[zippy7575]

Old news to some, I'm sure, but this is obviously the basis for the GT as well as the C3 Corvette. First use I've seen of the round headlights (vs rectangular on the GT prototype) and look at the cowl and shape of the windshield, which are more GT than Corvette. The rear fender area looks like a GT with a Firebird window.

The good news is that can be yours for only $1.2 million.

1964 Pontiac Banshee XP-833 Concept Car Listed at $1.2 Million

Back when the Ford Motor Company was putting the finishing touches on the first-generation Mustang pony car, John DeLorean was developing a Pontiac sports car that would greatly influence the C3 Corvette together with the dazzling Mako Shark II show car penned by Larry Shinoda.

www.autoevolution.com

 

[soybean]

Only, 1.2 million. Really? Oh wait, I got that.

 

[Autoholic]

It's been talked about on here before. Last time it was for sale, it was at a Kia dealership. Looks like it's still at that Kia dealership (Napoli Kia), they have added a classic car side to the business.

1964 Pontiac Banshee

The John DeLorean designed, 1964 Pontiac Banshee XP-833 concept car:

www.opelgt.com

Pontiac banshee -> opel gt???

carsinpedia.com car of the day

www.opelgt.com

Pontiac XP-833 Banshee

Luckily the Opel GT made it past these same GM execs Many of the styling cues look familiar. ------------------------ https://www.yahoo.com/autos/worlds-only-1964-pontiac-xp-133300109.html "Rumor says that Chevrolet execs didn't like having another two-seater sports car in the GM fold...

www.opelgt.com

 

[SpringGT]

Maybe! Let me go check my couch cushions for the money.

 

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

Looks pretty tame compared to the Mako Shark II developed the same year. The fender humps are rather subdued compared to this:

And my favorite story: "An apocryphal story has it that Mitchell had an actual mako shark mounted on the wall in his office, and ordered his team to paint the car to match the distinctive blue-gray upper surface blending into the white underside of the fish. After numerous attempts to match the shark's color scheme failed, the team hit upon the idea of kidnapping the fish one night, painting it to match their best efforts on the car, and returning it to the office. Mitchell never realized the difference and pronounced himself pleased with the team's duplication of nature's handiwork on the car."

 

[The Scifi Guy]

No pics of the rather nice interior, so here it is:

I don't know this for sure, but, like the GT prototype in the Opel museum, the headlights don't pop up. I think the concept was never completed on this car also. I've never seen pics of the Banshee with the headlights up and Charles Goin, who visited the Opel museum last year, tells me that the flip over or up mechanism was never worked out and installed on the GT prototype. I guess they left it up to the French at the Brissoneau plant.

 

[MikeNotigan]

Old news to some, I'm sure, but this is obviously the basis for the GT as well as the C3 Corvette. First use I've seen of the round headlights (vs rectangular on the GT prototype) and look at the cowl and shape of the windshield, which are more GT than Corvette. The rear fender area looks like a GT with a Firebird window.

The good news is that can be yours for only $1.2 million.

Not from everything I've read pertaining to Erhard Schnell's 65 Experimental GT, the Mako Shark II or the Banshee concept (and add into this design mix the earlier Chevrolet Corvair Monza GT designed by C2 Corvette designer Larry Shinoda, also the man behind the 69 and 70 Ford Mustang Boss 302's) Each company within GM may have fell under Bill Mitchell's styling department edicts, but there was no cross pollination nor cooperation between Opel, Chevrolet or Pontiac. None at all. The only commonality are the raised fender humps on all three show cars and I believe that was a requirement that Mitchell wanted via his communications with the american Opel design head, Clare MacKichan for the Experimental GT (who was sent to Opel via GM in 1962 to head their design of new cars with added US flair). And those fender humps are traced back to Shinoda's earlier Corvair Monza GT.

But why not hear it from the man himself, who penned the design of the 65 Experimental GT? In this clip, Mr Schnell speaks of how italian design (the Pininfarina Ferrari's) were more an influence on his design direction than anything out of Detroit.

So, to recap for the record: DeLorean (a percieved "rebel" by Upper Floor Corporate's in GM Headquarters) at Pontiac wanted a two seat sports car that could be seen as a challenger to the Chevrolet's Corvette, the result being the Banshee prototype......... Meanwhile, at Chevrolet, the 65 Mako Shark II paved the way for the new styling remake of the C3 Shark Corvette of 68. After it's show car tour was over, it was redone into the Manta Ray concept car. No molds of Mako Shark II were ever made available to the public as stated in the Maco Shark kit car video. The kit car molds were made by a fellow named John Silva. However, a fellow in Switzerland did create from scratch, a perfect replica of the 65 Mako Shark II, using GM Patent drawings. It is an amazing build........And over at Opel, Erhard Schnell had an idea of a two seat sports car for old and dowdy Opel and was encouraged by Clare MacKichan to proceed, resulting in the 65 Experimental GT.

Swiss one-off built Mako Shark II replica:

 

[kwilford]

I don't know this for sure, but, like the GT prototype in the Opel museum, the headlights don't pop up. I think the concept was never completed on this car also. Charles Goin, who visited the Opel museum last year, tells me that the flip over or up mechanism was never worked out and installed on the GT prototype. I guess they left it up to the French at the Brissoneau plant.

The mechanical (and apparently vacuum powered) bits that open the 1965 Experimental GT headlights are clearly visible as soon as the hood is open. I saw that back in 2016 when I drove it around the Russelsheim Plant grounds. Perhaps you misheard Charles.

A quick Google also provided the attached image.

The various reference sources suggest that Brissoneau & Lotz designed the GT productiom headlights, including the gear and cable mechanisms. I don't know where the oval headlight openings originated from, but I suspect that the design group at Opel Russelsheim under Erhard Schnell came up with that.

 

[Autoholic]

The Banshee never had operational headlights. The concept GT had headlights that worked and it’s not like ordinary pop up headlights are hard to figure out.

when you look at the experimental GT, it wasn’t influenced by other cars in GM which were also being worked on at the same time. Most of the experimental GT wound up in the production GT. It was just refined to be sexier and more aerodynamic. Remember that the GT was the first car tested in a wind tunnel for GM.

 

[The Scifi Guy]

The mechanical (and apparently vacuum powered) bits that open the 1965 Experimental GT headlights are clearly visible as soon as the hood is open. I saw that back in 2016 when I drove it around the Russelsheim Plant grounds. Perhaps you misheard Charles.

A quick Google also provided the attached image.

The various reference sources suggest that Brissoneau & Lotz designed the GT productiom headlights, including the gear and cable mechanisms. I don't know where the oval headlight openings originated from, but I suspect that the design group at Opel Russelsheim under Erhard Schnell came up with that.

Thank you for correcting what I was told, Keith! Apparently you can't even trust some people who saw things in person. Your pic clearly shows the mechanism. That's what I get for trusting the words of Charlie(again) who has been wrong about certain things before.

😀

 

[The Scifi Guy]

Perhaps you misheard Charles.

Maybe he was talking about the clay model. Are there other GT prototypes in the museum besides the yellow-ish one?

 

[kwilford]

Maybe he was talking about the clay model. Are there other GT prototypes in the museum besides the yellow-ish one?

There is a clay model that is half-Experimental, half-production GT, although it wasn't at the Museum when I was there in 2016. Clearly, NOTHING on that model works.

I don't recall any other Opel GT prototypes, except the GT-W (the Wankel-powered show car). I do not believe that is a "working" model.

For clarity, most "show cars" are just for show. They might roll, but very very few can run, and fewer can be driven on the street. In the case of the two GT Experimental show cars, they were both "drivers" right out if the gate, and were used to test various things. One apparently had the engine in the "Kadett" position (centred over the front suspension) while the other had it positioned 14" back, behind the suspension cross member. The accountants favoured the Kadett position. Test driving showed that the rear-ward position handled much better, and the engineers convinced Opel and GM senior management to set the engine back. I don't know what happened to the double wiper Experimental GT, but the single-wiper version I drove apparently once had the CIH cross-flow head engine in it. It now has a twin-SU 1.1SR engine.

The surviving GT Experimental is still a driver. Licensed for the road, and gets driven. As do almost ALL the cars (non-show) in the Opel Classic Museum.

Much of what gets written on the Internet, and especially on Facebook, is based on "I heard...", "I understand...", " someone told me..." and " I read...". Sometimes true, more often as not confabulation (worth looking that up). My goal in life is to provide clarity, with proper sources, whenever possible. The world has enough confusing actual facts without adding made-up ones 😉

 

[RallyBob]

I don't know what happened to the double wiper Experimental GT, but the single-wiper version I drove apparently once had the CIH cross-flow head engine in it. It now has a twin-SU 1.1SR engine.

And just to further muddle things up, that crossflow engine that was in the prototype GT is NOT the same as the later 1970’s Opel Motorsports crossflow engine used in the Conrero GT’s and the D.O.T. rally and race cars.

The GT used a one-off (well, as I recall it was more like 12 heads that were cast) crossflow aluminum SOHC head for the 1.9 block, and that head was unique in that the port locations were reversed from the later factory motorsports heads.

I do have pics in a book somewhere.

 

[RallyBob]

Found one pic anyway. Note the carburetors are on the left hand side of the engine.

 

[kwilford]

And just to further muddle things up, that crossflow engine that was in the prototype GT is NOT the same as the later 1970’s Opel Motorsports crossflow engine used in the Conrero GT’s and the D.O.T. rally and race cars.

The GT used a one-off (well, as I recall it was more like 12 heads that were cast) crossflow aluminum SOHC head for the 1.9 block, and that head was unique in that the port locations were reversed from the later factory motorsports heads.

Jens Cooper (the Main Mechanic although more the Boss) at the Opel Classic Museum in Russelsheim told me that the cross-flow head shown in the GT Experimental was developed for the Rekord rally program, and since a number of parts in the GT Exp were Rekord-sourced (the differential/rear suspension and some miscellaneous bits IIRC) it made sense to also show the cross-flow engine off.