[sleeper]

Here is a pic of one of the couplers I made using Duane's ideas to mount the front Addco bar on my manta. I need to shorten the rodend/threadrd coupler a bit still but thought I would share a pic. I'll post more as I do the rest of the installation. Cheers

 

[sleeper]

So I made some progress this weekend but have run into a problem. Instead of drilling holes in my frame rails and u-bolting the sway bar bracket to the frame I made some plates with bolts plug welded into them to simply weld to the rails. Problem is there is a big rubber damper bushing where the front suspension subassembly bolts to the frame right next to where I want to weld. It looks like I could simply support the front subassembly with a jack stand and unbolt the piece that connects to the frame and pull out the bushing but am not sure if I will screw up the geometry/alignmnent of the front end when I bolt it back together. The haynes manual mentions suspending the front suspension from special hooks so that the bushings are "properly weighted" when you reassemble. I guess I'm being over cautious but am wondering if it is a big deal or not to detach and reattach the front suspension assembly one side at a time to do the welding? I'll try and post some pics tonight

 

[baz]

sleeper what that means is that if you had the subframe hanging from its bolts then torqued all the bolts up the suspention rubbers would be preloaded when you let the car down off jacks
so if you r taking one side off to weld a pad you can suport the body on a axil stand then suport the subframe on a trolly jack next to the wheel and lower it clear of the body , weld the pad , then jack it back into position and when you rebolt it the jack will have preloaded the subframe so the rubbers are in the right place when you take the car off the stand
then repeat for other side
it all comes down to having no twisting load on the mountings when you finnish

 

[sleeper]

Right on,
I kind of figured that was the case but wasn't sure what I was getting myself into. I can't wait to get those bars on the car, the whole project has gotten more involved at each step. I'll make sure to post pics of all of the brackets and stuff when it's all said and done. Thanks again

 

[RallyBob]

Problem is there is a big rubber damper bushing where the front suspension subassembly bolts to the frame right next to where I want to weld.

Just an FYI, but I've found that removing these rubber bushings as well as the ones at the top of the crossmember/frame junction and replacing them with metal ones will make almost as much an improvement in handling as the sway bars do.

For a simple 'test' as to the amount of deflection involved, try prying with something fairly soft (such as a piece of wood) between the rearmost part of the upper control arm bolt and the framerail. You can deflect the front crossmember about 1/4" to 3/8" with not too much trouble. Imagine the amount of movement going on when you have sticky tires on the car and about 1200 lbs of front end weight laterally deflecting the bushings?

You can imagine the tires are not held in perfect contact with the road this way....

 

[sleeper]

So,
How might I go about making or obtaining said metal bushings? would they be best made out of aluminium or steel? What about one of the hard plastics like delrin or even polyurithane? I wonder why they engineered so much slop into the suspension-does it make a smother ride? Could I just buy some round stock of the correct diameter and drill out the center? I do have access to a lathe but am not really qualified to run it.........I think that I will do this if I can figure out how. Thanks for the tip Bob!

 

[RallyBob]

I have made them numerous ways. The most expensive way was from billet aluminum. If you need drawings I have my blueprints still somewhere.

The cheapest way has been to simply weld them up from steel.

So for the lower bushings, I've used a piece of steel tubing with the same ID as the mounting bolt, capped at either end by a steel plate...essentially these plates are in the shape of a thick washer. The top mounts were welded to the crossmember top, with a nut welded to the underside of the new plate to allow bolting to the framerails. The neat part about this method is the fact that for racing I offset the rear lower holes, and shortened the top mounts an equal amount (flush with the crossmember). This lowered the car an additional 7/16"-1/2" without losing suspension travel.

For my ITB suspension I'm not allowed to weld to the crossmember or suspension parts, so I made the mounts from steel but made them bolt-in.


Here you can see the top mounts on a crossmember for a rally Ascona I'm building. They're just tacked in place at this point.

 

[sleeper]

Exellent,
I like the steel method, So for the lowers do you weld the thick washer like endcaps to the subframe extension or do you just use them to clamp it in place?

 

[sleeper]

here are the couplers on the car:

 

[RallyBob]

I weld everything together, with the sleeve in place so you don't crush the 'washers' when you torque it down. At the same time I cap the end of the arm itself, and also fill the hole in the side of it to prevent it from cracking....which they do all to easily I've found when you drive hard on these old cars.

 

[RallyBob]

and the end-cap...

 

[sleeper]

here's the bracket I'm trtying to weld to the frame to clamp on the second (addco) sway bar:

 

[sleeper]

Nice pics,
I will definitaly be using those ideas, it will be easy enough to do once I get the extension off of the car. It looks like I will have to wait until tommorrow to tear into it- I really wish I had a garage!

 

[sleeper]

Today I made some progress but was unable to remove the subframe extension because of the bolt that goes through the frame, bushing and extension. that sucker seems to be fused inside the bushing and no amount of hammering or pounding or wrenching would pop it out, the bushing seems to be permanently attached to the bolt. Any advice on how to remove it? I did manage to weld the bracket on the ends and the side of the frame away from the bushing and it is plenty strong but I really wanted to seal it all the way around to keep moisture out. I may just end up spraying a bunch of undercoating in/on it to protect it unless someone has some magic trick for removing bolts stuck in rubber bushings. the hardest thing is I can't heat it to loosen it. Here is a pic of the bracket partially welded on:

 

[sleeper]

here it is showing the underside with the bushing in the end of the subframe extension and that frickin bolt with some red wax on it (it did get a little hot during the welding even though I did it in small sections and let it cool between welds, so I tried the wax trick to no avail)

 

[sleeper]

Well,
I still can't get that damn bolt out of the subframe extension. I would greatly appreciate any suggestions there. I went ahead and welded both brackets as close to the bushing as I dared and bolted everything up-works great, except the exhaust now rests on the swaybar! in the diagram from addco it shows it clearing but my engine mounts may be tired or the exaust may be low for some reason. Anyway, I had to add some spacers I made out of aluminium to make everything clear:

 

[sleeper]

Next I moved on to the rear bar-which is supposed to be a straight bolt on instalation to replace the existing bar, yeah right. the poly bushings they sent originally were the wrong size for the bar, the ones that were sent to replace them are the right size for the bar but too short to be clamped properly (see pic). Also, the ends of the bar are a different style than the original, with no clear way to attach it to the links, the hole in the end is larger than the factory bolt but too small to accept the bushing from it. I am going to contact addco tomorrow about it. Any one else run into this with the addco bars?

 

[opelbits]

You didn't say if the bolt turns at all. It could rotate where it goes thru the frame but twist the bushing with it. If this is the case, you cut the head off the bolt and slide the remainder out of the frame along with the subframe arm. At that point, you could drill out or ? to remove the bolt.

Silicroil (Kano Kroil) works wonders, too. Nothing else like it...

Beware of that area of the frame. Here in the rust-belt, the area just above that bolt tends to rot. Battery acid can make it's way down there, too. I used to work on Alfa Romeos and a couple of our more 'enthusiastic' clients actually tore the metal the sway mounts bolt to right out of the car. They tended to notice the car didn't feel the same and there was a 'clunking' noise. It became a small badge of honor to say they drove hard enough to do that.

 

[sleeper]

The bolt spins in the hole in the frame and the bushing spins with it, I've been tempted to cut off the head of the bolt but actually have to drive the car most days so I guess I would need to make a new bolt ahead of time. If I can get the bushing off the car I could get a press on it to seperate the bushing to reuse it until I can make a new steel bushing ala Ralley Bob. Thanks for the idea I had kinda put that option out of my head for some reason. I may be able to do this the right way after all.

 

[baz]

sounds like the bolt is rusted on to the ferrel in the bush and the ferrel has come loose from the rubber
dose the large cup washer come off the thread end if so you can cut the head off the bolt and remove the bolt and ferrel that way
you realy need to replace the bush if the ferrel is loose as it will die very quickly because it is not working right and all the good work with the sway bars would go to waste