Any interest in 1.9L to 2.4L rebuilds?
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Thread: Any interest in 1.9L to 2.4L rebuilds?

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    Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer GoinManta's Avatar
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    Any interest in 1.9L to 2.4L rebuilds?

    Looking over the (lets not say old.. the previous article from times gone by) article Bob wrote for the OANA, and the fact that I know the shop I get my Bitter worked on is always looking for more work. Combined with the fact others here are starting to have trouble finding good 2.2L and 2.4L motors to install (thank you mr. 1.45 to the $1 Euro).

    I know that Sportscarworkshop here in Richmond can build the 2.4L froma 1.9L conversion using Bob Legeres guidelines.

    Would anyone be interested in one? I could drop by thier place with the article and see what it would cost for you all.

    Charles
    CURRENT
    '71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D (2.0 L w/ EFI & Auto) - "Mary Ann"
    '92 Senator B - "Professor"
    '74 Opel Manta - "Barbara"
    '72 Opel GT - "Red Baron"

    In the past owned:
    '04, '05, '06 Pontiac GTO
    2 Bitters (#491/#439)
    '73 Commodore GS
    ATLAS ( 74 Manta w/ 2.8L LK5 )
    & many many other Opels and a even few GTs

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    Project 1450 supporter... Site Supporter RallyBob's Avatar
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    So, this means I'll be getting royalty checks once you start cranking these babies out, right Charles?

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    Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer GoinManta's Avatar
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    Probably not.. but I will have a really good shop in my gratitude if all goes well.

    Not to mention, unlike other outsourcing done here, I will be 1/2 a mile away and be able to go and directly ask how things are going and talk to them in person should problems arise.

    It will also provide a new source for people to get work done. Since we have so few.

    Charles
    CURRENT
    '71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D (2.0 L w/ EFI & Auto) - "Mary Ann"
    '92 Senator B - "Professor"
    '74 Opel Manta - "Barbara"
    '72 Opel GT - "Red Baron"

    In the past owned:
    '04, '05, '06 Pontiac GTO
    2 Bitters (#491/#439)
    '73 Commodore GS
    ATLAS ( 74 Manta w/ 2.8L LK5 )
    & many many other Opels and a even few GTs

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    Currently in Opel Detox. bret brummitt's Avatar
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    you've perked up my ears. No commitment, but definate interest.

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    Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer GoinManta's Avatar
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    Ok.. good to know.

    Enough interest and it may be worth taking his time to ask. he and the shop are realy busy this time of year.

    Charles
    CURRENT
    '71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D (2.0 L w/ EFI & Auto) - "Mary Ann"
    '92 Senator B - "Professor"
    '74 Opel Manta - "Barbara"
    '72 Opel GT - "Red Baron"

    In the past owned:
    '04, '05, '06 Pontiac GTO
    2 Bitters (#491/#439)
    '73 Commodore GS
    ATLAS ( 74 Manta w/ 2.8L LK5 )
    & many many other Opels and a even few GTs

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    2000 Post Club soybean's Avatar
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    I'd be interested too, Charles. I have 5 engines and a few short blocks that I've collected through the years. I would like a "Fresh" engine (s) to work with. Everything I have has over 100K on it and is at a minimum 30 years old. Would this be a turnkey job, them suppling everything, or would the person have to supply the various engine components? The next question is the price. When you find out let me know. Thanks Jarrell

  9. #7
    Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer GoinManta's Avatar
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    Since the conversion used mainly the existing Opel parts or new chevy parts, etc.. I would assume a turnkey operation. All depends.

    I will contact them and see what they say.

    Charles
    CURRENT
    '71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D (2.0 L w/ EFI & Auto) - "Mary Ann"
    '92 Senator B - "Professor"
    '74 Opel Manta - "Barbara"
    '72 Opel GT - "Red Baron"

    In the past owned:
    '04, '05, '06 Pontiac GTO
    2 Bitters (#491/#439)
    '73 Commodore GS
    ATLAS ( 74 Manta w/ 2.8L LK5 )
    & many many other Opels and a even few GTs

  10. #8
    Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer GoinManta's Avatar
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    Gave them the article, and they are interested in doing it. Going to price things up and give me a price later. They couldn't do one right now.. they have too much work. But once racing season is over and all the little convertibles go in for the winter they will need the work.

    Charles
    CURRENT
    '71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D (2.0 L w/ EFI & Auto) - "Mary Ann"
    '92 Senator B - "Professor"
    '74 Opel Manta - "Barbara"
    '72 Opel GT - "Red Baron"

    In the past owned:
    '04, '05, '06 Pontiac GTO
    2 Bitters (#491/#439)
    '73 Commodore GS
    ATLAS ( 74 Manta w/ 2.8L LK5 )
    & many many other Opels and a even few GTs

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    Opel Addict Since 73 Sportwagon75's Avatar
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    Perhaps

    Charles - Since it's "that" close...I may be interested as well. Not sure if this is the right thread to ask this question...but: I'm curious if the stock 1.9 fuel injection setup would be sufficient for a 2.2 or 2.4 upgrade such as this??
    Scott D.

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    Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer GoinManta's Avatar
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    Quite possible, since this a 1.9L to 2.4L conversion. The answer would be no on a actual 2.2L or 2.4L rebuild due to the intakes on the head being different.

    I would think the guys at www.injection.com could put together a injector package that would work. Basically you would need a injector like the one on the Bitter 3.9L, but without the resistance. I would also find a Bosch L-Jet computer for a similar powered car that uses the same upgraded injectors.

    With the 3.9L Bitter borrowed a BMW 3.3L Injector, Computer, Wiring Harness, AFM, and matched them to the Opel manifolds, throttle sensor and pressure regulator. It worked like a charm.

    A similar approach should work with this.
    CURRENT
    '71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D (2.0 L w/ EFI & Auto) - "Mary Ann"
    '92 Senator B - "Professor"
    '74 Opel Manta - "Barbara"
    '72 Opel GT - "Red Baron"

    In the past owned:
    '04, '05, '06 Pontiac GTO
    2 Bitters (#491/#439)
    '73 Commodore GS
    ATLAS ( 74 Manta w/ 2.8L LK5 )
    & many many other Opels and a even few GTs

  13. #11
    Opel Addict Since 73 Sportwagon75's Avatar
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    VW Injection

    Charles - I recently stumbled across a treasure trove of mid-to-late 70's VW busses that have AFM's & computers that will plug right into our Opels. I'm wondering what would go best with a 2.2 or 2.4 upgrade. Kinda hoping that Rally Bob will chime in here. Do you still have that Bosch bible you showed me?? I'd like to borrow it someday soon. -SD
    Scott D.

  14. #12
    Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer GoinManta's Avatar
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    The real trick would be to get HP, stroke, cam specs, displacement, etc.. and compare that to the 2.4L specs. Then you can make a adequate comparison.

    The VW ECUs, and AFM I have been told work well in the Opels. But the two people I know that have played with mixing and matching did it by just plugging things in and seeing how they work.

    Bosch had hundreds of parts numbers for the ECU, and now has cut them down and consolidated numbers. Case in point is the ECU for the Bitter, used to fit only the 633, and 733. But recently the replacement Bosch part number opens it up to Jags, a few Volvos, etc.. meaning the "performance" of the other cars, is equal. So they basically take the specs of the best average peroming ECU and use it on all of them.

    Its tricky. No doubt.

    http://www.injector.com might be able to help they may have some of that data. But I doubt it, they don't mess with the old systems much anymore. you can borrow my Bosch book anytime.

    Charles
    CURRENT
    '71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D (2.0 L w/ EFI & Auto) - "Mary Ann"
    '92 Senator B - "Professor"
    '74 Opel Manta - "Barbara"
    '72 Opel GT - "Red Baron"

    In the past owned:
    '04, '05, '06 Pontiac GTO
    2 Bitters (#491/#439)
    '73 Commodore GS
    ATLAS ( 74 Manta w/ 2.8L LK5 )
    & many many other Opels and a even few GTs

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    Senior Contributor calvin's Avatar
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    This week my machine shop here is working on my second, 305 pistons, Legere Style 1900 (now a 1900LS), that’s what I call it anyway, not a royalty payment per say but if you tell a official at a racetrack you are running a "Legere "1900 they instantly bump you up two or three classes BEFORE they even opening the hood! However if you tell them you have a 1900LS they just mumble yeah, yeah, Opel...whatever and send you over with the fiats 850ies, skoda's and daf's instead of with the Porsche 935's. and M1's (seriously)

    Since with this form there are more pictures and thanks to Bob and others it is much easier to explain to the shop what needs to be unshrouded or how and where to make a teardrop because you can hand them a picture and say like this...(an hope that the picture was right side up).

    Here we have a cache of about 9 blocks. The blocks are much stronger than the heads. Too bad we don't have a cache of the Omega Carlton heads.. Cutting that down to fit the CIH would be a good project

  16. #14
    Detritus Maximus opelbits's Avatar
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    Calvin and I had talked about a similiar operation. One of the things we had discussed was the idea of offering just the LS 2.4 short block, no head. This would allow a prodigious increase in cc's for a reasonable amount of money, but not the cost of a full hot rod motor.

    I'm not sure how much power a stock 1.9 or 2.0 head would produce on the LS 2.4 block, but it might be worth finding out as a baseline.
    "No, it's not fiberglass."
    "No, the motor is not in the back."
    "No, your friend in high school did not 'peg' his speedometer."

  17. #15
    U-2 Driver T-6 driver's Avatar
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    What is the total cost?

    What ended up being the total cost for "BOB's" 1.9-2.4 motor?

  18. #16
    Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer GoinManta's Avatar
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    No answer yet...
    CURRENT
    '71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D (2.0 L w/ EFI & Auto) - "Mary Ann"
    '92 Senator B - "Professor"
    '74 Opel Manta - "Barbara"
    '72 Opel GT - "Red Baron"

    In the past owned:
    '04, '05, '06 Pontiac GTO
    2 Bitters (#491/#439)
    '73 Commodore GS
    ATLAS ( 74 Manta w/ 2.8L LK5 )
    & many many other Opels and a even few GTs

  19. #17
    Senior Contributor calvin's Avatar
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    a quote from the economo rebuild post

    On the subject of alternate pistons to use in a 1.9 CIH rebuild, I thought a friend of mine here in Calgary (John Warga) was getting his engine built up with Chevy 305 pistons. And today there is a post on the classicopels list that describes an engnie built to a so-called "Legere" spec. Apologies in advance to RallyBob, since it was built using a bunch of RallyBob's comments and ideas, not with his in-estimable skill and attention to detail.

    Anyway, Calvin used a set of 0.030 over 305 pistons that were only $15 each (see http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=8469) which gave him a 3.766 inch (65.66 mm) bore. Here is the guts of Calvin's post:

    My version of a Legere 1.9 engine all gleaned from posts by Bob
    Legere on whatever sight I could find them and other opel posters
    (mainly Bob really, and Mr Legere sir if you read this thank you very
    much will all respect)

    The pistons (buy the molly rings at the same time) 4 x $15
    the rings are $50
    http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=8469 those are 30 over 305 pistons.
    Main bearing ms988l.25 $94.88 (OGTS is cheaper)
    Rod bearings 1173al $42.12
    Sh-1193s cam bearings $31.03
    1.50 EX CHEVY your machine shop I paid $40
    Intake valves 1.84 Chevy your machine shop $40
    Valve seals- your shop $16
    Solid Lifters Opel GT source $128
    Flywheel bolts Opel GT source $28
    New timing chain Opel horse-traded
    Timing chain tentioners Opel GT source $78
    Timing chain cover (if needed) Opel GT source that comes with tensioners and is like $300
    Comp995-16 springs (dual) 105.61 must buy for v8 $100 ******NOTE Don't use these use the Crower ones bob calls for in the tips and tricks post
    Titanium retainers ----- $100 must buy for v8
    Molly rings for the above pistons get from summit when you order the pistons must buy for v8
    Crank 450 crankshaft craftsmen Detroit MI, plus shipping there and back
    Complete gasket set OGTS $128
    Head Ported, hard valve seats, chafed oil passages all aligned,
    balanced, engine bored and decked assembled....your shops price...
    13 pound flywheel pvt source
    486lift cam $125 get a cam from Cam techniquies in florida the F275 b2106 is a good one 430 lift 270 [email protected] 108 sep
    2 One year old used DCOE 40ies webers plus rebuild and manifolds prior to porting the manifolds $650 ******Don't meess around like I did buy at least DCOE 45 if not 48ies just get new ones its cheaper than rebuilding and changing everything inside
    Including having the cannon manifolds welded up and ported and my headers flat plained and a pinhole plugged I paid the machine shop called peak performance of St Louis $2461and the stuff I got from outside sources plus the ogts stuff the engine was about $3000+


    =========
    still 2000-3000 for a new engine is what you pay for any new crate motor.


    I am sure I will have close to $4500 in the new one

    I will price the new engine with roller rockers
    out as soon as I get the bill.


    I bet you could do a 1900 L 265 block for less than 500 and a 1900 LS 305 block for around 800 once you figure in all the little things you always forget like magnafluxing chamfing and gaskets. Less if you can do the dis and the assembly.
    Last edited by calvin; 06-11-2004 at 06:57 PM.

  20. #18
    U-2 Driver T-6 driver's Avatar
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    What is the difference between using the 265 pistons and the 305. I thought that the 305's were only good for the stroker motors with the welded crank? How much did it cost to have the crank welded?

  21. #19
    Senior Contributor calvin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-6 driver
    What is the difference between using the 265 pistons and the 305. I thought that the 305's were only good for the stroker motors with the welded crank? How much did it cost to have the crank welded?
    it is listed in the above post. around 500 with shipping

  22. #20
    Old Opeler GTJIM's Avatar
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    265 vs 305 Pistons

    Quote Originally Posted by T-6 driver
    What is the difference between using the 265 pistons and the 305. I thought that the 305's were only good for the stroker motors with the welded crank? How much did it cost to have the crank welded?
    265 Chevy Pistons - compression height is 1.805"

    305 Chevy Pistons - compression height is 1.561"

    So yes 305s are only usable in the stroker motor - the "welded" crank is what is being done during stroking the crank to provide enough metal for the stroke increase. Done by Crankshaft Craftsmen in Detroit MI. for $450 including shipping both ways!
    GTJim
    Opel Owner since last Century!

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