Opel GT Forum banner

1 - 20 of 43 Posts

·
Detroit,where my home was
Joined
·
2,896 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Rally Bob had this comment about the 2.2 intake manifold:
I have made some previous comments about the inefficiencies of the 2.2 FI intake manifold. The intake runners are much smaller than those of a 1.9 or 2.0 FI intake manifold. This helps to explain why a 2.2 litre engine is only rated at 5 hp more than the 2.0 litre engine, even though the 2.2 head's intake port flows much more than the 2.0's.
And this:
This is a closeup of the intake runner. Notice the mark left from the gasket, showing how much smaller the intake manifold runner is than the stock intake port.

my questions are:
where can I find the previous comments?
what would happen if I enlarged the intake runners to the size of the 1.9 or 2.0 engine?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,225 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,225 Posts
2 Fast 4 U said:
what would happen if I enlarged the intake runners to the size of the 1.9 or 2.0 engine?
Oops, sorry I missed this part. The runners of the 2.2 manifold are too small, there is not enough material in place to make them large enough. In fact, I tested a 2.2 intake on my flowbench, bolted to a ported 2.2 head with 1.88" inlet valves. The bare head flowed 136 cfm. With the standard 2.2 intake the airflow was restricted to 99 cfm. After having the intake manifold Extrude-honed (cost was $380), it now flowed 100.5 cfm. So for $380 we have 1.5 cfm! Very restrictive intake!

Bob
 

·
Detroit,where my home was
Joined
·
2,896 Posts
Sorry Bob, but this is the thread that I used as comments in blue for this thread, or did you make the previous comments in an other thread?
What do you mean by "Extrude-honed"?
What happens if the runners are enlarged does it give more HP or torque or both?
Could I use a 2.4 FI intake manifold instead?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,225 Posts
2 Fast 4 U said:
Sorry Bob, but this is the thread that I used as comments in blue for this thread, or did you make the previous comments in an other thread?
What do you mean by "Extrude-honed"?
What happens if the runners are enlarged does it give more HP or torque or both?
Could I use a 2.4 FI intake manifold insted?
Ahhh, I see now. Well, I can't recall specific threads, but in years past I've commented that the 2.2 inlet manifold is a piece of s**t basically! It just doesn't allow for good hp from the 2.2 head. Yes, a 2.4 manifold would be much nicer for flow, but unfortunately it does not fit under the hood of most old Opels, it is much taller than normal. So it seems the 3.0 manifold (modified of course) is very popular in Europe to fit to the 2.2 and 2.4 head for improved airflow, and therefore more torque and hp.

Here is the Extrude-hone company information. http://gethoned.com/process.html
On some engines it does make a big improvement, but I guess the 2.2 inlet was not one of those items!

Cheers,
Bob
 

·
Detroit,where my home was
Joined
·
2,896 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
What happens to the torque and hp from the 2.2 if I would adapt a 1.9 S carb intake manifold to fit the 2.2 FI head and use the 1.9 S carb instead of the FI
 

·
Opeler
Joined
·
49 Posts
2fastforU - A couple of months ago I changed my low compression 1.9 with a rebuilt 2.2. I didn't want to complicate things too much so I made the spacer for the carb, water thermostat adapter and mildly modified the intake so it would fit the 2.2 head. I have a stock(and well tuned) Solex and stock exhaust system. I have tons of torque, but the engine doesn't repond as fast as I know it could. My next step is too build a custom exhaust. I already have a exhaust manifold from a Record..not sure if its from a 2.0 or 2.2..but it looks like it should fit.
 

·
Detroit,where my home was
Joined
·
2,896 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
What do you mean by: "engine doesn't repond as fast as I know it could"
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,153 Posts
2 Fast 4 U said:
What do you mean by: "engine doesn't repond as fast as I know it could"
Doesn't rev like you had hoped?

If I was guessing, I would say restricted air flow. The exhaust could stand to be a little larger and less restrictive and the carburation could definitely be improved. I would probably replace the carb first and then work on the exhaust but IMHO they both need improvement.

Wish I had a 2.2, heck I would be happy to have a running 2.0. :)

Harold
 

·
Opeler
Joined
·
49 Posts
oops....meant "doesn't RESPOND". My Solex with electric choke works very well. It was rebuilt in Europe at a specialty shop last year. Is the Weber that much of a noticable improvement? How is the gas mileage with the Weber? In Europe the gas is $1.20 per liter! So gas mileage is definitely a major factor.
 

·
boomerang opeler
Joined
·
5,621 Posts
rstrel said:
In Europe the gas is $1.20 per liter! So gas mileage is definitely a major factor.
no kidding we pay $1.70 a litre in my area and more in some parts of britain
 

·
Non Civilian
Joined
·
2,084 Posts
rstrel said:
Is the Weber that much of a noticable improvement? How is the gas mileage with the Weber?
around town and just normal cruzing it will be the same. The Weber and Solex both have 32 mm primaries. But the Weber has a 36 mm secondary unlike the Solex's 32 mm. So when you need to pass or accelerate out of some emergancy situation, oh yes there will be a difference. You will also get to enjoy the sound of the Opel/Weber growl when you punch it.:banana:
 

·
boomerang opeler
Joined
·
5,621 Posts
bob have you ever looked into making an inlet manifold from scratch for the 2.2/2.4
heads with shorty runners so it would fit a gt /manta/etc as a 1 size item ?
even in steel i think it would be a big big shout from the guys if you did
what are we looking at , a length of 3" bore thin wall tube to give a 2.4 litre vol, a flange to mount the throttle plate , 4 bits of 135 deg pre-bent tube to match the inlet holes when formed to oblong 4 weld in pipes fro the injectors and 3 flange plates weld up ,polish and powder coat in your oven :D
i can see the queue at the door now
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,225 Posts
baz said:
bob have you ever looked into making an inlet manifold from scratch for the 2.2/4
heads with shorty runners so it would fit a gt /manta/etc as a 1 size item ?
You mean like this?
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=46909&postcount=8
I built one for Stephen (Oldopelguy) earlier this year. Not too difficult, but I wouldn't want to make a living doing it.

Bob
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,225 Posts
baz said:
did it flow well ?
Never tested it, it was a last-minute rush to complete it. But, it was essentially a straight shot to the valves, I angled the runners upwards at the same angle as the inlet ports. You could see the spark plugs through the inlets from the plenum area!
 

·
Detroit,where my home was
Joined
·
2,896 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
2 Fast 4 U said:
What happens to the torque and hp from the 2.2 if I would adapt a 1.9 S carb intake manifold to fit the 2.2 FI head and use the 1.9 S carb instead of the FI system
RallyBob what's your opinion on this??
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
13,225 Posts
2 Fast 4 U said:
RallyBob what's your opinion on this??
You'll still have more torque than a 1.9 or 2.0, but barely more hp. The 1.9 inlet and carburetor are barely sufficient for a 1.9, on a 2.2 it will choke it down horribly. A 1.9 engine (Euro-spec) with EFI is 105 ps. A 2.0 EFI has 110 ps, while a 2.2 EFI has 115 ps. Only 10 hp separates the 1.9 from the 2.2, the difference is primarily torque, since the 2.2 has much better inlet ports but a bad inlet manifold design, it cannot take advantage of the better inlet ports. Putting the inlet and carburetor from a 1.9s (90 ps) will hurt the power potential of the 2.2 a lot. At the very least, I would use a 38 DGAS (330 cfm) and a ported inlet manifold with a 2.2 head. A 500 cfm Holley works better still, but there needs to be an adapter fitted to the inlet for this, plus more porting would need to be done.

Bob
 
1 - 20 of 43 Posts
Top