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Silly question....you mentioned that for a cam like the one you told me about that I would need stronger valve springs...how do I know how strong they need to be? and where can I get those at?
Two easy options really.

Norris sells double springs and aluminum retainers for Opel heads. You might need to shim them differently for the 2.2 head, but they should work.

Alternatively I used to sell a single "drop in" spring for 2.2 and 2.4 heads with stock valves and retainers. This was in my C & R days. The OEM 2.2 springs will coil-bind at .475" lift, and had around 180 lbs of open pressure. The springs I sold would coil bind at .510" lift and had around 210 lbs of open pressure. They were made by Pioneer spring. I can look them up in my old spec book. They were very inexpensive.
 
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Two easy options really.

Norris sells double springs and aluminum retainers for Opel heads. You might need to shim them differently for the 2.2 head, but they should work.

Alternatively I used to sell a single "drop in" spring for 2.2 and 2.4 heads with stock valves and retainers. This was in my C & R days. The OEM 2.2 springs will coil-bind at .475" lift, and had around 180 lbs of open pressure. The springs I sold would coil bind at .510" lift and had around 210 lbs of open pressure. They were made by Pioneer spring. I can look them up in my old spec book. They were very inexpensive.
Inexpensive is good.
I'd be interested in these as well.
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #83
Two easy options really.

Norris sells double springs and aluminum retainers for Opel heads. You might need to shim them differently for the 2.2 head, but they should work.

Alternatively I used to sell a single "drop in" spring for 2.2 and 2.4 heads with stock valves and retainers. This was in my C & R days. The OEM 2.2 springs will coil-bind at .475" lift, and had around 180 lbs of open pressure. The springs I sold would coil bind at .510" lift and had around 210 lbs of open pressure. They were made by Pioneer spring. I can look them up in my old spec book. They were very inexpensive.
Man Bob, you are coming through in spades! Finding those springs would be fantastic. If OEM 2.2 springs don't bind until .475 lift, wouldn't I be safe if lift was .450-.460? I'd rather have the insurance though.

I wasn't able to speak with anyone at Isky today as the guy that works with custom cams isn't in until later in the day. Gonna try giving them a call again tomorrow. Norris said they'd have an answer for me in a couple of days. Not sure why, but that's what Chuck said.

Eric
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #84
Valves & springs

So I was doing my nightly reading & hunting for parts for this motor rebuild. I found 2 things that got my attention:

I know the stock 2.2 valves are 45/40, but while browsing on their website they have 46/41 valves. Big valves are a good thing, right? Would these compliment this engine build?

They also have reinforced valve springs rated at 120 kp...if I've looked it up right, isn't that rated to 264lbs?

Hopefully smarter people engine people can chime in here.

Eric
 

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No luck finding my spec book with the valve spring part numbers. I looked at home and at my shop. No idea what I did with it.

I started it in 1991 and it has all my parts crossover numbers, my engine specs and other miscellaneous Opel nuances. Ugh.
 

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I may not have found my spec book, but I seemed to remember talking about this on the forum maybe 10 years ago. Did a Google custom search here and found it!

Pioneer RV-925-4.

4 springs to a box, so you'd need two boxes.
 

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I know the stock 2.2 valves are 45/40, but while browsing on their website they have 46/41 valves. Big valves are a good thing, right? Would these compliment this engine build?

They also have reinforced valve springs rated at 120 kp...if I've looked it up right, isn't that rated to 264lbs?
You didn't say who "they" are, but assuming it's a European website, that's a common size upgrade. However to fully realize any gains, the head needs to be ported with larger valves.

As far as the springs, you don't need that stiff a spring unless you've got a pretty nasty cam in there an intend to rev it hard. Which again wouldn't work well with the automatic.
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #88
You didn't say who "they" are, but assuming it's a European website, that's a common size upgrade. However to fully realize any gains, the head needs to be ported with larger valves.

As far as the springs, you don't need that stiff a spring unless you've got a pretty nasty cam in there an intend to rev it hard. Which again wouldn't work well with the automatic.
Well, it was late last night and I guess I missed putting that info in my post. I was on Risse Motorsports' website. They have an EXTENSIVE supply of Opel CIH stuff. That's where I found the larger valves and the springs.

Thanks for the heads up on the spring info. I like the springs that you said were stronger, but direct 'drop-ins' for the 2.2. I'll be looking those up tonight

Eric
 

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Eric don't go crazy with the spring pressure...it'll be just wasted power.
I believe 110# closed and around 210# open will work just fine with your cam choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #90
Eric don't go crazy with the spring pressure...it'll be just wasted power.
I believe 110# closed and around 210# open will work just fine with your cam choice.
Thanks for the advice Dan. I was able to locate the springs that Bob referenced. Actually ended up seeing several mentions of those same springs here on this site when I searched for them. I'm hoping that the Pioneer ones will work well.

Eric
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #92
cam

I agree that you can't go too crazy on the cam unless you go with a high stall torque converter. However, one of the nice parts about a larger displacement engine is that it "sees" the camshaft as smaller compared to a 1.9 engine. In other words, the bigger the engine, the more cam you can get away with, without hampering torque and drivability. This is where a custom profile comes in handy. You can add lift, go easy on duration, add more exhaust flow, and widen the lobe separation angle for an auto tranny. I will idle smoother in other words.

Otto Bartsch has a cam I sold him years ago. He put a 2.2 crank in a 1.9 block with .030" over pistons and a SSD Weber. The cam was an old Cam Techniques cam I had (sadly they are out of business now), it was an H310....465" lift with 224 duration @ .050".
Works like a charm.

If you went with .450" to .475" lift, maybe 216-220 intake duration and 224-228 exhaust duration, and 112 lobe separation, I think you'd be very happy with the performance with an auto trans.
So, I made some calls on cams.

Called Norris and they said they needed a couple of days to figure it out and wanted me to them call back. So far, haven't been able to get a hold of them after several calls with nobody answering.

Called Isky Cams and spoke to Ron. I gave him the specs that Bob mentioned in the quote post and while on the phone with him he came up with this cam that they could make from a blank without having to make something completely from scratch:

Intake duration of 222 with .455 lift
Exhaust duration of 228 with .448 lift
Lobe separation of 112

Thoughts on that one? Seems pretty damn close to the one Bob spec'd out and suggested.

Eric
 

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Intake duration of 222 with .455 lift
Exhaust duration of 228 with .448 lift
Lobe separation of 112

Thoughts on that one? Seems pretty damn close to the one Bob spec'd out and suggested.

Eric
That'll do the trick...:yup:
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #94
That'll do the trick...:yup:
That's what I like to hear Bob!! :arms:

Looks like I'll be giving Isky an order for a cam soon. Ron said they could have it done by Tuesday and to me by the end of next week if I order it in the next day or two. Not that I'm in that sort of a rush, but its nice to have that kind of turn-around time. Ron said they could also put in degrees of advance in and I could pick the centerline?? Not sure what to do with that??

I ordered the Pioneer RV-925-4 springs earlier today also.

Next up will be the pistons from Wiseco. Previously spoke to them about 2.2 pistons with a compression ratio of 10.5:1. Will those play nice with the rest of this planned build?

Then the rods, valves, lifters, etc.

Eric
 

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... Ron said they could also put in degrees of advance in and I could pick the centerline?? Not sure what to do with that??

Eric
Sometimes cam grinder's just put the advance on the cam card....you'll need to figure out the final timing.

Hope that helps
Dan
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #97
Did Isky say if they had blanks or needed one?

Norris is a one man show or skeleton crew, the guys son charles junior haha old school.
Isky didn't need a blank or anything out of me. I told Ron (at Isky) what I was looking for and he started going through what they had in their book/machine for an Opel cam. If I would have wanted something more extreme (and totally custom), he said it would have cost me 225 before the cam and the grinding.

The guy I spoke with at Norris the the other day didn't impress me too much. Honestly, not surprised I haven't been able to get a hold of them. And if I had been able to reach them, I wasn't liking my odds of them having the info worked up or ready yet.

I'm all about customer service to go along with quality of parts.

Eric
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #98
Sometimes cam grinder's just put the advance on the cam card....you'll need to figure out the final timing.

Hope that helps
Dan
Dan-

But if Ron at Isky is asking me what timing I want because they can put in whatever I want...I'm not sure what to tell the guy. He was very polite, patient and helpful...so I don't feel that I'd have a problem asking him for his advice and answers to my questions. Because I definitely have questions and would love to learn as much as I can but keeping it at the level I need to know for this build. I don't want to get lost in info that is useless or unnecessary to me and my current situation.

Eric
 

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Dan-

But if Ron at Isky is asking me what timing I want because they can put in whatever I want...I'm not sure what to tell the guy. He was very polite, patient and helpful...so I don't feel that I'd have a problem asking him for his advice and answers to my questions. Because I definitely have questions and would love to learn as much as I can but keeping it at the level I need to know for this build. I don't want to get lost in info that is useless or unnecessary to me and my current situation.

Eric
In a effort to keep it in plain language.

If the head and block is virgin(not heavy decked) the cam should open the intake valve
@-1 degree/361 or to put it another way 472 degrees using the center line method.
This is being straight up.

Street engines sort of enjoys more advance..more power down low.
I would not get carried away say 2-4 more cam timing.
With two degrees more timing that will put you at 1BTDC/359...470 intake center line.
 
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