Double Crank Pulley
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Thread: Double Crank Pulley

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    3000 Post Club blancojp (R.I.P.)'s Avatar
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    Double Crank Pulley

    Hello all!

    I talked to a friend of mine about trying to modernize the pulley and belt system of the 1.9L. He had a few ideas and I had a few ideas so would like to run it by all of you for other opinions. Bear in mind that I have full machine shop access including CNC and other equipment so fabrication of a custom part is not a problem.

    There are two scenarios we are exploring:

    1) We make a serpentine belt/pulley system which can be easily expanded to include A/C or any other belt driven peripheral. This system would include either a single or double belt tensioner and fixed mounts for the alternator.

    2) We create an aluminum double crank, water pump and alternator pulleys to replace the existing units. A thin double belt drive system has crossed our minds since we use these on hot rods all of the time.

    This scenario came from having to put the A/C system on Stealth and no pulley to drive it. And since there is no harmonic balancer on the engine, the couple of hundred pulleys we have in stock are somewhat useless.

    Let us know what you think.
    Last edited by tekenaar; 02-25-2009 at 09:41 AM. Reason: Bare in mind . . . no thoughts? . . . bare = empty/naked
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    Opel Key Master opelspyder's Avatar
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    I have seen the whole setup available on German Ebay. Its on there all the time. I would see if anyone has purchased this kit and how well it worked. An alternator pulley may have the be purchased, and the a/c compressors can be ordered with a serpetine belt pulley as well. Due to the 1.9 being internally balanced, a harmonic balancer isn't used, but the A/C pulleys were balanced from the manufacturer by use of drill marks
    Keith
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    Tennessean Site Supporter hrcollinsjr's Avatar
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    I like the serpentine belts for various reasons but are we really gaining anything over a single belt system if we're not adding other accessories?

    Harold
    Last edited by hrcollinsjr; 02-25-2009 at 09:40 AM.
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    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter tekenaar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr View Post
    I like the serpentine belts for various reasons but are we really gaining anything over a single belt system if we're not adding other accessories?

    Harold
    . . . properly tensioned/triangulated, single/multi-groove V-belt accessory drive systems have been around since the very first car engines and, though serpentine belt sytems may well be better suited to modern engines driving many more accessories than ever thought of back in the day, they just don't look right on older engine accessory drives, IMO, and don't really gain anything over our trusty V-belts for the few accessories driven.


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."
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    UFOpel Investigator Site Supporter Aardvaark (R.I.P.)'s Avatar
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    I'm with Otto.

    I like the idea of sticking with the double groove pulley system like used on the factory and aftermarket ac systems since it seems more in keeping with classic originality of our Opels. It would allow for easier retrofitting of ac
    on existing cars without having to totally redo the front drive pulleys.
    Just went through this on my Manta and while the serpentine looks cleaner, it runs up the cost of adding ac significantly, imo.
    -Mark
    '75 Manta
    Having invested my life savings into
    this Opel Manta. I expect big returns.😅
    Link to my album of Opel catalogs
    and magazine articles:
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    3000 Post Club blancojp (R.I.P.)'s Avatar
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    The general Idea was to create a system with a slight underdrive to gain a small amount of power. The second idea was to have a pulley or serpentine system that was easily available.

    When you add A/C to your 1900 engine, the A/C components are easy to get. But then comes the chore of getting a double pulley for the crank which they are not as easy to get. Some people just weld a unit together, others seek Ebay until they get one. But if a unit or a set of pulleys would be available, the chore of finding one would be eliminated.

    For now I guess it would be easier to duplicate the double crank unit and make that available.
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    One draw back of a non-stock belt system is it would eliminate those that are using the WP w/ fan clutch as on the 75 models. On this pump ,the pulley is not removable and we are stuck with the standard v belt.
    Paul
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    Tennessean Site Supporter hrcollinsjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blancojp View Post
    The general Idea was to create a system with a slight underdrive to gain a small amount of power. The second idea was to have a pulley or serpentine system that was easily available.

    For now I guess it would be easier to duplicate the double crank unit and make that available.
    Juan, how about creating both a single and double pulley setup. Many of us have noticed that a lot of our single pulleys don't run true any more if they ever did.

    Harold
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    Site Founder Gary's Avatar
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    The crank pulley on my 6 cyl 3.0 Senator has 3 grooves. The inner one is the alt/fan and is the same as the 1.9's, the middle goes to the AC comp via an idler pulley and the third goes to the power steering and AC compressor . Those pulleys should be available in the UK or Germany. I didn't look close to see if it was one piece or not.

    The clutch on the AC compressor just went udders up in my Senny and I had to remove it and run a new belt to the power steering. runs much quieter now.
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    Cunning Linguist Site Supporter tekenaar's Avatar
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    LightbulbPre-'75 WP "clutch fan" pulley!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul View Post
    One draw back of a non-stock belt system is it would eliminate those that are using the WP w/ fan clutch as on the 75 models. On this pump ,the pulley is not removable and we are stuck with the standard v belt.
    . . . or you could fabricate this pulley . . .



    . . . and use any pre-'75 WP . . . you know, as in - cheaper and easier to find!


    1960: '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18
    1970: '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P
    1970: '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44
    1980: '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P
    2000: '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT "Stage 2" Turbo 5S 3.73P


    "De inimico non tantum loquaris male, sed cogites."
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    How 'bout just fabricate a hub that one or two or three pulleys could be bolted to? We talked about this long ago in a thread about undersize crank pulley. The pulleys that mount to this hub could be available in different sizes and styles (serp, V, gilmer). Spacers and shims to go between them and the hub or between multiple pulleys would make it a snap. You know, race car/hot rod type adaptability.
    Last edited by jeff denton; 02-26-2009 at 10:59 PM.
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    7,000 Post Club wrench459 (R.I.P.)'s Avatar
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    Juan are you thinking about a blower?
    AC my ace.
    Oh thats right power steering yeah thats the ticket.
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    3000 Post Club blancojp (R.I.P.)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeff denton View Post
    How 'bout just fabricate a hub that one or two or three pulleys could be bolted to? We talked about this long ago in a thread about undersize crank pulley. The pulleys that mount to this hub could be available in different sizes and styles (serp, V, gilmer). Spacers and shims to go between them and the hub or between multiple pulleys would make it a snap. You know, race car/hot rod type adaptability.
    I thought about this a while back but did not have anything to go by. I got a pulley from Gene yesterday and now I can see how to go about.

    Quote Originally Posted by wrench459 View Post
    Juan are you thinking about a blower?
    AC my ace.
    Oh thats right power steering yeah thats the ticket.
    I am developing a blower for the Opel, something simple which provides about7 psi of boost. If the hub is developed, I might be able to add a combination of two items. We are limited however due to the water line from the water pump to the radiator on one side, and the distributor on the other.

    But when the blower is done, I reckon there be a suthern redneck ridin rounds in a blown wagon!
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    Project 1450 supporter... Site Supporter RallyBob's Avatar
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    I made my own blower crank pulley for a future project car of mine. I took a stock Opel stamped steel crank pulley, and a multi-rib smog pump pulley off a Ford F350 pickup (351W) I had laying around. I drilled out the center of the Ford pulley (I think to 1.75"), and welded a short length of thin steel tube to the stock crank pulley with the same OD. Then the Ford pulley got centered on the tubing, and carefully centered on the Opel crank pulley (OD is nearly identical, about 1/32" smaller per side), and welded it in 4 places at the perimeter, and then fully welded at the center tube. So for zero $$ and about an hour's work, I got a blower drive pulley.

    Seen here on an engine at my Opel meet in January (just for display purposes, as it was already red and matched the engine!).
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by RallyBob; 03-01-2009 at 01:38 PM.
    davegt27 likes this.
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    '70 GT 'Bonnie', '71 Ascona 4-dr turbo - winter beater, '71 Ascona 4-dr 'Turd' - rallycar, '72 Ascona wagon - 'Red', '72 Manta - caged street car, '74 Manta Luxus - factory sunroof, '74 Manta ITB racecar, '75 Manta - racecar
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    3000 Post Club blancojp (R.I.P.)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RallyBob View Post
    I made my own blower crank pulley for a future project car of mine. I took a stock Opel stamped steel crank pulley, and a multi-rib smog pump pulley off a Ford F350 pickup (351W) I had laying around. I drilled out the center of the Ford pulley (I think to 1.75"), and welded a short length of thin steel tube to the stock crank pulley with the same OD. Then the Ford pulley got centered on the tubing, and carefully centered on the Opel crank pulley (OD is nearly identical, about 1/32" smaller per side), and welded it in 4 places at the perimeter, and then fully welded at the center tube. So for zero $$ and about and hour's work, I got a blower drive pulley.

    Seen here on an engine at my Opel meet in January (just for display purposes, as it was already red and matched the engine!).
    That would be another avenue I would use however that would defeat the purpose of making it available to everyone.
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    Project 1450 supporter... Site Supporter RallyBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blancojp View Post
    That would be another avenue I would use however that would defeat the purpose of making it available to everyone.
    No problem, I was just throwing it out there as an option. I get the feeling everyone seems to think I only do high-dollar mods, but I still like to recycle old parts and do home-built inexpensive alterations as well.

    Bob
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    '70 GT 'Bonnie', '71 Ascona 4-dr turbo - winter beater, '71 Ascona 4-dr 'Turd' - rallycar, '72 Ascona wagon - 'Red', '72 Manta - caged street car, '74 Manta Luxus - factory sunroof, '74 Manta ITB racecar, '75 Manta - racecar
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    Tennessean Site Supporter hrcollinsjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RallyBob View Post
    I get the feeling everyone seems to think I only do high-dollar mods, ... Bob

    Well Bob, maybe it's because you don't share your mundane work with us. Show us a headlight or driving light installation with a Wal Mart bag in the background, or seat covers from the Zone.

    Harold
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    Project 1450 supporter... Site Supporter RallyBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr View Post
    Well Bob, maybe it's because you don't share your mundane work with us. Show us a headlight or driving light installation with a Wal Mart bag in the background, or seat covers from the Zone.

    Harold
    Well, today I'm finishing up a cheapie project for myself. I'm building a safari-type roof rack for my '72 wagon. Two more bends and it's done! Made from recycled aluminum from a scrapyard...about $30 worth!

    I can do cheap....
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    '70 GT 'Bonnie', '71 Ascona 4-dr turbo - winter beater, '71 Ascona 4-dr 'Turd' - rallycar, '72 Ascona wagon - 'Red', '72 Manta - caged street car, '74 Manta Luxus - factory sunroof, '74 Manta ITB racecar, '75 Manta - racecar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RallyBob View Post
    I can do cheap....
    I respect cheap. Have long been into recycling stuff before recycling
    became popular.
    -Mark
    '75 Manta
    Having invested my life savings into
    this Opel Manta. I expect big returns.😅
    Link to my album of Opel catalogs
    and magazine articles:
    https://www.opelgt.com/photopost/show...ser/23031/sl/a
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    Supercharged 2.4 Gumby's Avatar
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    FYI - My 2.4i has a two belt drive pulley on the crank and looks relatively easy to copy if you have a CNC lathe /w live tooling. You could probably even make it out of aluminum if it were hard anodized.
    1972 Opel GT: 2.4, big brakes, efi - inprogress
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