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Discussion Starter #1
I wanted some opinions on the merits of a stock FI 2.2 liter vs a warmed up 1.9 bored to a 2.0 with a performance head, higher compression, header, hot street cam and 38 DGAS. I know the 2.2 is known for it's torque due to the longer stroke, but would that be enough to make up for the goodies on the 2.0?
Thanks,
James
 

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A stock 2.2 litre is 115 ps (about 113 hp). Depending on your compression ratio choice, cam choice, and the degree of head work on your 2.0, you should have anywhere from 110-140 hp from that engine combination. The 2.2 does have better torque because of the longer stroke, and the crank is a little over 2 lbs lighter than the 1.9's, so it accelerates well from low rpms.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Then should I just look for a 2.2 crank to put in my 2.0 during the rebuild? Are they available? Are the rods different also?
James c
 

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Yes, you can put a 2.2 crank into a 1.9 block and bore it out to 95 mm to make a full 2.2 litres. Bearings all interchange, but the front crank pulley bolt is a larger diameter. The rods are the same length between the 1.5/1.6/1.7/1.9/2.0/2.2 litre engines, however the later 1.9's, all the 2.0's and all the 2.2's use cast steel rods, unlike the earlier forged steel rods, which are both lighter and stronger. The pin height on the piston of the 2.2 is naturally different to compensate for the change in stroke, so you will either need to get a set of 2.2 pistons (they're expensive and they're crap...the skirts collapse), or have a set custom made by an aftermarket piston manufacturer. Believe it or not, the aftermarket forged pistons will be about 50% cheaper than OEM Opel 2.2 pistons.
So, based on these statements, if you want to built a "US" 2.2 litre, I suggest the following:

*1.9 block bored to 3.75" (95.25 mm) - easy to get rings for
*early 1.9 forged steel rods (pre-1974)
*2.2 litre crank
*custom forged pistons

Compression with flat-tops will be near 10:1 because of the longer stroke and increased displacement.

Bob
 

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James,

That does sound like a great mod for the short block. I would like to keep in touch with u if u plan on going that route? I too, need to rebuild my bottom half. Might be able to get a purchase discount if we group it together??

The only difference with my total rebuild is that I am planning on utilizing a roller cam.

I wonder what kind of RPM's that bottom half could handle and what the redline would be?

later
Kel
 

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The shortblock of a 2.2 can handle about 8500 rpms with no problems assuming you switch to forged pistons and to prepped/forged early rods with ARP rod bolts, or custom billet rods. If everything is kept reasonably light, and the rings are kept thin (at least 1.5 mm, preferably 1.2 mm or even .043"), then 9500 rpms is no problem either. I found that the 1.5 mm rings would flutter as you passed 9000 rpms, and would open up the top groove in the piston over time, plus it started to flake off the moly coating.

BUT, in order for the valvetrain to handle rpms above 8000 reliably, then a few factors must be considered. You MUST use a 4-bearing head, because a three-bearing head has too little cam support, and the cam will flex and destroy the valvetrain on cylinder three eventually. Roller rocker arms are essential for reliability above 8000 rpms, and a stud girdle I consider essential as well. Roller lifters are not essential, but the strength and weight of the valvetrain must be considered. Lighter weight components that are high quality will require less spring tension to achieve the higher rpms, and will not break at those critical rpms. As far as ultimate redline, that is determined by the strength of the components, the airflow of the head (it must be very high), the camshaft profile (a 9500 rpm cam is not really streetable), and the induction and exhaust systems. Cooling system must be updated too, and underdrive pulleys are the only thing that'll keep the water pump working at those rpms, they cavitate and you overheat BADLY. That, plus the pump bearings will wear out very rapidly.

For example, a 9500 rpm circle track engine I built had lightweight ($$$$) valvetrain, aggressive cam (70 degrees more duration than stock @ .050"), roller rockers, stud girdle, 640 cfm Holley 2 bbl, custom intake, custom 1.75" primary header, 3" exhaust system, and $500 worth of ignition to handle the rpms and cylinder pressures. The engine was tractible from 2200 up, but really started to pull at 4700, and was strongest from 5300-9200 rpms. It made 192 hp @ 8600 rpms. I don't know how fast it truly was in a straight line since it was purpose built for a 1/4 mile oval track, but the one time I took it to a road course, it was faster than any car there on the straights by FAR. 1994 Corvette? Not even close. IMSA prepped BMW M3's? No problem there either. Third gear @ 9500 rpms was good for 153 mph.......
I'd guess that with the gearing it had it could go from 0-60 in about 4.5 to 5 seconds, and run mid-to-high 12's in the 1/4 mile. Even with a locked rear and 235/60 racing tires, it lit the tires up all the way through 1st gear from a roll-on.

BTW, if you build an engine to go above 8000 regularly, you must get rid of the stock Opel clutch, and use a billet flywheel. We used to run reinforced 8" clutchs, and the disc held up fine, but the pressure plates would fly apart from the centrifugal forces..one of the the 4 tabs that located the cover to the pressure surface would inevitably break and throw the whole thing out of balance. Happened three times, so we got a multi-disc racing clutch and it ended our problems. The vibration was so bad, it would crack the bellhousing of the tranny. A heavy duty Chevy S-10 clutch and billet flywheel would be suitable for a street engine at those rpms, we ran one for a while, but the inertia was too much for a racing engine.

Bob
 
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Where would I be without my fans.......

Bob
'Thinking about doing a worldwide tour'
 

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Thanks bob.

I was expecting it to be Aggresive. But that is a LOT stronger than I thought. My background is with 600-1000cc race bikes. Between 9500-14000rpms 110-175hp. To have this motor hit 8500 even at very short intervals, would be impressive. I have been on the ohio road course tracks, mid-ohio/nelsons, and drag strips with the bikes before.

When I get the opel up to speed/safe I will take it to nelsons. That will be the ultimate test of my labor. Might not be untill 2020, but hey at least I have something to look forward too ;-)

I already have the newer style 4 bearing head installed on a '70 bottom end.

I did take the stock motor over its limits and it was the bottom end that went. I think the rod bolt was not properly torqued. The bolt head is sitting on the bottom of oil pan right now.

I know I wont have the "best" possible air flow. Mostly will be restricted by the int/exh. The 38 weber seems like a very good fit(tuneable). The 700 ignition is...........necessary! cooling has not been an issue, then again it is still pretty much stock.

I am still waiting on the roller cam. I haven't even seen/heard of the profiles that Chris has or shipped. That is another thing I really need to figure out.

I am in aggreement with the tranny. I wont be using the stock tranny after the rebuild, other than for light tuning/breaking in period. unless I get the newer one in by then.

Again James need to keep updates on progress.

thanks bob...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
WOW! YOU GUYS ARE AMAZING!!
I'm just an old shade tree mechanic that wants more power.


I may be stymied on my latest boondoogle, however, as Gil just wrote and has sold his last 2.2 crank. Another option is that he does have used 2.2's. I just can't decide which way to go, (build a hot 2.0, built 2.2, stock 2.2 Euro, 2.4*, or engine swap). Of course, money isn't unlimited so sanity must apply.
James
 

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Hmmm, a 2.0/2.2 block (same thing) can be bored out another .080", so you'd have 2297 cc's out of a factory 2.2.

Bob
 
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