anyone got a twin groove pully for A/C

14258 Views 70 Replies 15 Participants Last post by tekenaar, Jan 17, 2008

tekenaar

Discussion Starter · Jun 29, 2005 (Edited)

BQS4 said:
Dave;
It seems I have run into a batch of Mantas. I have one parked in the driveway right now (74 Rallye, rust bucket, being stripped for parts) and another waiting for me out in west GA this weeked (another 74 Rallye, again a rust bucket, but, has great parts) and another 75 Manta in east GA I intend looking at this weekend (again, another rust bucket waiting to be stripped)

Still looking for twin pulley A/C crank pulley and right side (Manta/1900), aluminum A/C pump mount . . .

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oldopelguy

· #21 · Jul 4, 2005

fan too

tekenaar said:
Is the alternator/water pump V-belt driven from the rear pulley of dual crank pulley? Assume so . . . thanks.

One other issue of concern in the Kadett with AC was the fan. The 1.9 motor is so close to the rediator that you can't space it forward to clear the pulley like the Manta and GT, instead they cut away the rear 1/2" of the fan instead to clear the pully. Doing it and keeping it balanced is a real chore if you have to do it to one yourself. Do yourself a favor and start out with a 7-blade one, though, to keep as much fan as you can.

To top it all off, the condenser sits right up against the support brace in the front, so no room for a "normal-sized" electric fan on the front either.

tekenaar

Discussion Starter · #22 · Jul 7, 2005 (Edited)

Dimensional A/C compressor bracket drawing . . .

RallyBob said:
One of the ultimatums I had made to myself concerning the drive out to the OMC this year was I would only go if my wagon had A/C (my Canadian blood doesn't tolerate heat and especially humidity). That's a moot point now since I don't have the money to go and the wagon is nowhere near completed anyway. But, I was going to use the A/C I stripped from my Nissan Sentra which has a nice, efficient, lightweight compressor that will easily fit the turbo wagon. That said, I was going to have to make a mounting bracket for it anyway.

Otto, if you have a detailed drawing I could probably fab up an aluminum bracket in a couple of hours for you. Just a thought, and the practice wouldn't hurt me

Bob

Had to rethink the whole thing a bit, as I said, but if the offer is still good, here's a drawing of the driver side compressor bracket. Not drawn to scale (couldn't find a "grid" in Paint!), but all the dimensions listed are accurate. The 2.625" dimension between the back sides of the pivot arms is the most critical as pump arms will mount to it from the rear. Mocked pump up to run off front pulley on driver's side and will have to fab passenger side alternator bracket as well. Up for that one too?

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nobody

· #23 · Jul 7, 2005

You just got me to think about it. Paul has that Pulley in fort Smith now so alot closer anyway. I got an underdrive pulley this way and the dual went that way. Opelers are a good bunch.

Otto, I think the GT could use a bit of ignition help like a relay perhaps. Not that I had a plan on this or anything.

tekenaar

Discussion Starter · #24 · Jul 8, 2005

Bit of ignition . . . switch? . . . help

nobody said:
You just got me to think about it. Paul has that Pulley in fort Smith now so alot closer anyway. I got an underdrive pulley this way and the dual went that way. Opelers are a good bunch.

Otto, I think the GT could use a bit of ignition help like a relay perhaps. Not that I had a plan on this or anything.

I may be able to help you there, Dave . . . uh, you did mean ignition switch, right?

Send me your snail mail address.

nobody

· #25 · Jul 8, 2005

Um, pauls daughters car in Fort Smith could use a bit of ignition help like a relay, hum lo and behold he has a twin pulley with your name on it. I will plead the 5th on how that happened. Sounds like a trade to me, but what do I know.

RallyBob

· #26 · Jul 8, 2005

tekenaar said:
Had to rethink the whole thing a bit, as I said, but if the offer is still good, here's a drawing of the driver side compressor bracket. Not drawn to scale (couldn't find a "grid" in Paint!), but all the dimensions listed are accurate. The 2.675" dimension between the back sides of the pivot arms is the most critical as pump arms will mount to it from the rear. Mocked pump up to run off front pulley on driver's side and will have to fab passenger side alternator bracket as well. Up for that one too?

Looks simple enough, and I happen to have some 3/8" thick 6061 aluminum laying around too. Let me know what the second bracket will be, it's easier to make 'em both at the same time.

Bob

Sportwagon75

· #27 · Jul 8, 2005

Food for Thought

Otto - You might want to check out the following thread.
http://opelgt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359&page=1&pp=15&highlight=Manta+A/C
It has some good food for thought. GTJIM in New Zealand sent me one of his home made multi-V pulleys that he fabricated for Opel engines. There are pix of it in the thread. I think he may have more. You may also get some ideas for using the very small Sanden compressor I referenced in the thread. There's even a photo of it with mounting hardware for a SB Chevy. It's also available in twin groove format. It works very well in my little 3-cylinder Geo Metro and all the parts are very small. Just some food for thought.

Paul

· #28 · Jul 8, 2005

So that's what this funny looking pulley is for...

nobody

· #29 · Jul 8, 2005

Yes Paul, I had an idea from the beginning to move it closer to who needed it.

tekenaar

Discussion Starter · #30 · Jul 8, 2005

Sanden micro-size compressor . . .

Sportwagon75 said:
Otto - You might want to check out the following thread.
http://opelgt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359&page=1&pp=15&highlight=Manta+A/C
It has some good food for thought. GTJIM in New Zealand sent me one of his home made multi-V pulleys that he fabricated for Opel engines. There are pix of it in the thread. I think he may have more. You may also get some ideas for using the very small Sanden compressor I referenced in the thread. There's even a photo of it with mounting hardware for a SB Chevy. It's also available in twin groove format. It works very well in my little 3-cylinder Geo Metro and all the parts are very small. Just some food for thought.

Checked it out many moons ago and had already copied pics and specs for future reference.

My little Nippodenso unit is very similar to that Sanden unit, size-wise . . . ~1/2" larger diameter is all and with a single V-belt pulley. Bet he didn't get his for $15 though . . .

tekenaar

Discussion Starter · #31 · Jul 10, 2005

5-blade vs. 7-blade WP fan dimensions

oldopelguy said:
One other issue of concern in the Kadett with AC was the fan. The 1.9 motor is so close to the radiator that you can't space it forward to clear the pulley like the Manta and GT, instead they cut away the rear 1/2" of the fan instead to clear the pully. Doing it and keeping it balanced is a real chore if you have to do it to one yourself. Do yourself a favor and start out with a 7-blade one, though, to keep as much fan as you can.

To top it all off, the condenser sits right up against the support brace in the front, so no room for a "normal-sized" electric fan on the front either.

Currently my 1.9 uses a 5-bladed fan which has a measured ~1" frontal blade clearance to radiator's bottom tank lip, most rearward frontal fan obstruction. The 5-bladed WP fan mounts ~3/8" further forward (toward radiator, more crank pulley clearance) than the 7-blade fan, in case you're curious.

My WP fan clearance mockup is based on a 7-blade fan and an 11/16" spacer I had, mounted between the stock WP pulley and 7-blade fan. This results in ~3/16" clearance on both sides of the fan blade's closest obstructions . . . tight, but enough running clearance and I can use the full 360mm diameter of the fan without any blade modifications!

Rear V-belt will drive the WP and relocated alternator, front V-belt will only drive the A/C compressor on the driver side. WP radiator hose will be routed around the back of and under the alternator to the radiator. GT ARA A/C systems used a cast aluminum piece for lower radiator coolant routing with their twin piston compressor, which I will use to route coolant around passenger side mounted alternator. There's a bit more room to do this in a Kadett than in a GT . . .

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tekenaar

Discussion Starter · #32 · Jul 10, 2005

Dual groove crank pulley . . .

Paul said:
So that's what this funny looking pulley is for...

Paul,
Could you box the pulley up and parcel post it to me? My snail mail address is:

Otto Bartsch
P.O. Box 860608
Plano, TX 75086-0608

I'll send you something for your daughter's car's ignition switch, per Dave's earlier suggestion.

Send me your snail mail address so I can get it underway.

Paul

· #33 · Jul 10, 2005

Otto,

Sure thing. My address

Paul Crane
4814 Mount Zion Rd
Greenwood, AR 72936

However, I fly to St Louis at 630am Monday and dont get back until Thursday night. So I might not get in the mail until Friday. Hope that's not a problem.

tekenaar

Discussion Starter · #34 · Jul 11, 2005

Paul said:
Otto,

Sure thing. My address

Paul Crane
4814 Mount Zion Rd
Greenwood, AR 72936

However, I fly to St Louis at 630am Monday and dont get back until Thursday night. So I might not get in the mail until Friday. Hope that's not a problem.

Not a problem, Paul. Yours is on the way today and should be there by Thursday.

Would you, or anyone else reading this, have an extra 1.9 aluminum alternator bracket and an unmodified stock 7-blade WP fan? I have two fans, but both were pretty severely butchered by POs, so really no good for anything but measuring clearances.

Another thing I'll need (I thought I had another but can't find it) is the cast aluminum coolant duct that was used with ARA A/C systems and mounts between the WP and lower radiator coolant outlet with two hose pieces, see pic. I'll need this to reroute the lower radiator coolant hose around the repositioned alternator on the passenger side.

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jordan

· #35 · Jul 11, 2005

I have an unmodified alt. bracket and a 7 blade fan

GTJIM (R.I.P.)

· #36 · Jul 11, 2005 (Edited)

A bit More ...

tekenaar said:
Checked it out many moons ago and had already copied pics and specs for future reference.

My little Nippodenso unit is very similar to that Sanden unit, size-wise . . . ~1/2" larger diameter is all and with a single V-belt pulley. Bet he didn't get his for $15 though . . .

The new Sanden a/c compressor cost me $109 and I am still fluffing about with a low mount above the oil filter. BTW: the micro groove pulley that I made up turned out to be a different pitch to the Sanden compressor pulley so I have to go back to the drawing board ...... There is a single vee groove clutch pulley available for the Sanden compressors.
Here is a pic of the base plate I have made up that bolts to the three 10mm holes on the side of the block above the oil filter. The "notch" is to clear the oil pressure relief valve in the front cover.

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RallyBob

· #37 · Jul 11, 2005

tekenaar said:
Would you, or anyone else reading this, have an extra 1.9 aluminum alternator bracket and an unmodified stock 7-blade WP fan?

Otto, don't forget there are at least three different types of aluminum alternator brackets (plus the older cast iron brackets) There's the 'thin' style that is very prone to cracking, then there are the thicker-section pieces, and of those there are two offsets (away from the side of the block, not fore-aft). This fact used to really mess me up swapping stuff out when I'd try a fan belt and it wouldn't fit because of a longer bracket!

Bob

Paul

· #38 · Jul 12, 2005

Otto,

I didn't realize it but I actually had a later flight, so I did get your pulley in the mail. I have that lower radiator hose of which you speak. I have a spare alt bracket too. But I'm in St Loius until Thursday late.

tekenaar

Discussion Starter · #39 · Jul 14, 2005

Aluminum alternator bracket offsets

RallyBob said:
Otto, don't forget there are at least three different types of aluminum alternator brackets (plus the older cast iron brackets) There's the 'thin' style that is very prone to cracking, then there are the thicker-section pieces, and of those there are two offsets (away from the side of the block, not fore-aft). This fact used to really mess me up swapping stuff out when I'd try a fan belt and it wouldn't fit because of a longer bracket!

Bob

Hmmmm, didn't realize that . . . guess I've been lucky. Got any offset measurements, Bob? Been doing some more trial fitting and may be able to get by with modifying 2 stock aluminum alternator brackets if I mount the alternator upside down on the passenger side. Have to do some more detailed measurements, but I'll let everyone know how mock-ups turned out. Back to work . . .

tekenaar

Discussion Starter · #40 · Jul 19, 2005 (Edited)

Latest dual pulley update . . .

Received Dave's dual crank pulley in the mail from Paul . . . thanks to both.

Had assumed that dual crank pulley was just a second pulley in front of the standard single crank pulley . . . WRONG! The WP/alternator drive pulley is moved forward by 5mm and the compressor drive pulley is mounted to the rear of it. Thought it was a bit odd that they changed the standard belt path of the single pulley, requiring spacers for both alternator and WP. So, just to save everyone else looking at this some time, let me recap what I've found, at least what's used for "stock" A/C mounting.

When I checked my pictorial parts manual, sure enough, WP and alternator drive spacers were used on both the Kadett and 1900/Manta. They don't show any ARA stuff, BTW, so that was strictly a "dealer select" option. Kadett mounts the GM compressor up high on driver side, much like the GT, while the 1900/Manta mounts it low on the passenger side right next to the oil filter, but they both use the same pulley and WP/alternator spacers according to the parts manual.

This changes all my previously measured mounting locations, so it's back to the drawing board for me. Soon as I have some new measurements, I'll post here. Thanks to all who are providing bits and pieces for this. Hope to arrive at a general installation guide with critical measurements for using a Sanden/Nippodenso 10-piston type compressor, the most commonly used one, for A/C conversion.

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