3D Scanning Projects
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Thread: 3D Scanning Projects

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    Pedal Smasher Autoholic's Avatar
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    3D Scanning Projects

    Here is my current 3D scanning project, since the vents are not with me now. I have a need to get some of the dimensions off of the stock intake manifold. Right now, I can't capture the whole intake with the EinScan SE in the factory configuration. I have an extension cable in the mail that should make it easier for me to get an entire object within the scanning volume from a farther scanning distance. The accuracy farther away will go down a little, but still well within tolerances for automotive use. The accuracy is ≤0.1 mm at maximum scanning volume, with a minimum scanning volume of 30mm x 30mm x 30mm if you don't use the turntable. Maximum scanning volume is 700mm x 700mm x 700mm.
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    1973 Opel GT project car. Plans: 2.5L, Weber 38 DGAS, Getrag 240, Watts link, exterior color - Rainforest Green Pearl, interior color - tan

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    Pedal Smasher Autoholic's Avatar
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    I have multiple projects at various stages for my GT. Scanning the intake is still a work in progress, I finally got a longer cord to allow scans from farther away. Haven't tried it out yet, I've been finishing some stuff on the following project. While the below project isn't 3D scanning, it did have some reverse engineering. At some point, I want to install a Restrosound stereo. It can fit in the dash and allows you to connect to your phone, even Sirius XM. But the head unit needs a redesign first, to look like it belongs in the car. So, I got the dimensions for the radio and designed a new face plate for the Long Beach unit. Ideally, I'd 3D print this using SLA and then use the 3D printed face plate with investment casting for aluminum. I don't want plastic controls and surfaces if I can avoid it, you know when you're touching metal. I want any replacement for the stock radio to look like it belongs, so I designed new push buttons and knobs for it. The knobs were designed from originals I have. A digital caliper makes reverse engineering the knobs pretty easy. The attached photos are pretty close to what my idea would look like. I don't have a Long Beach head unit yet, so I can't verify certain dimensions and how it will replace the factory face plate. I'm not in a rush to build a new radio. Oh, and the Opel script was also reverse engineered. This would be a void in the bezel, to be filled in with black enamel and then cured by a torch. I think this setup would look great in my GT one day.
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    "Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn." ~Zeppi (myself)

    1973 Opel GT project car. Plans: 2.5L, Weber 38 DGAS, Getrag 240, Watts link, exterior color - Rainforest Green Pearl, interior color - tan

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    Detritus Maximus opelbits's Avatar
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    A friend that does molding and casting has used white metal for his metal parts. Cheaper and easier (uses silicone molds with excellent surface detail retention) than aluminum and still metal. If your masters are clean and smooth enough, might not need much finishing. Not sure how well it would polish.
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    Pedal Smasher Autoholic's Avatar
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    Thanks for the idea. Looks like white metal is largely tin or zinc based. There are lots of options out there, so I'm not too worried about picking the right metal. Ideally, I want to find raw metal powders and mix my own alloy, using a specific alloy's composition as a reference. Create a mix from % of weight for the various powders and then melt. Powders melt easier and I could pack a ceramic mold with it prior to melting.
    "Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn." ~Zeppi (myself)

    1973 Opel GT project car. Plans: 2.5L, Weber 38 DGAS, Getrag 240, Watts link, exterior color - Rainforest Green Pearl, interior color - tan

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    I've done lost PLA investment casting and plaster casting with aluminum. It's straightforward and you can use inexpensive material or even cans for this type of project.

    Polish and paint and they would look pretty close to chromed. You could even plate the parts after polishing.
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    Pedal Smasher Autoholic's Avatar
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    I know it should be easy. I have a kiln that will work to melt anything below 2000 degrees. I’m looking at eventually getting an Elegoo SLA printer or a Phrozen Transform SLA whenever they hit the retail market. To do the knobs and buttons, I need a 3D printer that can handle sub millimeter features. That’s outside of what FDM printers can do.

    I did sand casting in the past using a part that was 3D printed with ABS. Easy to do, but I need fine detail. So, invest casting. And I want to go with powders, the idea came from a new 3D printing metal process. They would 3D print the metal with a bonding agent, and then heat it up to almost liquid to solidify the part. My take away was why not just pack a mold with the powders and heat it up to liquifaction temp?
    Last edited by Autoholic; 05-14-2019 at 02:51 PM.
    "Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn." ~Zeppi (myself)

    1973 Opel GT project car. Plans: 2.5L, Weber 38 DGAS, Getrag 240, Watts link, exterior color - Rainforest Green Pearl, interior color - tan

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    I would have totally 3d scanned my junk first thing. Just sayin...
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    FDM can do some very small features. 0.2mm nozzle means you can create ~0.1mm walls. Where those walls go is around 0.01mm with a good printer.

    What you have drawn looks easily made by an FDM process.

    Just have a look at the miniature figures people print for their DnD games.
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    Pedal Smasher Autoholic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftus View Post
    FDM can do some very small features. 0.2mm nozzle means you can create ~0.1mm walls. Where those walls go is around 0.01mm with a good printer.

    What you have drawn looks easily made by an FDM process.

    Just have a look at the miniature figures people print for their DnD games.
    FDM can't do features that are literally 0.1mm in size very well, regardless of the printer. You're entering the tolerances of what they handle. SLA on the other hand can easily do 0.07mm accuracy, if not better. And no, FDM wouldn't be able to handle the grooves on the knobs. For example, the spirals on the outer knobs are a depth of 0.13mm with gaps at 0.25mm. If I was to do FDM, I'd need to create this as a simple dished shape and then put it on a metal lathe to do the grooves. For the most part, FDM is only good to an accuracy of 1mm for designs. Unless you're only talking about layer height. Wall thickness is really limited by the size of the nozzle. If I have a design that comes to a point, and my nozzle is 0.4mm, then that point can only be 0.4mm in diameter. I know that typical specs for a print involve 0.1mm walls, but that is different from what can be printed if you only can print 1 line.

    I'll even send you the solidworks file for the knobs if you really want to put this to the test. A FDM printer will fail at pulling off my design to really capture the details. These parts were designed with a SLA printer in mind. FDM is great at being cheap and for handling stuff that doesn't have really small features. It's night and day what a SLA can do vs FDM. Also, for parts like these the surface smoothness is very important.

    FDM on the left, SLA on the right.
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    Last edited by Autoholic; 05-14-2019 at 09:16 PM.
    "Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn." ~Zeppi (myself)

    1973 Opel GT project car. Plans: 2.5L, Weber 38 DGAS, Getrag 240, Watts link, exterior color - Rainforest Green Pearl, interior color - tan

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    Über Genius First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinz View Post
    I would have totally 3d scanned my junk first thing. Just sayin...
    Start with something small. Good strategy.
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    Detritus Maximus opelbits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by First opel 1981 View Post
    Start with something small. Good strategy.
    Isn't that what Swiftus said?
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    "No, it's not fiberglass."
    "No, the motor is not in the back."
    "No, your friend in high school did not 'peg' his speedometer."

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    Detritus Maximus opelbits's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autoholic View Post
    Thanks for the idea. Looks like white metal is largely tin or zinc based. There are lots of options out there, so I'm not too worried about picking the right metal. Ideally, I want to find raw metal powders and mix my own alloy, using a specific alloy's composition as a reference. Create a mix from % of weight for the various powders and then melt. Powders melt easier and I could pack a ceramic mold with it prior to melting.
    I didn't realize you had a kiln, that makes a huge difference. White metal and silicone molds are great for mass production (of a sort) of small metal parts if you have access to a spincaster (or can make one). Didn't know if you were looking to produce a decent retro metal knob for others to 'mod' their Retrosounds.
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    "No, it's not fiberglass."
    "No, the motor is not in the back."
    "No, your friend in high school did not 'peg' his speedometer."

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    I walked right into that one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by First opel 1981 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinz View Post
    I would have totally 3d scanned my junk first thing. Just sayin...
    Start with something small. Good strategy.
    I walked right into that one.
    Autoholic likes this.

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    So an FDM printer has a lot of tricks it can do to make tiny features. It can run the printer fast than it extrudes plastic, which means it stretches the plastic out thinner. When tuned well, you can easily make 0.1mm walls. I do it almost every day.

    Layer heights can typically be ~1/4 of your nozzle diameter. So with a 0.2mm nozzle you can manage a layer height of 0.5mm.

    SLA is without a doubt able to produce a very fine print. I just think you're being a little pedantic about the whole thing.

    Send me a file and I'll see what I can make on a $200 printer before I try it out on a more expensive machine. I currently have a 90+ hour print running, so it might be a few days before I can make a teeny tiny knob!
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    Quote Originally Posted by opelbits View Post
    I didn't realize you had a kiln, that makes a huge difference. White metal and silicone molds are great for mass production (of a sort) of small metal parts if you have access to a spincaster (or can make one). Didn't know if you were looking to produce a decent retro metal knob for others to 'mod' their Retrosounds.
    I'm not sure if I want to produce this for others. When I decided what needs to be done to make a Retrosound radio look at home in the GT, I didn't really care what it will eventually cost. Once I buy a house (hopefully pretty soon, I've tried twice before already and things got pretty close but just weren't right, bad luck, etc) I'll start taking my GT apart. That also includes making a bunch of custom parts happen, like this radio design. Most Opel owners wouldn't buy a $400 radio and then sink like another $400 making it look nicer. I'd be open to making more than one of these radios, because I should be able to do everything required to create it. But the dress up kit for the Retrosound radio really could cost like another $400, so I don't expect to see anyone asking for it. One of my goals for my GT is to get it published in Petrolicious's new Drive Tastefully quarterly publication. I'm a fan of what they do, enough to go and fund the founder's membership (attached image) and get every single issue of the publication. For me, getting my car published and featured by them would be like winning a prestigious car show. When you see the kinds of cars that wind up getting the lime light by Petrolicious, we're not talking a small endeavor. So... my list of things to redo for the GT to make it drop dead gorgeous include...

    Out of metal, probably an aluminum alloy:
    - Intake manifold styled off of the original, designed for the Weber 38 DGV and 2.4L CIH. The 2.4 CIH has a different head, so the stock intake won't fit without modification. I'll just create a new one. 3D scanning is needed for this, of both the intake and the cylinder head.

    -Oil pan. While not required, I want to incorporate the transmission support that was cast out of iron for later CIH engines into the design of an aluminum oil pan. The 2.4L CIH also had some aluminum pans with this feature, but they are front sump pans and the GT needs a rear sump. I want this oil pan to also feature an oil accumulator built into the design, which I don't believe has ever been done before for any engine. Is it necessary? No. Would this oil pan be really cool though? Hell ya. 3D scanning is needed for this, of the alumunim pans I have (both types that you could put on a GT) and the cast iron transmission support. Probably the base of the 2.4L engine block too.

    -Weber DGV air plenum base. Many know of the Weber style snorkel kit you can buy. I don't like that the DGV doesn't have a good transition to improve airflow. If you study fluid mechanics, you'll learn that a curved transition helps flow rates and the DGV doesn't have this. All the traditional Weber carbs have air horns. So, a custom air plenum base that covers the top of the DGV and provides a rounded top for air to flow into the carb. Again, not necessary but cool to include. Might do 3D scanning to help this.

    -Retrosound Long Beach radio bezel with control knobs and buttons styled off of the original radio. I also plan on doing custom speaker grilles, I've been running into problems trying to create the CAD model for it. It's a complex 3D honeycomb design.

    -Ash tray. I want to replace the ash tray with one that features a battery cutoff switch and the USB / AUX inputs for the radio. When closed, you wouldn't see these. The top surface would have a silhouette of a GT with the model and chassis number of my GT below it.

    -Body emblems. Just like the radio, I don't want plastic body emblems and I want them to look really good. 3D scanning will be needed to at least help this.

    -Shift knob badge. This is in conjunction with the wood work below. I want more of a round, tear drop shaped shift knob.

    -Dash switches. If it's possible, I want to reproduce the dash switches out of metal and have the symbols built into their design instead of just painted on. I'm thinking glow in the dark white paint to fill in the designs would be pretty cool? In Aviation before backlit switches existed, they would use Radium to provide glow in the dark switches. Aside from the fact that many people who made these switches got sick from ingesting Radium when they would lick their brushes to have a fine tip, it was a cool idea. 3D scanning might be needed to help this out.

    -Luggage hardware. I plan to create my own set of luggage to go with my GT, tan to match the interior. The luggage would have 2 belts to hold it in place. Some of the hardware, like how the belts attach to the car, would be made.

    -Custom key fob badge. I've designed a 1" round badge that has the Blitz, Opel and GT in it. I'll need to make it out of metal, and then cut out the light bulb shaped key fob out of leather and then hand stitch it all up.

    -Not sure what material yet, I want to create a Varicam cam gear for the CIH and a custom single groove crank pulley that has timing marks on the front.

    Out of wood, using ash and then staining it black followed by a UV stable, clear epoxy (I'm going for the Mercedes black ash look):
    -Dash cluster. I want to cover the plastic with a black ash veneer.

    -Door handle pockets. The black plastic would be covered with a veneer. I actually already have the cutout shapes that are needed for this, using 3D printing to create the master shapes to trace into the veneer.

    -Headlight handle. This would need to be cut with a CNC machine I have out of ash, then dyed black and epoxied. The top would have a headlight symbol laser engraved in it. I have a Snapmaker (original type, not 2.0 coming out) that can do 3D printing, CNC and laser engraving. The symbol would be painted white, might be glow in the dark white like above.

    -ebrake handle. Again, CNC cut out of ash.

    -Steering wheel. I want to redo a steering wheel with ash, and keep it the same thickness as the stock steering wheel. All of the wood steering wheels you can buy, the wood is too thick. I have a friend that is a professional wood worker and he has an awesome wood lathe. I'd like to use a lathe to get the shape right, then take a curved metal file like is done with wooden steering wheels, to create the finger grooves. Black ash steering wheel is the idea, to go with all the other wood.

    -Shift knob. This would probably be done on the lathe as well, out of ash

    Part of me wonders about going with a satin finish instead of glossy epoxy. I'm not sure yet. One problem with a satin finish would be protecting the wood from oils on your hands. I might be able to give an epoxy top coat a light sanding to get a satin finish, instead of polishing it to a glossy one.

    I'm sure this list will grow and I've got pretty lofty goals for my car with all this. But this isn't just an addiction for me... it's gone way beyond that. My inspiration comes from cars like Singer 911's, Lamborghini Miura's, Ferrari 250 GT Lusso's, a 250 GTB done by GTO Engineering, Dino 246 GT's, Alfaholics' GTA-R, MZR 240Z's... I actually have a folder for inspiration. These crazy beautiful cars are fantastic examples of what happens when a car guy's addiction winds up making him mentally insane over that car. I know the GT can fit in that kind of company, but not in stock form. My constant inspiration as my desktop background is the attached photo. The paint, the interior, the beauty... and I have hundreds of equally lust-worthy photos of beautiful cars to keep pursuing these ideas.
    Last edited by Autoholic; 05-15-2019 at 02:27 AM.
    "Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn." ~Zeppi (myself)

    1973 Opel GT project car. Plans: 2.5L, Weber 38 DGAS, Getrag 240, Watts link, exterior color - Rainforest Green Pearl, interior color - tan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftus View Post
    SLA is without a doubt able to produce a very fine print. I just think you're being a little pedantic about the whole thing.

    Send me a file and I'll see what I can make on a $200 printer before I try it out on a more expensive machine. I currently have a 90+ hour print running, so it might be a few days before I can make a teeny tiny knob!
    What's your email? When you see the CAD files, I think you'll agree they are not really doable with FDM, at least not with a high degree of accuracy. I know that with my Snapmaker, I don't believe it can do it because other super fine details have been a problem in the past. So, I'd need to get a different 3D printer and that might as well be the Elegoo at $400. I did a bunch of research on entry level SLA printers and the Elegoo seemed to top the list for any SLA printer under $1,000. Why fight with a FDM at this level of detail, if you can get a good SLA printer for $400?
    Last edited by Autoholic; 05-15-2019 at 02:33 AM.
    "Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn." ~Zeppi (myself)

    1973 Opel GT project car. Plans: 2.5L, Weber 38 DGAS, Getrag 240, Watts link, exterior color - Rainforest Green Pearl, interior color - tan

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    Über Genius First opel 1981's Avatar
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    I'm not even close to being an expert on 3d printing but I have an entry level printer and can tell you they can be modified for incredible precision.

    The rirst thing I did, before even turning it on, was to replace all the timing gears with good aluminum ones.
    I also upgraded the flex couplers on the Z axis.

    If I had a better extruder, I have no doubt that I could get it to the .5mm range of accuracy, if not closer.
    I think people underestimate what these cheap printers can do with some very minor upgrades.
    Opel GTs are not GM products
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—
    Humans are not an endangered species!
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    I’m not saying they can’t be precise, I just see what they can do with rock solid accuracy for design features being 1mm. Under 1mm, the accuracy starts to drop. 1mm is still pretty dang small to have consistent results. If you go down to a 0.2mm nozzle, this accuracy can improve but in my experience you start fighting adhesion problems more with the first layers. I’m not an expert, this is just my experience. I haven’t tried a ton of different 3D printer brands either to see how they perform.

    But SLA is becoming fairly affordable now and that has much tighter printing tolerances and better surface finish straight out of the printer. So, my next printer will probably be a SLA one.

    And as far as the designs for the radio, the parts were designed for a SLA printer. Some of the dimensions are 0.06mm, which is 2 thousandths of an inch. That’s about the width of human hair.
    "Autoholism is an incurable addiction medicated daily with car porn." ~Zeppi (myself)

    1973 Opel GT project car. Plans: 2.5L, Weber 38 DGAS, Getrag 240, Watts link, exterior color - Rainforest Green Pearl, interior color - tan

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    Detritus Maximus opelbits's Avatar
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    Autoholic,
    Can't respond too much right now, I have a choice of cook dinner or do gardening....I'll cook.

    But, I do believe there was an airhorn made for the Weber DGV carbs. Could have been a K&N Stubstack. I remember they made them for various carbs, Holleys and such, but I seem to recall one being available for the Weber.

    Sauers makes stainable wood veneers with an adhesive backing. I was just looking at them at work yesterday. I think they were a new line from 3M.
    Autoholic likes this.
    "No, it's not fiberglass."
    "No, the motor is not in the back."
    "No, your friend in high school did not 'peg' his speedometer."

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