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Thread: GT Body Unit Production Numbers

  1. #61
    Opeler Steve Daniels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8GT View Post
    3. U-shaped bracket on pedal mount which is GT nonfunctional and a carry over from Kadett.


    They start the produktion probably with unmodified Kadett floor panel´s.
    Same at the rear floor section.


    There are two holes per side which were in a differend way sealed. The inner with a rubber plug. The outer with a little piece of glued on sound-deadening mat (before paint procedure).
    Because im not sure, can somebody confirm that the inner hole aera are Kadett seatbelt attachement points?
    Crispy's pedal bracket also has the bracket.
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    1970 yellow Gt (Good girl)
    1970 red Gt (Ozz)
    1969 silver Aero Gt (Oscar)
    1969 Green Aero Gt (Crispy)

    "You have learned much,young one"
    "Your destiny lies with me"
    "It is ussless to resist"
    "There is no excape"
    "You have only begun to discover your power"
    "JOIN ME.... AND I WILL COMPLETE YOUR TRAINING"
    With our combined strength,we can end this distructive conflict and bring order to the OPEL GALAXY
    If you only knew the power of the ....
    OPEL SIDE

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  3. #62
    Opeler V8GT's Avatar
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    Hello Steve,

    Thank you very much for posting the pic´s.

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    Opeler Steve Daniels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8GT View Post
    I would like to do more research about the relationship between the leftside body number(#L) and early unique body details.
    The following are not as rare as the mentioned inner-weel arch panel from post #47, but still rare. Steve, Bill and all other members who ones GT´s with #L approximately lower than #2000, please check this out and give me /us feedback.

    1. The window door frames have a additional rubber bump stop in front.


    Surprisingly after removing the bump stop appear a additional unused hole.


    @Steve: I hope you still have the cut of door frames from „Crispy“. If the doors dont have the additional bumpstops, please look under the burnt paint after weld shut holes in that area. Because i seen this i guess the body manufacturer maybe „updated“ this way „old“ door frames.

    2. Since we speak about doors. Passenger door-handle with chrom brezel.

    The handle itself is different because the „attachement foots“ are longer and have two screw´s per foot instead of of one. Consequence, the door shell have to have additional holes.
    Crispy's passanger door also has the 2 screw holes each for the handle.
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    1970 yellow Gt (Good girl)
    1970 red Gt (Ozz)
    1969 silver Aero Gt (Oscar)
    1969 Green Aero Gt (Crispy)

    "You have learned much,young one"
    "Your destiny lies with me"
    "It is ussless to resist"
    "There is no excape"
    "You have only begun to discover your power"
    "JOIN ME.... AND I WILL COMPLETE YOUR TRAINING"
    With our combined strength,we can end this distructive conflict and bring order to the OPEL GALAXY
    If you only knew the power of the ....
    OPEL SIDE

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  6. #64
    Member Dmcbrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Daniels View Post
    Crispy's passanger door also has the 2 screw holes each for the handle.
    Both of my 1970s have the double holes on the Passenger side interior door handle. I don't know if they were added or if they came from the factory that way. The second one has only 47,000 original miles, but the interior was changed to blue, early in it's life. I found the body number, but I'm having a tough time reading it through two coats of paint. Here's a couple of pictures of the number.
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    Opeler V8GT's Avatar
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    Hello Dmcbrass,

    Thanks for posting the body nr pic. Interesting to see that it is a GT from the „Bochum- production-line“. This can identified by the prefix „20“.
    As unit number i read: „21 728“.

    As i mention in post #8, only 25% of total GT production were painted and assembled on this line and it seems that most of them were build in 69 (BB marked).
    In 1970 they slowed dowen the GT produktion on this line to a very low volume. Rule of thumb: 1970 „Bochum-GT“(„20“ marked) like yours a quite rar.

    Beside the body # there are many other indicators to identify a „Bochum-GT“. This require of course a GT in original condition.
    A quick look under the bonnet show:



    1. U shaped bar around the breake rod is black and not car colored.
    2. Wiring loom in engine-bay is gray and not black covered.
    3. Not on this pic, but in most cases you will see the Delco „square“ style coil and not the Bosch „round“ type.

    4. Many other small differences all over the car. To much to list.

  8. #66
    Member opeljohn's Avatar
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    I decided to bump this up as it ties in somewhat to Roy Bell's flat panel thread.

  9. #67
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    I went back and reviewed the post's on this thread. I wonder if the discrepancy between the number of bodies shipped in 1968 could be explained by the extra 700+ bodies being some of the early BB white bodies. Although it would seem the line in Germany was started in 1969 maybe they shipped some bodies early to have on hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by opeljohn View Post
    I went back and reviewed the post's on this thread. I wonder if the discrepancy between the number of bodies shipped in 1968 could be explained by the extra 700+ bodies being some of the early BB white bodies. Although it would seem the line in Germany was started in 1969 maybe they shipped some bodies early to have on hand.
    John, In post #27 of this thread, I mention that according to my reading of the Projekt 1484 book, they started sending some bodies directly from Chausson to Bochum about March 1969. Since my body number of U1477 should have been produced in 1968, according to Opel, the car wasn't completed until March 1969. My guess is that the repairing of some faults in some of the early bodies accounts for much of the time discrepancy. Bill

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    Super Moderator Ooooner's Avatar
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    Ok... Here is a picture of the body stamp on my 69 GT that has the flat panel... Can anything be interpreted from this?
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    1973 Opel GT
    Concord, North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8GT View Post
    First:
    „U“ stand for body dedicated for the US market. In oposite to the european GT, this bodys has to have a cutout in the quarter panel for the sidemrkers.

    Second:
    Belief it or not charles, but ALL GT-bodys inclusive 12 prototypes were made in France and „usually“ also painted end equipped at the French based factory B&L. The assembling of drivetrain and axels for ALL GT happend in the german factory in Bochum.
    But there is one big exeption. Doe to high costumer demand, exact 24 043 blank bodys came as „body in white“ to the german faktory in Bochum. This bodys were painted and completely assembeled in Bochum. This happend in early 69 antil the end of 1970.

    So you can say the were parallel two production lines. The body Nr for both lines are independetly count and in a different way marked.
    What it makes a little bit complicated ist he fact that the mark for the „second“ line (i.e. in Bochum painted and completely assembled cars) differs between 69 and 70.

    In 69 it is a „BB“ after/under the body Nr. and in 1970 it is a „20“ as a prefix before the body Nr.

    1969 GT from "Bochum" production line



    1970 GT from "B&L" production line


    The „normal“ in France painted and equipped GT have since 1970 corresponding a „10“ as a prefix.
    In 1969 there isn`t a mark on these bodys.

    In summary:
    Normal line (B&L): 69 - no mark, 70-73 - „10“ as prefix.
    Second line (Bochum): 69 – „BB“, 70 – „20“ as prefix.

    There are also some other little differences between the GT´s from both produktion lines, but this is another story...

    OK, I'm a little slow here, but the second pic above (1970 B&L) does NOT have a "10" prefix, but does have a "20" for the first 2 digits. Doesn't that make it a 1970(+) Bochum? If there is no mark, it would be a 1969 B&L? Help, I thought I was understanding, but not now!

    Doug

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    Bill
    My earlier post was more directed to your #31 post but it and the #27post are tied together.

    From my reading I would infer that Eric's 69GT #U790 would have been completed between March and June of 1969. This would also be true of the GT Roy Bell has inquired about.

    Knowing a little bit about how things work my question was more towards when the decision was made to ramp up production at a second line. Also how much lead time to start said line. If I understand right there was only one production line for the raw bodies. If so and if Jose's contention there could be two bodies stamped with the same number ( one for each of two lines) is true. How and when did they start the numeric stamping for the Bochum GT,s ? Could some of the Shipping to Bochum in December of 1968 have been unfinished bodies for the future production line or were unfinished bodies not shipped until March of 1969. This would seem to fit the difference between finished bodies shipped and total bodies shipped.

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    Slracer

    Jose does correct himself in a later post, it is indeed a Bochum finished GT.

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    Thank you John for clarifing this.
    The body´s for the two differnt assembling lines were count and stamped separat in sequence how you mention correct.

    - B&L-line starting body #1001
    - Bochum-line starting body # i dont know exactly. The lowest Bochum body nr. i know is #225 and highest is # 23 464 from total of 24 043 assembled Bochum line GT. So i guess they started with #101 or #001 for Bochum body´s.

    In the past i thought like others the dicision to set the second assembling line was taken after the regular production has started but this is not true. I have seen factory documents dated may 1968 which are related to the Bochum line! This fact indicates that the second line was always scheduled and makes all much more complicated…


    @ Roy: Thank you for posting the body stamp. I guess your GT have a low 94 18 XXXXX VIN and is build in June 69. Is this true?

  16. #74
    Super Moderator Ooooner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by V8GT View Post
    @ Roy: Thank you for posting the body stamp. I guess your GT have a low 94 18 XXXXX VIN and is build in June 69. Is this true?
    Thanks for the information Jose'.

    The vin number is: AL 941844811

    Here is a picture of some documentation I have with the car. Of course, I can't read this but maybe someone can?
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    Quote Originally Posted by opeljohn View Post
    Bill
    My earlier post was more directed to your #31 post but it and the #27post are tied together.

    From my reading I would infer that Eric's 69GT #U790 would have been completed between March and June of 1969. This would also be true of the GT Roy Bell has inquired about.

    Knowing a little bit about how things work my question was more towards when the decision was made to ramp up production at a second line. Also how much lead time to start said line. If I understand right there was only one production line for the raw bodies. If so and if Jose's contention there could be two bodies stamped with the same number ( one for each of two lines) is true. How and when did they start the numeric stamping for the Bochum GT,s ? Could some of the Shipping to Bochum in December of 1968 have been unfinished bodies for the future production line or were unfinished bodies not shipped until March of 1969. This would seem to fit the difference between finished bodies shipped and total bodies shipped.

    Well, John, I went back to the Projekt 1484 books, both the original one and the newer one. I had long been puzzled by the difference in the number of finished bodies which B&L shipped to Bochu8m and the total number which the French railway said that they had shipped. B&L completed 1866 bodies, but shipped only 1453 of them to Bochum in calendar year 1968. But, French railway transported 2176 in 1968. The new edition of the book has some additional information. Opel completed only 541 GTs during calendar 1968. They carried over 912 of the finished bodies shipped from B&L into calendar year 1969. But, in the new edition, the author states Bochum also carried over 723 Rohkasserien, or "rough bodies." So, they had started getting some bodies without any assembly by B&L during 1968. But why were they bringing the rough bodies to Bochum when they had been able to complete only a bit over a third of the "finished" bodies they had gotten from B&L? It appears that the bodies were transported by truck from Chausson to B&L. Then some of them were placed on the rail cars for transport to Bochum without any assembly by B&L. When did they start the stamping of the BB? I have no idea. The total number of bodies transported to Bochum in September 1968 was eight. October, 192. November 568. December, 1408. That large increase in the number for December could cover the 723 rough bodies. When we find some answers, it raises some new questions. Bill

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    Bill & Jose

    Thanks for your input on this. I think little by little we are getting a better understanding of what may have occurred during early production of the GT. I did have some doubts that a corporate entity could move fast enough to start a production line in the time frame we were first led to believe. Some of this other info would seems to explain things better.

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    Opeler V8GT's Avatar
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    Hello Bill, you ask verry good questions.

    First, i am pretty sure that all left side BUN were stamped inhouse the body manufacturer Chausson.

    A few production numbers in Stefan Müller´s book „Opel GT Die Geschichte von Projekt 1484“ were taken from this B&L sheet:



    I discused many times with him how this numbers, in comparsion with the French railway statistik, had to be enterpred. We come to the result that there is only one logical explenation for the difference of 723 units. They must be blank withe body´s who bypassed the B&L plant direct to Bochum to the second assembling line.

    A very few of this 723 bodys were painted and assembled in Bochum as well in 1968. #268 for example was registered in January 20, 1969 but the VIN 94 16 56891 indicates a build date in early Dec 68.
    I think it is possible that there are some „BB-GT´s“ under the completed 541 GT´s which left the Opel factory in calender 68.

    Don´t try to estimate the total amount of this car´s over the BUN because in that early stage of production the body´s were not assembled in secuence. Expect big gaps and mismatch in relation to VIN.

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    Quote Originally Posted by V8GT View Post
    Hello Bill, you ask verry good questions.

    First, i am pretty sure that all left side BUN were stamped inhouse the body manufacturer Chausson.

    A few production numbers in Stefan Müller´s book „Opel GT Die Geschichte von Projekt 1484“ were taken from this B&L sheet:



    I discused many times with him how this numbers, in comparsion with the French railway statistik, had to be enterpred. We come to the result that there is only one logical explenation for the difference of 723 units. They must be blank withe body´s who bypassed the B&L plant direct to Bochum to the second assembling line.

    A very few of this 723 bodys were painted and assembled in Bochum as well in 1968. #268 for example was registered in January 20, 1969 but the VIN 94 16 56891 indicates a build date in early Dec 68.
    I think it is possible that there are some „BB-GT´s“ under the completed 541 GT´s which left the Opel factory in calender 68.

    Don´t try to estimate the total amount of this car´s over the BUN because in that early stage of production the body´s were not assembled in secuence. Expect big gaps and mismatch in relation to VIN.
    GT VIN 94 16 56891 appears to be an unusual car. As I read the information on the GT register site, it has both window cranks at the higher position, and it has the indentation at the license plate position. So, even though it is a very early GT, it has at least two features of the later cars. Does Micheal D. still own this car? Bill

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    Some thoughts on all of this.

    The Bun and Vin for the GT would roughly correlate to conception and birth.

    What I understand from posts so far.
    Jose states documents indicate the 2nd production line at Bochum was is discussion at least as early as May of 68.
    That production line is where all GT's got their drive trains and were assigned their VIN plates. The BUN number is what shows where paint and interior finish were performed. The GT's do not have sequential VIN's due to the fact they were interspersed with other models at final assembly, I.E. a GT may have been between 2 Kadett's coming down the line. Also the Gt's, although they had sequential BUN's were not completed in that order due to production flaws and perhaps just being picked from stock at random. All of that said, the BUN may hint at the time of conception but the VIN would give a more accurate date of finish or birth if you will.

    I am led to believe that some of the early raw bodies had to have been sent to Bochum as test mules on the assembly line. The VIN on BB228 would seem to confirm that and logic would seem to dictate some early training to prepare the line workers. If I were in charge I would also want to stockpile some raw bodies before starting full scale production on the Bochum Line. This would certainly account for the heavy December 68 shipments. Unless an employee from that time frame can clear all this up it will more than likely remain hazy.

    And of course there is that confounding question of what constitutes a 1968 GT.
    Would it require a build date before October 1968?
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    Body nr

    Mine is 4500 No letters
    any ideas?

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