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Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer
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Discussion Starter #1
Working on kits to make stroker 2.6L motors out of our 1.9L

Got the prototypes almost done.. They Clear the block with no more modification that boring the block out to 97mm or so.

Wanted to show a few differences :

STD crank vs 2.3L TD Crank are very different.. and here is what is different.

The differences between a Opel STD (Non 2.4L) Crank.. and a 2.3L TD crank.

Differences #1

You will notice the thrust bearing and its surface is larger on the 2.3L than the STD crank. To be able to use it in a Gas motor requires a Shim on each side of the thrust bearing to set the Crank in the motor properly.
 

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Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer
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7,435 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Differences #2

The Crank Weights and the Rod Bearing Journals are different.

A) Crank weights are thinner and more balanced.

B) Rod Bearing Journals are larger than the STD, but more balanced.

So even though the weights are lighter, the larger Rod Bearings end up evening things out.
 

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Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer
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Discussion Starter #3
Difference #3

Given the larger Rod Journal the STD rod "floats" at the crank.

So like a Diesel we have to "Piston Steer" the rod.

Long story short..

In a STD Opel CIH, the rod fits the crank side to side.. and the piston "Floats" left to right on the wrist pin.

In the stroker, we reverse that, the float is at the crank and not at the piston..

You may also notice the 2.6L piston is a bit shorter than the 2.4L ( Center ) or the 2.0L piston.
 

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Vendor
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87 Posts
Interested

I was planning on going the 2.4 route, but this is interesting. But I have a few questions. What keeps the thrust bearing shim in place? Machine the block? Does the block require any other machining for this idea? And, lastly, can I go in to order a kit for this? Inquiring minds want to know...:yup:
 

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Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer
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7,435 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I was planning on going the 2.4 route
I have A single 2.2L coming that is not spoken for.. No 2.4L and they are getting harder as each year passed to find.. ( Thus the 2.6L Kit, as I am getting 2.3L TD Cranks in )

What keeps the thrust bearing shim in place?
Tension will do it according to the machinist. When you slide them together its tight, and they will be behind the thrust bearing surface. So shouldn't see any wear.

But I was planning on Indian Head Shellac, Permatex #1, something like that, to give a little extra security.

Machine the block ? Does the block require any other machining for this idea?
Nothing more than boring the block to match the pistons. Which will a little larger than a 2.0L bore, but enough to still fit a 2.0L Head gasket.

lastly, can I go in to order a kit for this? Inquiring minds want to know...:yup:
Not right now, still finalizing pricing and parts costs. I know I have the parts to make 2 more sets. Will have 5 more cranks coming from Europe. So possibly 7 sets will be for sale once I get them made in batch.

But first have to find out the overall price from the shop ( he hasnt given me the final bill, and we havent talked about how much savings from getting them made in a batch will be.

The Complete kit :

Custom Pistons, Customized 2.3L Crank, 2.4L Rods, and Crank Bearing Kit ( with spacers ). Is looking about like $1800 ish..

$900 Crank and work
$200 Pistons w/ rod assembly ea. ( $800 )
Bearing Kit $100

The work your shop would need to do would be clean and bore your block.
Install Piston Rings
Install Crank Kit
Install Pistons..

Thats it.. Any shop will be able to do it.
 

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Opelitis afflicted
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530 Posts
Is there additional head work required for the conversion or will the standard 1.9 head be adequate?

While it might seem mad to send the modified parts back to Europe, I still might be interested.
 

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Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer
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7,435 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Is there additional head work required for the conversion or will the standard 1.9 head be adequate?
The 1.9L/2.0L Head will be fine to a point.

I would highly recommend getting the head upgrades with Bigger valves to help it breath and custom cam.

An OR-66 should work, we have an OR-77 on one motor, but its a bit Big, especially if your running EFI.

A Stock 2.4L Cam should work fine and I have a few of those getting checked out and polished.

While it might seem mad to send the modified parts back to Europe, I still might be interested.
Since your in Ireland, a 2.4L head would probably be a good option for you.

As for shipping to you, when you consider the cost of shipping to Ireland from Germany, and finding a shop to make the kit.. probably no more expensive than getting it from the US.
 

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Vendor
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87 Posts
I am definitely interested in a kit. And, seeing that we are a bunch of Charlies', it should work out well. Will the OR-66 work out well with a megasquirt EFI and the expected compression ratio? Is the cam overlap compatible with EFI?
 

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Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer
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7,435 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Personally would recommend the 2.4L cam it has a split profile that was designed with strokers in mind. That is if smoothness and runability are preferred over a few HP.

If balls out HP is wanted.. the OR-77H works, but its a beast of a cam.. Not sure i would recommend it on a EFI, the one we put it on has been cantankerous when it comes to dialing in the ignition to play nice with the EFI.

The OR-66 should be a good balance.
 

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Opeler
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3,687 Posts
Charles, are you sure that no machining of block will be needed (other than boring)?
Few years ago I have installed standard 2.4 guts in 1.9 block. Due to increased stroke of 2.4 crankshaft (85 mm vs. 70 mm) it required grinding of oil galley and the bottom of cylinders to make space for rods. Your kit has 90 mm crankshaft stroke, so even more grinding will be required.
 

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That's also what I was wondering. I will have to clearance the cylinders for a 347 ci. SBF that I am working on. The rod bolts will hit the cylinder "tails" so they have to be given @ .030 clearance to fit safely. I don't mind having the machining done. I just want to know for the budget.
 

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Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer
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7,435 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Charles, are you sure that no machining of block will be needed (other than boring)?
Few years ago I have installed standard 2.4 guts in 1.9 block. Due to increased stroke of 2.4 crankshaft (85 mm vs. 70 mm) it required grinding of oil galley and the bottom of cylinders to make space for rods. Your kit has 90 mm crankshaft stroke, so even more grinding will be required.
We had that issue creating the 2.7L. We had to cut back and trim the counter weights and such. Told this was due to the rod we were using is thinner.

Believe some of the 2.4L Crank clearance issues are related to the 2.4L Crank. It's crank weights are completely different than the 1.5L to 2.2L Cranks.

This is a 2.3L TD crank and as I noted earlier the rod journals are MUCH different than a 1.9L but the counter weights are thinner and smaller. So we don't have near the issues we had with 2.4L Cranks. It would seem right now that the steel pan vs AL pan is no longer an issue either.

As for the rod clearances, told it has been mocked up and there were no issues. He said the rods are different, and he massaged them.

I wanted to create this kits specifically so it would require little to no extra work from the machine shop outside of boring the block.

So far told that is the case.. Waiting on the prototype long block to confirm all that and prices.

But for now, it is assumed either through massaging the crank, or the rods, or pistons, we will not have issues with this being a bore the block and drop it in kit.

If that changes, I will have directions and such for the machine shop. But for now, it looks like he has it whipped.

Supposed to pick up the long block this Friday.
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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14,389 Posts
Personally would recommend the 2.4L cam it has a split profile that was designed with strokers in mind. That is if smoothness and runability are preferred over a few HP.
I absolutely love the stock Omega cam that my 2.4 engine came with! I drove a car with a 2.0 and a Combo cam for 20 years and always kind of hated it because of the lope and consequent tuning issues. The Omega cam has a very, very, slight lope, so you know you're getting a few extra horsepuppies, but it drives at normal around town rpm's like a normal engine. The power curve it dead straight. I've floored it from a dead stop to 100mph in my automatic GT and the torque stayed exactly the same throughout the rpm ranges of each gear. No surge of power as you hit the rpm sweet spot, no flattening out of the acceleration as each gear wound out. It feels like an electric car, but sounds like a V8.

:veryhappy
 

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Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer
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7,435 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Can one safely bore out a 1.9 to 97mm? Seems like a lot.
Yes, it's closer to 96.5mm but within the limits of the head gasket. Many have bored a 1.9L to 2.0L and this is only about a 1mm more.

Will you be able to rebore the block later if you have to. Probably not. That said, chances of getting that many miles and wear and tear on motor after your done, is slim. Worst case happens, you get a new block, and reuse your pistons and crank in it.

It is better to use a 2.0-2.4L block they have a little more meat in them. But these kits are so you don't have to get a European Block to build from. Because a 1.9L Block is way cheaper than a 2.0L block in the US. So much cheaper you could probably get Three 1.9L blocks and have them bored out for the cost of a 2.2L.
 

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Vendor
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87 Posts
Very interested to see how the long block comes out. I had a local machine shop help me with a 10 bolt head and chevy valves, guides,and hardened seats. This might be a great combo in the spare engine, which would turn into the regular engine when I get the gremlins out of the chassis.
 

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Registered
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Hi Gordo,
The picture was taken in San Francisco with my GF's GT.
She may have held the camera a bit crookedly.
Thomas
 
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