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Thread: I'm so pissed off!

  1. #21
    Über Genius First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knorm65 View Post
    Can you explain how to tell? A quick google revealed nothing.
    Passive ground means that the distributor gets it's ground through contact with the engine wherever it might touch. There's the housing, the clamp, and the shaft. Somewhere along the line there should be a decent ground, right? (that's the thinking)

    Active ground means that there's a wire connected to the block that also connects to the distributor. As long as the ends of the wire are clean grounds then you have a an active ground.

    It should be noted that the active/passive ground issue in the Opel distributor is a known issue that pops up over time. What many don't know is that there's a ground strap INSIDE the distributor that connects the points plate (pertronix also) to the housing of the distributor. This is the active ground component inside the distributor. You can cut that strap (or it wears out) and the engine can display the symptoms Gordon is having.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scifi Guy
    FO, I love listening to your deductive logic. You make it seem so easy to zero in on the problem.
    Thanks. It's a gift and a curse.
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    Humans are not an endangered species!
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—

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  3. #22
    Can Opeler Knorm65's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by First opel 1981 View Post
    Passive ground means that the distributor gets it's ground through contact with the engine wherever it might touch. There's the housing, the clamp, and the shaft. Somewhere along the line there should be a decent ground, right? (that's the thinking)

    Active ground means that there's a wire connected to the block that also connects to the distributor. As long as the ends of the wire are clean grounds then you have a an active ground.

    It should be noted that the active/passive ground issue in the Opel distributor is a known issue that pops up over time. What many don't know is that there's a ground strap INSIDE the distributor that connects the points plate (pertronix also) to the housing of the distributor. This is the active ground component inside the distributor. You can cut that strap (or it wears out) and the engine can display the symptoms Gordon is having.



    Thanks. It's a gift and a curse.
    Thanks! I'm going to add a little ground strap just for kicks on mine.
    "Mira," 1970 Opel GT Working ARA AC, European 2.0L and Midikit
    "Kara," 1972 Opel GT Targa, Welded Doors, Rhinolined

  4. #23
    Über Genius First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knorm65 View Post
    Thanks! I'm going to add a little ground strap just for kicks on mine.
    I had to on mine.

    After powder coating the clamp and adding the cork gasket to the distributor-to-timing cover connection, I would get weird symptoms. Basically I was only getting ground through the shaft and that was flaky. Was driving me nuts because after 2000 RPMs my engine would sputter and my tach would go nuts. Different ambient temperatures had different symptoms. I added the ground strap and it fixed that problem. I also had to repair the internal ground strap.


    Gordon...


    I just remembered something else that you should check. Check the black and white plugs at the fuse block (or did you do away with those?). If the white block is loose you can get the cutout symptoms also.
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    Humans are not an endangered species!
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  6. #24
    OpelGT.com Übermoderator kwilford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwilford View Post
    AFAIK, most aftermarket ignition systems (Pertonix for sure) do not require a distributor ground, nor a breaker plate ground.
    I had wrongly assumed that the Pertronix Ignitor was fully encapsulated in epoxy and therefore didn't actually ground to the distributor, so the distributor plate didn't need to be grounded. Then I said to myself: "...how does the Pertronix ground the coil in order to cause the primary winding circuit to collapse which in turn creates the voltage increase in the secondary winding circuit..."

    So I looked up how a Pertronix works, and, well, DOH, of course it has to be grounded.

    My bad.
    Last edited by kwilford; 04-16-2019 at 02:13 AM.
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    Keith Wilford
    Finishing up a bare-metal, nut & bolt rotisserie restoration of my '71 Opel GT; next up is my 28,000 mile Garage Find GT, stored since 1975, which needs a LOT of love...

  7. #25
    Über Genius First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwilford View Post
    AFAIK, most aftermarket ignition systems (Pertonix for sure) do not require a distributor ground, nor a breaker plate ground.
    Pertronix has a positive wire and a signal wire.

    How does the circuit work if the unit isn't grounded to the breaker plate? Where does the signal wire get its ground from?
    Opel GTs are not GM products
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  8. #26
    Just Some Dude in Jersey The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    I'm leaning hard that the issue is with a flaky electronic device, but here's another wrinkle to add that's probably absolutely nothing:

    When I had my first pullover to check under the hood for boogers, I noticed something that shocked the heck out of me: Condensed water droplets on my chrome Steinmetz manifold near the carb. Now, I had been driving for about 1/2 an hour with about 10 minutes of that on the highway at 80, plus a brief warm up before I left my house. I have a heavily ventilated hood with scoops and vents that flow air all sorts of ways. You may remember me writing a post and posting pics of an incident at some point in the past where I had gone out into my closed garage and popped my closed hood and found that all the chrome and stainless stuff in my engine compartment had so much condensation on it that it looked like I had taken a garden hose to it. This had happened on a cool early Spring overnight with seriously high humidity, like 90%, but no rain. The dew point must have dropped really low. The night/day of my stalling was another such day, but I hadn't popped the hood, so I don't know how much condensation may have been there from the start. Additionally, my chromy 2.5 and auto tranny are pumping out heat and you can usually fry eggs on my valve cover and intake manifold(They taste pretty good with a little hot sauce to drown out the motor oil flavor! ). It boggles my mind that I could still have had some condensation after that 1/2 hour, those conditions, my ventilation, and my normal heat build up. I had to taste it to believe it. It was water, not anti-freeze, not the thin clear oil I found all over everything when my coil blew, it was water. It was just a smidgeon, but it's got me to thinking: How bad was the condensation before I started driving? Could water have condensed onto my chromed MSD cover or it's wiring and somehow gotten inside? Or possibly the trigger or it's wiring? Don't forget, this has been an intermittant thing over a few years with gaps of months without it happening. I never drew a mental line between condensation and this problem before now, so I never looked for it. To be honest, this is the only the second time I've noticed condensation on my engine and I've noticed engine missing while idling in the driveway on hot bone dry days. Super humidity or extremely low dew point days are pretty rare, but I heard on the radio today that we had a tornado warning over night........a day later........in New Jersey(not unheard of, but still pretty rare).......and many of my huge 25 gallon pot palm trees were blown over when I left for work today, so we've had some extreme weather over the past 2 days(The aftermath of that azz-kicker storm that blew through the mid-west at the end of the week).

    I'm sure there's no connection, but it's worth noting.

  9. #27
    Member ejota's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if your GT has an EGR valve or not, but I used to have a 2nd generation Eagle Talon that would cut out/stall/miss once it got to operating temp when the EGR valve went bad. Just thought I'd throw it out there! That's what you get for your Best in Show award!
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  10. #28
    Just Some Dude in Jersey The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Here's fresh pics of my diz. It's a chromed RallyBob locked plate, deleted vac adv, restricted mech adv, one. Second pic shows the AccuFire timing disc removed and flipped over to show the Ig Trig sensor. Two wires, red and black, no ground wires anywhere I can see. I have a ton of nice new ground straps and I could add one from, say, the diz clamp to the body or maybe some other locations.

    My diz with AccuFire (1).jpg My diz with AccuFire (2).jpg

    Ya see that dark spot on the Accufire? That's been there a few years, it doesn't rub off. If it's nothing, then the only thing it could be is some of the black plastic from the timing disc that has scuffed off the disc onto it. But look at the disc, it doesn't look scuffed. What if that dark spot is the residue of it overheating?

    That's why it's got to go.
    Last edited by The Scifi Guy; 04-15-2019 at 04:16 PM.

  11. #29
    Just Some Dude in Jersey The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ejota View Post
    Just thought I'd throw it out there! That's what you get for your Best in Show award!
    I KNOW!

    I'm so humiliated!

    I'm supposed to be a bad azz junior rocket scientist in the Opel world(uhhh......aren't I?). I'm not supposed to have stupid schitt go wrong with my car.

    Well........whenever I start getting full of myself and start believing that I'm actually good at this stuff.......WHAM!.......the reality that I'm actually a dumbass bitch-slaps me in the face!


  12. #30
    Über Genius First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    Here's fresh pics of my diz. It's a chromed RallyBob locked plate, deleted vac adv, restricted mech adv, one. Second pic shows the AccuFire timing disc removed and flipped over to show the Ig Trig sensor. Two wires, red and black, no ground wires anywhere I can see. I have a ton of nice new ground straps and I could add one from, say, the diz clamp to the body or maybe some other locations.

    My diz with AccuFire (1).jpg My diz with AccuFire (2).jpg

    Ya see that dark spot on the Accufire? That's been there a few years, it doesn't rub off. If it's nothing, then the only thing it could be is some of the black plastic from the timing disc that has scuffed off the disc onto it. But look at the disc, it doesn't look scuffed. What if that dark spot is the residue of it overheating?

    That's why it's got to go.
    That second picture is where I, personally, would start. That looks pretty grody for a sensitive electronic component.

    As for the condensation issue... I have a fun story. (I have a story for everything. It's how I learn)

    I went to the science museum with my grandson last Friday. They had an electric lab set up so kids could learn about electricity and stuff. There was a cute 20-something woman there as the lead "scientist".
    One of the experiments, a homemade generator and a homemade motor connected together, had some water from a soda cup on the countertop nearby.
    She said she needed to wipe up the water so nobody would get shocked before my GS could turn the generator.

    I laughed and said "You know water is barely conductive, right?" and she looked at me like I was insane. (I added that we were working with microamps so it's not like anyone could be hurt by the shock anyhow). She said, people die from water electrocution all the time. At that point I had to do it. My reply "pure water doesn't conduct electricity hardly at all. It's the impurities in the water that allow it to be conductive". She didn't believe me so I suggested she look it up.

    But for your purpose, Gordon, there are plenty of impurities under an engine hood to add condensation to to cause problems. The thing is, none of them should cause your symptoms unless your driving is adding water.

    If it happens again, look inside the distributor cap for moisture.

    Either way, it wouldn't make the tach drop to zero. That scuzzy pick up joint would, though.
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  13. #31
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    If you didn't notice, the weekend was extremely humid; more so than usual at this time of the year. I sure felt it and my glasses sure fogged up on my bike runs.

    My old Bronco II had this tendency to buck, stall and cut out on those kinds of damp, high humidity or rainy days. After a brief rest, it'd start up. But it could act up with regularity evertime it rained. This was an 84 Bronco II, with the carburated but computer controlled V6.

    Turns out Ford was aware of this situation, and they half way fixed it by placing a vent on the distributor cap to allow it to vent any wet vapors trapped inside the cap when conditions were just right. Think too how some carbs would freeze up in high humid conditions, stalling out the car until the ice melted in the carb throats. Though I believe you have an ignition thing going on (and you do need to follow Norbert's advice and go with one brand of ignition componetry, from beginning to end); your condition was exacerbated with the high humidity of relatively cool temps of the weekend....
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    Just Some Dude in Jersey The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Yeah, my Mom's Plymouth Duster would never start during rain or high morning dew.

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    Just Some Dude in Jersey The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    I just ordered a Pertronix 3 and the matching chrome coil. It claims to do everything that my MSD box does, but without the box. I like my MSD box and it dresses up my engine compartment, so I'll take the guts out of it and make it a little tool box or something. This way I'll knock out the 2 most likely suspects in one swoop and have a matching system.
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  16. #34
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    I'm Still Here

    Thank you Jeff, I just finished writting Keith Wilford the reason why I left. I am still here. Thank you all who remember me. Jarrell
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    Quote Originally Posted by soybean View Post
    Thank you Jeff, I just finished writting Keith Wilford the reason why I left. I am still here. Thank you all who remember me. Jarrell
    Jarrell, I still remember meeting you in person down at VIR during that NASA race weekend. You even got to put your GT on the racing scales as I recall. Good to hear from you again!
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    OpelGT.com Übermoderator kwilford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by First opel 1981 View Post
    Pertronix has a positive wire and a signal wire.

    How does the circuit work if the unit isn't grounded to the breaker plate? Where does the signal wire get its ground from?
    I had wrongly assumed that the Pertronix Ignitor was fully encapsulated in epoxy and therefore didn't actually ground to the distributor, so the distributor plate didn't need to be grounded. Then I said to myself: "...how does the Pertronix ground the coil in order to cause the primary winding circuit to collapse which in turn creates the voltage increase in the secondary winding circuit..."

    So I looked up how a Pertronix works, and, well, DOH, of course it has to be grounded.

    My bad.
    Keith Wilford
    Finishing up a bare-metal, nut & bolt rotisserie restoration of my '71 Opel GT; next up is my 28,000 mile Garage Find GT, stored since 1975, which needs a LOT of love...

  19. #37
    Über Genius First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwilford View Post
    I had wrongly assumed that the Pertronix Ignitor was fully encapsulated in epoxy and therefore didn't actually ground to the distributor, so the distributor plate didn't need to be grounded. Then I said to myself: "...how does the Pertronix ground the coil in order to cause the primary winding circuit to collapse which in turn creates the voltage increase in the secondary winding circuit..."

    So I looked up how a Pertronix works, and, well, DOH, of course it has to be grounded.

    My bad.


    I knew this. I was just waiting to see the lightbulb energize.
    Gary, kwilford and The Scifi Guy like this.
    Opel GTs are not GM products
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—
    Humans are not an endangered species!
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—

  20. #38
    3000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    My darn engine did it's phantom sputtering and engine shut down thing again! 20 minutes on the highway at 80 and a miss. Then another miss. And another. Then a several second shut down. The okay for a 1/2 mile. Then a miss. Then a shut down. Etc., etc. etc.........

    WTF!

    Dammit!
    I blew all the neighborhood stop signs and roared into my garage.

    What the heck is the problem?

    I had filled the tank before I left with Mobil premium. Remember my problem with my fuel tank.

    Ooooo man am I pissed off! How do you diagnose
    I know that symtoms only by guy who want not to hear what other people want to tell.
    Allways ignore

    Not Gordo but Ingo and both are Opelers Wackadoodles

    Super Gordo Super

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHq2...ature=youtu.be

  21. #39
    Opeler
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    My general attitude regarding car breakdowns or flat tires:
    1. Vehicle quit running in a safe place or safe neighborhood?
    2. Weather conditions?
    3. Daylight or darkness?
    4. Near my house or reasonable towing distance?

    Sunday before Christmas, daily driver car started, then stalled after church services.
    Dressed in better clothes, but it is a nice day and reasonable safe neighborhood.
    A few attempts of troubleshooting, but car would not start. Finally, call AAA for towing to house.
    Next day at home, check engine for suck, bang, and blow. Carburetor had fuel pump pressure/ volume.
    No Spark! Electronic engine module was an issue, ten years ago. New module is $38.00.
    Install new ignition control module inside distributor, and away we go.
    Bought it at Kregan, which is now O'Reillys Auto. Lost my lifetime warranty. Another $38.00 spent.
    The Scifi Guy likes this.

  22. #40
    Just Some Dude in Jersey The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwilford View Post
    the distributor plate didn't need to be grounded.

    So I looked up how a Pertronix works, and, well, DOH, of course it has to be grounded.

    My bad.
    Hmmm.....looking at my picture...

    My diz with AccuFire (2).jpg

    I don't see a good place to ground the plate.

    Do I really need to do this?

    Funny thing, when I was rev'ing the engine in my video, I could have sworn I heard the crack/snap sound of spark jumping a gap. Almost as though capacitance was building up in something and then discharging. I looked for lightning bolts and I didn't find any loose ones or any laying under the car.


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