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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #101
update

The motor came out of the GT today. I took it over to the shop building the engine and it is headed to the machine shop early next week. Just from giving it an eyeball over...2 of the springs seemed to be collapsed and a few of the valves looked terrible.

Really excited to see the progress on this build and get back behind the wheel of a strong running GT in the next month or so.

More updates will follow as information becomes available.

Eric
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #102
help

Is there anyway to ID the year of my 2.2? I'm pretty sure that the 2.2 was only in use for 84-86, right? When did hardened seats go in the motors?? Would there be a difference between the 84, 85 & 86 year? The machine shop wanted to be sure of the year of the motor, and I don't know how to (or if I can) answer that.

The bore measurement they gave me was a little off from the 95mm bore that I thought the motor would have in stock form. They measured 3.765, which if I'm doing the math right puts the bore at 95.631...so would that mean that this motor has been bored out before??

What's the safest overbore that this block can take for street driving?

Any help is always appreciated,

Eric
 

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I see this as a moot point.
Yes, you'll need hardened valve seats on the exhaust.....unless your planning on running
race fuel.
 

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Opel Key Master
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Any markings on the Pistons? This would indicate an over bore. The engine should have hardened seats, I want to say 1973 and later used hardened seats. RB would know the max overbore you could go. One option that would be okay is to run the 2.2 crank with a 1.9 block and stock 2.2 Pistons...if you find the block is not serviceable. You would still have a 2.2, but couldn't build it again down the road.
 

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Yea now the marking on the pistons are worthless.
Most people FIT the pistons to the block.My two cents .
Bore block slightly undersized then power hone to the final fitment.
Depending on piston composition the clearance may be .004-.008.
 

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Is there anyway to ID the year of my 2.2? I'm pretty sure that the 2.2 was only in use for 84-86, right? When did hardened seats go in the motors?? Would there be a difference between the 84, 85 & 86 year? The machine shop wanted to be sure of the year of the motor, and I don't know how to (or if I can) answer that.

The bore measurement they gave me was a little off from the 95mm bore that I thought the motor would have in stock form. They measured 3.765, which if I'm doing the math right puts the bore at 95.631...so would that mean that this motor has been bored out before??

What's the safest overbore that this block can take for street driving?

Any help is always appreciated,

Eric
The year of the block is below the starter (last two digits), while the year of the head is under the valve cover, roughly in line with spark plus #2 just like the 1.9 heads. I believe only the '84 heads were set up for leaded fuel. The machinist should know the minute he tries to cut the seats. Hardened seats end up shiny and of course harder to machine.

I've punched the 2.2's out two millimeters (.080") with no issues. 2297 cc's (2.3 liter) is the result.
 

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Opel Key Master
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Yea now the marking on the pistons are worthless.
Most people FIT the pistons to the block.My two cents .
Bore block slightly undersized then power hone to the final fitment.
Depending on piston composition the clearance may be .004-.008.
The markings on the Pistons will clue in quickly that the block was machined prior, so worthless information...I disagree

Bore then honing is how the machine shops do it, the bored surface is not adequate for a ring surface, so the last thousandths are honed. Every piston will be different, so you must fit the Pistons to the block, in fact each piston to each cylinder it is used for. Now tell us something we don't know.
How about a graph showing compression change due to each thousandths of piston clearance....that would be fun.
 

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Opel Key Master
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Also if you feel (machine shop feels) that the block is too far gone, or you don't want to push the limits of the bore, you could have sleeves installed to bring it back to stock bore.
I actually prefer a sleeved surface due to the benefits of a better cylinder wall material, and they tend to run cooler. But it would add probably another $400-500 as you would need new pistons anyways...but it is an option.
I once had stock nos pistons and wanted a shop to sleeve a block, he told me it would be as cheap to order new pistons, I tried to explain that the pistons I had were $0 to me...against my better judgment, I let him do the work...I ended up having another shop fix it the way I wanted it
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #109
Any markings on the Pistons? This would indicate an over bore. The engine should have hardened seats, I want to say 1973 and later used hardened seats. RB would know the max overbore you could go. One option that would be okay is to run the 2.2 crank with a 1.9 block and stock 2.2 Pistons...if you find the block is not serviceable. You would still have a 2.2, but couldn't build it again down the road.
The year of the block is below the starter (last two digits), while the year of the head is under the valve cover, roughly in line with spark plus #2 just like the 1.9 heads. I believe only the '84 heads were set up for leaded fuel. The machinist should know the minute he tries to cut the seats. Hardened seats end up shiny and of course harder to machine.

I've punched the 2.2's out two millimeters (.080") with no issues. 2297 cc's (2.3 liter) is the result.
Thanks for the information guys, I appreciate it. My block looks good at this point, just looks like the cylinder walls are a bit worn out.

The journey continues.....
 

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Opeler
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latest update

Some progress has been made on my end. I got all the final necessary measurements from the machine shop so I could order my replacement parts. Here's what I've got coming for my motor build:

Pistons:
  • Wiseco flat top pistons (quoted C/R 9.5:1), 96mm (1mm overbore) complete with rings. I ordered them 2 weeks ago and they were quoting about 3 weeks lead time so I may have them late next week.

Then I ordered my other necessary parts:
  • Standard 2.2 Valves, with oversize stem
  • Main & Rod bearings .010 over
  • Cam bearings
  • Complete gasket set, including 2.0 head gasket (97mm bore)
  • Hydraulic lifters
  • Timing chain set, complete with tensioner, etc
  • Forged connecting rods

OGTS is currently out of stock of allen head intake/exhaust bolts....anybody have any or can anyone direct me as to where to find them?? Regular bolts are a pain in the ass with the dual carbs and header!

As stated earlier in this thread, I already have the custom Isky camshaft and valve springs. Once I get the pistons, they go to the machine shop so the boring & honing can be completed. All of the other parts go to the engine builder and I'm that much closer to getting this sucker in my GT. Starting to get real excited to see how this engine will perform.

Eric
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #112
The intake bolts are as rare as crack free dash.

round ones to boot? sounds like a Rb or PJ item to me
I guess I'm gonna cross my fingers now then!

If I knew what the thread size and length of the bolts are supposed to be maybe I could find them through Fastenal or somewhere? I'm willing to drop some $$ on them since the regular ones are a HUGE pain to deal with.

Eric
 

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Bikini Inspector
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I guess I'm gonna cross my fingers now then!

If I knew what the thread size and length of the bolts are supposed to be maybe I could find them through Fastenal or somewhere? I'm willing to drop some $$ on them since the regular ones are a HUGE pain to deal with.

Eric
heli coil is actually probably going to be easier than finding them
 

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I guess I'm gonna cross my fingers now then!

If I knew what the thread size and length of the bolts are supposed to be maybe I could find them through Fastenal or somewhere? I'm willing to drop some $$ on them since the regular ones are a HUGE pain to deal with.

Eric
They are Opel specific. 9 x 1.25 pitch, 30 mm long, with an integral washer. No fastener place will have them, trust me!

If you need them THAT bad when you're ready to button the engine up, I have a few of them with the Allen heads. I could possibly spare 4. The outermost 2 can be OEM 15 mm headed bolts.

I'm slowly converting all my heads to 3/8"-16 ARP stuff because it's readily available, the quality is better, and availability is MUCH better. Even OGTS is having trouble getting them lately.
 

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Some progress has been made on my end. I got all the final necessary measurements from the machine shop so I could order my replacement parts. Here's what I've got coming for my motor build:

Pistons:
Wiseco flat top pistons (quoted C/R 9.5:1), 96mm (1mm overbore) complete with rings. I ordered them 2 weeks ago and they were quoting about 3 weeks lead time so I may have them late next week.
You got my interest.
Ya the turn-around time for custom built pistons is around three weeks.
Are you using the stock length connecting rods?
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #118
They are Opel specific. 9 x 1.25 pitch, 30 mm long, with an integral washer. No fastener place will have them, trust me!

If you need them THAT bad when you're ready to button the engine up, I have a few of them with the Allen heads. I could possibly spare 4. The outermost 2 can be OEM 15 mm headed bolts.

I'm slowly converting all my heads to 3/8"-16 ARP stuff because it's readily available, the quality is better, and availability is MUCH better. Even OGTS is having trouble getting them lately.
Thanks fellas, appreciate the direction & help. PJ, I'm not sure that they will ship to the U.S. though. Also wonder what the shipping time would be here if they did.

Bob, I just may have to take you up in your offer to obtain some of those bolts from you if I can't find another source or go the re-threading route.

You got my interest.
Ya the turn-around time for custom built pistons is around three weeks.
Are you using the stock length connecting rods?
Dan, I am in fact using stock sizes for both rods and pistons (excluding overbore of course). Wiseco had all of the correct 2.2 measurements on file to make the pistons. Only changes made was for compression ratio and usage (street car) to lighten them up a tad. Found dealing with them to be more than pleasant and informative.

Eric
 

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Opeler
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Discussion Starter #119
update

It has been one L O N G winter and I'm finally about to ring spring in properly. The motor build has obviously taken much longer than anticipated, one due to my engine builder being extra meticulous and the other being my schedule. The motor was done in early February, but it took me a while to get some free time to get the motor back in the car due a large number of things, but now the motor is back in the car and it is set to fire up on Wednesday for the first time. The guy that built the motor has to be present for its initial firing and proper break-in and for him to warranty the motor.

Also, found the allen head bolts for the intake/exhaust manifolds...OGTS has them back in stock. I had to grind the washer part down a bit for them to work on my header & DCOE intakes.

Something really cool did happen along the way though, and I'm pretty sure you guys will get a huge kick out of this story. So, my car is an automatic and with all the engine changes and going to dual DCOE carbs, I wanted to make sure the transmission would compliment it as best as possible. My dad sells building materials for a living and went to a jobsite to walk the job and quote the materials. This job turned out to be at Coan Engineering, which just happens to specialize in torque converters and racing transmissions. My dad struck up conversation with the owner and mentioned my Opel to the guy. Here's the great part, the owner flipped out and couldn't believe that my dad was telling him about working on an Opel! Why you ask?! Well, it turns out that when Opel ceased being sold in the US the owner of Coan went out and bought all of the Opel automatic torque converters he could find. He said he loved that converter and that they started their ENTIRE business with the Opel torque converters. He than said that since they built the business on those converters that he'd love the chance to work on one again. He asked what the specs of the motor, cam and carb jetting were so he could custom build a converter just for my car. So, in addition to all of the motor work I've had done, now I'm going to have a fresh, custom torque converter. It's going to be like driving the car for the 1st time all over again, you know with the exception of it actually having power now!

More details to come...

Eric
 

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...

Something really cool did happen along the way though, and I'm pretty sure you guys will get a huge kick out of this story. So, my car is an automatic and with all the engine changes and going to dual DCOE carbs, I wanted to make sure the transmission would compliment it as best as possible. My dad sells building materials for a living and went to a jobsite to walk the job and quote the materials. This job turned out to be at Coan Engineering, which just happens to specialize in torque converters and racing transmissions. My dad struck up conversation with the owner and mentioned my Opel to the guy. Here's the great part, the owner flipped out and couldn't believe that my dad was telling him about working on an Opel! Why you ask?! Well, it turns out that when Opel ceased being sold in the US the owner of Coan went out and bought all of the Opel automatic torque converters he could find. He said he loved that converter and that they started their ENTIRE business with the Opel torque converters. He than said that since they built the business on those converters that he'd love the chance to work on one again. He asked what the specs of the motor, cam and carb jetting were so he could custom build a converter just for my car. So, in addition to all of the motor work I've had done, now I'm going to have a fresh, custom torque converter. It's going to be like driving the car for the 1st time all over again, you know with the exception of it actually having power now!

More details to come...

Eric
Yep the Opel TC where highly prized by the drag racers back in the day.
You could get a high stall 4500+ rpms with a small block chevy.
 
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