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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey everyone,

I purchased a used complete 2.2 motor several years ago from OGTS that is paired to an automatic transmission. Since having the motor, I have went from a Weber 32/36 to a Weber 38 with the original 1.9 intake and exhaust manifolds. Just a few weeks ago work was completed on installing dual Weber DCOE 45's along with a new OGTS header and a 1975 distributor.

Last summer I was experiencing some issues with the car. I was having a hard time starting it from time to time. So I changed the timing to help with starting it, then had issues with it pinging while driving. I had tried to rebuild and tune the Weber 38 in hopes of fixing the issues, however the issues persisted. I was also noticing a lack of power over the past couple of summers, but I wasn't sure if I was just getting accustomed (or bored) to how it drove or if I was having some sort of carb issue.

So after getting the DCOE 45s installed, I knew that I wanted to have a professional fine tune and balance the carbs. So I took it to a shop that specializes in vintage cars, complete rebuilds and motor tuning. The shop was having difficulty dialing the carbs in as well, so the lead mechanic decided to check the motor out to ensure it was running properly so he could then get the carbs straightened out. Well, as you can guess by the title of this thread...he found some stuff and it is not good. He first noticed that a lifter seemed to be stuck or collapsed, so he took the valve cover off. He found that several of the lifters were so tight that had a hard time loosening them up. Once he got them straightened out, the lifter on #2 was the problem child. In fact, it was so bad that he found gas inside the airbox on the #2 airhorn location! When you hit the throttle, instead of sucking in air, its a mix between sucking it in and blowing it out. So he moved on to a compression check. Two of the cylinders registered compression around 95-100. Yikes. Somehow the car still runs and drives, it just isn't very powerful, obviously.

So, looks like I'll have a motor rebuild to occupy my time this fall & winter. I've never taken on this sort of task, so I don't know what to expect or what I'm going to need. I know that I won't know what I'll need until the motor comes out of the car and is opened up. I'd like to only have to rebuild this motor once, so I want to do it right. If there are any modifications that I can make during the build that would increase performance, mainly torque since it's just a street machine, I would be interested in learning about those.

I know this build isn't an immediate one, but I figured that I could start it now and begin the planning it out and then acquiring the necessary parts.

Thanks for any help or insight that is provided in this thread.

Eric

PS> Gordo, it looks like dual DCOE carbs are a good way to diagnose an engine problem!!

PSS> And yes, I've been following First Opel 1981's 2.2 Engine Documentation thread as well. I just want to leave his thread and my thread separate.
 

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Rebuilding older engines like these doesn't take too much mechanical skills, if you're patient and work methodically and with great care it's unlikely you'll do much harm even if you end up redoing some of your work along the way

It'll be interesting to follow your progress on this rebuild
 

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Über Genius
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First order of business will be to tear it all apart.

Until you do that you won't have an idea of where you are going. You won't know if you need a crank grind (recommended either way) or what size pistons to get (if you aren't already bored out too far for stockers).

If you only want to do this once, figure $600 for the short block (on the very cheap side) to $1,500 on the possible side.

Make sure to get the block deck checked and the head as well. Magnaflux the head to make sure it's good.

The head is going to run you at least $250 plus parts.

New cam - $250
Reground cam - @$100
New valves - $140
Cam bearings - ??
Lifters - $100+

You get the idea.

I'm getting close to assembling mine soon so keep my thread in mind. I hope to add a lot of documentation to the assembly as well as some pictures.
 
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Opel Key Master
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It sounds like it is more the head than anything, if the compression was low and the lifters were messed up, it would show low numbers, so it may just be a head issue...but I will say this, I think the engine timing marks on yours are off. I just recall something about the flywheel mark being off from where the other marks were. So it might be a good idea to just pull the engine. I had some custom 2.2 pistons made once by Diamond Piston in a .030 over. They were around $600 though. I may still have the specs for reordering if you have to go that route.
 

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At one point these old motors need to be torn down for inspections and possibly a full rebuild.Like Keith said, thing may not be all that bad.
Any competant engine shop should be able to take it apart, clean, inspect and replace needed parts without much drama.
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Just as an FYI, Gil told me that you could send your head to his machinists that do OGTS's rebuilds. That way you are assured that experienced Opel engine rebuilders have checked all the Opel specific things AND they have access to any parts you need. The plus is that you can send the head or block via UPS. Each are just under their maximum weight threshold. It sounds like you're fairly confident that the block stuff is okay, but that you may have head issues that need checking.
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
It sounds like it is more the head than anything, if the compression was low and the lifters were messed up, it would show low numbers, so it may just be a head issue...but I will say this, I think the engine timing marks on yours are off. I just recall something about the flywheel mark being off from where the other marks were. So it might be a good idea to just pull the engine. I had some custom 2.2 pistons made once by Diamond Piston in a .030 over. They were around $600 though. I may still have the specs for reordering if you have to go that route.
Keith-

If you have the specs for the pistons I would love to see them. I plan to pull the whole motor and transmission during this process to make sure everything is how it should be.

Thanks!
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #8
What modifications from stock can be made during a rebuild to increase torque?

Specific changes to/in the head?

Specific changes to/in the block?

Thanks for any info

Eric
 

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Super Moderator
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2.2 heads are funny. If you blend the bowls with stock valves, the flow gets worse. If you port the heck out if it with stock valves, it improves a little bit. If you put in bigger valves and port it right...wow!

But even still they like very high valve lift. In fact they need so much valve lift to REALLY perform I still prefer well done 1.9 head for most street applications.

But for all out racing a fully modded 2.2 head can't be beat.
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #13
2.2 heads are funny. If you blend the bowls with stock valves, the flow gets worse. If you port the heck out if it with stock valves, it improves a little bit. If you put in bigger valves and port it right...wow!

But even still they like very high valve lift. In fact they need so much valve lift to REALLY perform I still prefer well done 1.9 head for most street applications.

But for all out racing a fully modded 2.2 head can't be beat.
So what is the "porting it right" recipe?? What size valves?

With the valve lift, would a torquer cam supply enough lift?
 

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So what is the "porting it right" recipe?? What size valves?
Not an easily defined process! You really don't need this for what you are trying to accomplish. Aside from that you can get carried away spending money.

With the valve lift, would a torquer cam supply enough lift?
Not even close. A torquer cam has about 1/8" too little lift.
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #15
Not an easily defined process! You really don't need this for what you are trying to accomplish. Aside from that you can get carried away spending money.



Not even close. A torquer cam has about 1/8" too little lift.
So for what I am trying to accomplish, what do I need to do??

Specifics help out a ton since I have never gone through this before.

Thanks Bob,

Eric
 

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Super Moderator
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So for what I am trying to accomplish, what do I need to do??

Specifics help out a ton since I have never gone through this before.

Thanks Bob,

Eric
You know what? Forget I said anything about porting!

Have the head freshened up stock. Use the torquer cam. Have .020" milled off the head.

If the OEM pistons are junk (most likely are), have some custom ones made. OEM pistons are $600, might as well get custom ones made! If you want torque, punch it out .040" (96 mm) for 2244 cc's, or go up to 97 mm bore for 2291 cc's (2.3 liter).

If you feel like it, replace the stock 2.2 cast rods with early 1.9 forged rods. Now the shortblock is pretty bulletproof to 8000 rpms if you feel like it.

Use a Sprint exhaust manifold or a small tube header from OGTS, and a 2.25" exhaust.

Call it a day...
 
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The 2.2 is a fairly torqey engine out of the box so as long as you don't go OTT with valves and the cam you should be good to go. Many people feel it's a better compromise for a "sporty" car such as the GT than the 2.4 as it will still rev relatively freely

I've never driven a 2.2 in a light car but I've driven a couple of Rekord 2.2i's and even in a comparatively heavy car as that the engine never felt gutless at lower revs. I'm sure some of that was down the injection doing it's thing but a decently sorted carb will probably be almost as good
 

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The 2.2 is a fairly torqey engine out of the box ... I'm sure some of that was down the injection doing it's thing but a decently sorted carb will probably be almost as good
Oh yeah
Give me a three inch stroker with ninety seven milly bores.
Haul ace with either DSD's or twin throttle body injection.:cool:
 
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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #19
valves?

You know what? Forget I said anything about porting!

Have the head freshened up stock. Use the torquer cam. Have .020" milled off the head.

If the OEM pistons are junk (most likely are), have some custom ones made. OEM pistons are $600, might as well get custom ones made! If you want torque, punch it out .040" (96 mm) for 2244 cc's, or go up to 97 mm bore for 2291 cc's (2.3 liter).

If you feel like it, replace the stock 2.2 cast rods with early 1.9 forged rods. Now the shortblock is pretty bulletproof to 8000 rpms if you feel like it.

Use a Sprint exhaust manifold or a small tube header from OGTS, and a 2.25" exhaust.

Call it a day...
Based on this recipe that Bob has provided (and I'm trusting this recipe even though I'm not sure what it would produce):

What would putting larger valves in the head accomplish?

Saw this set of valves 2.2L Set of Valves - Valve Train - 2.2 Liter - Engine - Opel GT - Store | Opel GT Source on OGTS but not sure what it would accomplish, if anything of significance.


I've read the thread and seen the video of PJ's car build, and I want to make sure that I am as happy with mine as he is his...and being thorough will hopefully make sure that happens. I already have the OGTS header, modified exhaust and dual 45 DCOE carbs...the engine is the missing link. The engine will get a total overhaul as I want this to be the last time I drop the motor in a LONG LONG time...so I'm just doing my homework to assure that I put together a motor that I will live with forever (maybe). Because of all that, I will probably have more questions than most people doing a rebuild to make sure I have a great plan going in on this.

Eric
 

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Bikini Inspector
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Eric,

Ill take a stab at it. The 2.4 is called a stroker because the piston/crankshaft/rods have a longer stroke. piston goes deeper in the hole.

wouldnt this need different rods, different crank and new pistons? And I will say if you are looking for a lot more oomph compared to your current setup, this is the way to go. it will not just be mere difference.
 
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