best fit with least amount of mods and trouble.

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    ggl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flloyd View Post
    lol sounds like a plan, will do
    best bet for me then if i RLY wanted to would just about be to MAYBE get one of the 1.9s out of an older opel then?
    sounds like it would be sufficient in terms of hp and with some help would most likely be best fit with least amount of mods and trouble.
    If automatic is your choice then, as almost always, I highly recommend one of the "stroker" engines. When Opel wanted more than 2.0 liters out of the venerable CIH engine there was no room for larger diameter pistons so they went with a longer stroke instead. One thing is the increased torque you get from a bigger engine but a longer stroke means additional low rpm torque and in an Opel even more so because the stock 2.0 and below has a very short stroke

    The beauty of a 2.2 or a 2.4 is that it's external dimensions are exactly the same as a 2.0 so there's no modifications needed to fit the engine itself *and* it bolts up to your existing automatic. You will need to do some work to get the FI installed and running properly though but unlike modern FI it doesn't care what car it sits in or if it's still mated up to the same transmission it started out with

    A stock 2.2 puts out 115 hp and a 2.4 puts out 125. Those are honest hp numbers btw, at the flywheel, the equivalent hp number for a high compression 1.9 is 90. So you get 25-35 hp more and bags of torque

    The downside, availability ..... and as a result of that, price, as these engines were never sold in the US
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    Opeler Flloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggl View Post
    If automatic is your choice then, as almost always, I highly recommend one of the "stroker" engines. When Opel wanted more than 2.0 liters out of the venerable CIH engine there was no room for larger diameter pistons so they went with a longer stroke instead. One thing is the increased torque you get from a bigger engine but a longer stroke means additional low rpm torque and in an Opel even more so because the stock 2.0 and below has a very short stroke

    The beauty of a 2.2 or a 2.4 is that it's external dimensions are exactly the same as a 2.0 so there's no modifications needed to fit the engine itself *and* it bolts up to your existing automatic. You will need to do some work to get the FI installed and running properly though but unlike modern FI it doesn't care what car it sits in or if it's still mated up to the same transmission it started out with

    A stock 2.2 puts out 115 hp and a 2.4 puts out 125. Those are honest hp numbers btw, at the flywheel, the equivalent hp number for a high compression 1.9 is 90. So you get 25-35 hp more and bags of torque

    The downside, availability ..... and as a result of that, price, as these engines were never sold in the US
    dang that all sounded so perfect right up until the end lol, like i said tho im not rdy to do an engine swap right now anyway, just more or less researching at this time and gathering info so i know what to look out for thanks for all the great info much appreciated!

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    Opeler Flloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindsay View Post
    ya me too! lol and i might just beat you to it as it looks like he lives closer to me then he does to you lol

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    Senior Member heliman's Avatar
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    Let me add another factor when it comes to engine swaps. Yes the price of an Opel 2.2 or 2.4 engine can seem pretty high. But it's really not, when you swap an off breed engine you still have to purchase the new engine or the parts to build one, plus all the parts you will need to go with it. On top of that if you do a swap like mine, no one makes a single piece you can buy that will help with adapting the engine to your chassis or to adapt a Subaru 6 speed to a Ford engine. So unless you have the tools and ability to fabricate everything you need you could spend hundreds or thousands having someone else do it for you. An Opel GT engine bay is very tight, there isn't many engines that will fit in it without hacking the body. There is a reason the vast majority of engine swaps in a GT results in something that never gets finished or ends up looking like a complete disaster when done.
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    ggl
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    Quote Originally Posted by heliman View Post
    Let me add another factor when it comes to engine swaps. Yes the price of an Opel 2.2 or 2.4 engine can seem pretty high. But it's really not, when you swap an off breed engine you still have to purchase the new engine or the parts to build one, plus all the parts you will need to go with it. On top of that if you do a swap like mine, no one makes a single piece you can buy that will help with adapting the engine to your chassis or to adapt a Subaru 6 speed to a Ford engine. So unless you have the tools and ability to fabricate everything you need you could spend hundreds or thousands having someone else do it for you. An Opel GT engine bay is very tight, there isn't many engines that will fit in it without hacking the body. There is a reason the vast majority of engine swaps in a GT results in something that never gets finished or ends up looking like a complete disaster when done.
    This post should be in a FAQ, everything you need to think about before contemplating an engine swap
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    1000 Post Club Vincent's Avatar
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    Thing is 2.2l and to another degree 2.4ls are not expensive. Three years ago I called OGTS with a credit card in my hand ready to order a used 2.2l long block for 1200$! Seriously, that's amazing bang for buck. 1200 bucks! Really?The problem is shipping costs. They make it expensive fast. Aspecislly to Canada.
    And under Gil's advise I built a 2l from a 1.9l. With no regrets. It has plenty of power. But it still cost north of 3k to build!
    Last edited by Vincent; 05-22-2015 at 09:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Viny Charb View Post
    Thing is 2.2l and to another degree 2.4ls are not expensive. Three years ago I called OGTS with a credit card in my hand ready to order a used 2.2l long block for 1200$! Seriously, that's amazing bang for buck. 1200 bucks! Really?The problem is shipping costs. They make it expensive fast. Aspecislly to Canada.
    And under Gil's advise I built a 2l from a 1.9l. With no regrets. It has plenty of power. But it still cost north of 3k to build!
    What would you compare it to? I'm also on the fence about swapping or buying a 2.4 or working my 1.9.

    If I can be in the low 15 second range I'd be happy preferably 14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khalifa View Post
    This is the first time that owned 1970 Opel GT, and I want my car to be free of defects and mechanical failure. So the engine swap attracted me a lot.




    I want to do engine swap without many and hard fabrication, I want to have modern and small engine with moderate power at the same time, I prefer Japanese engine because it is practical, parts fairly cheap and available in my area, I’m looking for advise .. Which engine do you think will do my objective, Toyota, Honda or Nissan engine?!
    I would appreciate for any help... Thnx.
    For me it would be the Nissan VQ25DET engine. Extremely light and compact V6, nearly 300hp, and was on the Wards Best Engine list for 10 years running (VQ series of engines)....
    Couple that with the Nissan 6-speed gearbox and what a combination!!!

    Cheers,
    Tricky
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    I don’t know about best but to me any optimal engine swap should not require butchering the tin or building a complete subframe to keep it from becoming a corkscrew. For me only Opel engines need apply.
    For me the only swap that sounds attractive is the straight 6 Opel CIH. If someone said all all I’d have to do is mount the radiator on the front of the support and then it fits I’d be all excited.
    My buddy got all excited about my new toy and started going on about a Chevy 350/350 swap. I told him to put down the flex and step away from the oxy-acetylene torch.

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    Just Some Dude in Jersey The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that the radiator support wall is a key support between the shock towers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    Keep in mind that the radiator support wall is a key support between the shock towers.
    Remove that and things would get all wiggly wobbly in the turns. I did see on the German Opel forum a guy dropped in the straight 6 and bolted a steel tube construction in to replace the radiator support. I thought it looked massively heavy and not really very stiff.

  16. #74
    Pedal Smasher Autoholic's Avatar
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    Old thread, but the ultimate engine swap would be a crossflow engine IMO. It will cost a lot though.

    On a more realistic budget, a 2.4L CIH is the best engine swap IMO. It's still a 4 cylinder CIH, so it's a bolt in engine swap. The displacement of the 2.4 can be bumped up a little, as much as 2.7 L from what I hear. For the 2.4L I have coming from Charles, my goal for the engine takes it to just under 2.5 liters, and focus on improving airflow. Custom intake manifold, custom air plenum and a highly tuned / modified Weber 38 DGAS, with Charles' custom Isky OR-77 Hydraulic cam. I'm looking at Wiseco for pistons, designed for the 2.4L CIH. Static CR will be around 10.5:1 to 11.0:1. Dynamic is what really matters, and I’m seeing around 8:1 from the math. Only real measurements and tuning will iron that out closer. More importantly, the dynamic cylinder pressure is what will get you into trouble. That’s what causes auto-ignition of a fuel.
    Last edited by Autoholic; 06-02-2018 at 03:32 PM.
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    That sounds like a great setup. I’m going to look through the engine performance threads. Is there one that would boil it all down for the new GT owner? A sort of sticky post that slays out various “stages” of tuning one can do. from a stage 0, all 100% where it is all the tips of what to look for and change for the longest life. To a stage X that bores, stokes, polishes and ports using the best of parts people have found. Someone should put out a book on tuning the CIH line. I looked on amazon and didn’t see an engine builders book. Might be a limited market of diehard Opel fans.
    On the swapping theme, when I first started looking after agreeing to buy my GT I had had thought people would be dropping in those new all aluminum turbo 4 crate engines from GM. Till I saw why not . The thing must be three times as wide and according to the data sheet is heavier than even the CIH when installed. I’ll stick with rooting around for some nice tweaks that can increase the grin factor without risking the tin or it becoming an extremely long term project that never finishes.
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  18. #76
    Pedal Smasher Autoholic's Avatar
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    Well, for the 1.9L, the best advice I could give would be to talk to Rally Bob. He's probably tweaked and tuned more CIH engines than anyone else in America. Let him know what you want to get out of a 1.9L block, and see what he says can be done. It's also worth reading what he's done to 1.9L and other CIH engines.

    Charles Goin still has stroker kits he's putting together I think. He's working on 2.3L turbo diesel cranks, doing an offset grind to increase the stroke, and putting it in a 1.9L. It's a cheaper way to build a 2.4 - 2.7L CIH. That might be worth looking into for you, cheaper way to larger displacement.

    For the 2.4L (the 2.2L and 2.4L blocks were a little different from the 1.9L / 2.0L CIH), from what I've read your main concern is improving airflow. So porting and polishing the cylinder head, good valve job, etc. If you can afford to go for a 2.4L block, I've been told that's the better way to go. 2.2L engines are pretty similar but harder to find. These blocks already have the needed clearance for the larger stroke in a CIH, which is one reason why they are good to work with. Also, you will not find anyone making new cranks unless you get one custom made. Which is another reason why it's nice to find a stock crank that already has the stroke you want.

    If you do go for a 2.4L CIH, you'll have to create your own intake manifold, pay someone to create one, or run EFI. One area you can improve the 1.9L is fuel management. The stock Solex carb sucks, so many go for a Weber 32/36 DGV carb and see better engine performance right away. Some go for Weber DCOE's and some go for EFI. Each option has its pros and cons, and you'll have to decide what you want to do if you stick with a CIH. I'm going to use a Weber 38 DGAS (cousin to the Weber 32/36 DGV which is a vacuum secondary carb and the 38 is synchronous) and I want to create my own intake manifold that capitalizes on the strengths of the 38. If you're open to turbocharging, that would be another way to improve any CIH engine. Rally Bob can also help you there, I believe he's currently working on a turbo CIH engine.

    The GT has a pretty tight engine bay, which is why engine swaps can be really difficult. Anything in a V format will be a tight fit, which is why many still stick to inline engines. Some take a modern Opel 4 cylinder and drop it in, there are a few of those floating around.
    Last edited by Autoholic; 06-02-2018 at 11:48 PM.
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    The 20N/S/E/EH and the 22E blocks are the same casting, they are all marked with a 20 on the block behind the alternator, regardless of displacement.
    Talking about engine swaps, I would take a look at the 22E, it has a shorter stroke than the C24NE and is more rev happy, which is never wrong in a light sporty car. But I understand that the availability in the US is limited. I had a Kadett C with a carbed 22E engine once that went like stink and was fun to drive on curvy roads. My 2 €cents.

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    Pedal Smasher Autoholic's Avatar
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    Finding any of the CIH engines with a displacement beyond 1.9L is going to have to come from Europe. Looking at some of my German sources for Opel stuff, I've found a few 2.2L's and a bunch of 2.4L's. The German eBay site has 5 2.4L's as a package deal for 5.000€, which is $5,835 before shipping. But these engines have everything on them. eBay's classifieds website has some stuff too, a complete 2.2L for 500€, which is $583 before shipping. The expensive part about any of this will be the shipping.

    You can really overhaul a 1.9L for the amount you'll spend on shipping, however it won't wind up at the same place as a 2.2L or 2.4L when all is said and done. So for a little more of an investment in the engine, you get more torque and horsepower. Realizing that is what made me decide a 2.4L is the better way to go. Pistons, con rods, engine machining, cams, springs, valves, etc will all cost roughly the same and if you build an almost brand new motor, we're talking like a $4-5,000 investment anyways (most labor done yourself). Better to do it right the first time.

    When I do plop my engine in a GT, I plan to clean up and restore the 1.9S that came in it and use it as a coffee table. Keep the original engine, all original (besides the seals). But that's a long term art project years from now.
    Last edited by Autoholic; 06-03-2018 at 03:41 AM.
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    What about using an existing 19S engine as a basis and off center grind the crank to 73,8mm and use narrowed Fiat rods with an center to center length of 128,52mm together with a thicker head gasket and milled 95,50 or 96,00mm stock 2 liter pistons( or custom made ones)? Then it is possible to get 2114cm³ or 2137cm³ depending of the bore. Probably best to sonic test the block for core shift first. https://www.maxspeedingrods.co.uk/hi...lts-x4pcs.html

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    Just Some Dude in Jersey The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Although the 2.4's are nice powerful engines, they're rare in this country and pretty expensive and there's a number of set up challenges. I have one.

    I would be just as happy with a big valve 2.0 and I'd get WAY better gas mileage.

    Please don't fall into the trap that almost every newbie Opeler falls into and get all caught up in trying to get the most gnarly engine possible in your ride. There's a lot more to a car than engine, engine, engine. Judging by your avatar photo, you've got a LOOOOOONG way to go before you can contemplate racing Hellcats on the highway. The next newbie trap is wheels. Every newbie spends enormous amount of time and money on $2000 wheels, while the rest of their car is a rolling schitt bucket.

    These cars are extremely fun to drive no matter what sort of engine you have in the car. They're 10 times better to drive and own when they look nice and have a really sweet interior.

    The difference between a low compression, small valve, 1.9 and a big valve 2.0 engine is night and day and doesn't cost you any more than the cost of the engine or rebuild. All your carbs and parts will swap over with no extra expense. 2.0 engines are the standard go-to engine that most people go for. It's the right amount of hp for these cars and will put you on a par with most other modern cars on the road. The 2.4's are actually a little bit too much hp and cost almost twice as much by the time they're all set up.

    I would suggest that you put a call out for a used or new 2.0 engine, buy it, then focus on the other restoration challenges your car has.


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