eMachineShop order... need something made?

2447 Views 22 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Sporqster, Jun 3, 2005

Sporqster

Discussion Starter · May 20, 2005

I'm working on a trigger wheel setup for my wife's D16Y8 (yes, Honda) and was planning on ordering some parts from eMachine shop. I used their software to make the part, got the quote, and it's like $105 for 1 part, $110 for 2 parts, $113 for 3... you get the idea... all set-up cost. Anyone interested in an Electromotive TEC trigger for kit for D-series Honda, or Opel, or whatever?- not looking to make any profit, just share costs.

This was for a laser cut trigger wheel from .19" 1040 steel... I'm working on redesigning to make it work on thinner material or maybe mill cut to get the cost down a little- of course if any of you need something cut from the same material I can put it in the same g-code program and the cost per piece goes roughly in half, in 3rds for the 3rd part, etc.... any takers? Anyone want some fancy brackets, trigger wheels, etc?

BETTER YET- any of you guys got a CNC that could be hired out in exchange for materials, homemade wine, and an generous helping of thankyous?!?

I also need to make a plastic housing for this thing that may be machined out of a big block of ABS or possibly SLS/SLA/FDM- rapid prototype... news as it develops- still working on the design on that one though.

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1 - 20 of 23 Posts

davegt27

· #2 · May 21, 2005

I'm interested a trigger wheel sounds great for the Opel

i down loaded the e-machine software but i just don't have the skill to come up with anything

would love to have a custom intake manifold to mount my quad TB's on

Davegt27

bubba16430

· #3 · May 21, 2005

In the risk of sounding really stupid, Whats a trigger wheel?

benncojr

· #4 · May 21, 2005

I am glad you asked. I wanted to know also.

davegt27

· #5 · May 21, 2005 (Edited)

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/products/pictures/six_triggers.jpg

can be used for direct fire ignition

So basically the little cut out in the wheel allows an on off on off signal to be generated buy the Hall effect sensor.

That pulse is then used by the FI/ignition computer to time when and how long the ignition spark will be.

also used by FI systems to synchronize when to fire the fuel injectors

People that run Megasquirt FI systems, a lot of them head to the Junkyard to get Ford Trigger wheels and adapt them to whatever car they have

we have been needing something like this for years (that's available to every one not to just a select few)

HTH HTMS (hope this makes sense)

Davegt27

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GoinManta

· #6 · May 28, 2005

Why not use a pertronix as a trigger?

Just Curious..

Charles

davegt27

· #7 · May 28, 2005

The classic answer is that a trigger wheel mounted on the crank is more precise then what One in the distributor would be.

and you would be able to eliminate the slight parasitic loss from the Dist

but all this is a little bit of smoke and mirrors on a street car below 7K rpm probably wont. make a difference

The real reason is bling bling its just cool to run crank trigger.

JMTCW
Davegt27

Travis

· #8 · May 28, 2005

GoinManta said:
Why not use a pertronix as a trigger?

While the pertronix is a capable trigger, it doesn't determine WHEN to fire to coil. That's determined by the weights and spring within the distributor. With a toothed wheel on the crank, cam or even distributor shaft, the computer can track the position of the motor in real time and trigger the coil to fire. This allows for much more flexibility in ignition timing.

-Travis

Sporqster

Discussion Starter · #9 · May 31, 2005

Think I need my own CNC!

I've got the design about done in eMachineShop, and all together the bill is like $550 with aluminum housings and fancy brackets and what-not. Crap that is a lot of freakin' money for putting parts together that were more or less free... think I'm going to have to make some of this stuff myself. Might still go with the laser cut for the trigger wheel.

Got me to thinking though... for a couple grand I could get my OWN tabletop CNC and make all the custom parts I want. However, my CNC experience is limited to programming g-code on a late 80's vintage CNC mill roughly the size of a volkswagen. Too big for my overstuffed garage. There's a lot of cool table top CNC's out there now though... like check this one out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...me=STRK:MEWA:IT

There's also a DynaMyte 2400 that looks like a real legit piece of equipment... but I know just about nothing about these things.

Any machinists wanna put in their $.02?

Sporqster

Discussion Starter · #10 · May 31, 2005

BTW- Dave - send me drawings of what you're wanting to do and I can prolly get it into eMachineShop for you while the boss isn't looking ;-)

just send drawings to sporqster at msn.com

GoinManta

· #11 · May 31, 2005

Travis said:
While the pertronix is a capable trigger, it doesn't determine WHEN to fire to coil. That's determined by the weights and spring within the distributor. With a toothed wheel on the crank, cam or even distributor shaft, the computer can track the position of the motor in real time and trigger the coil to fire. This allows for much more flexibility in ignition timing.

-Travis

But if you used a Pertronix, and removed the wieghts and such and welded it solid to the distributor shaft, would't that then be a accurate trigger?

Just Curious..

Charles

Sporqster

Discussion Starter · #12 · May 31, 2005

how many teeth are on the Petronix? The TEC II I'm using wants to see 57 blips and a long blip... 60-2 tooth wheel. So basically I'm making a wheel to cater to what that computer wants to see.

GoinManta

· #13 · May 31, 2005

I would assume the Pertronix would only have 4 "blips".... since it responds to the 4 lobes of the distributor shaft.

Charles

Travis

· #14 · May 31, 2005

Charles,

There are three problems with that approach.

1. A proper trigger wheel will have an extra or a missing tooth to provide an absolute reference. The computer will know that this indicates a given engine position. When you start the motor it will start to see pulses but as the computer doesn't know where the engine started, it won't have any position to start counting from. Once it see's the extra/missing tooth representing a given angle it can then keep track of position. If the extra tooth was at 0 degrees and you had 60+1 teeth on the wheel(6 degrees per tooth), the computer would know that at 0 degrees plus 3 teeth you'd be at 18 degrees. 0 degrees plus 11 teeth would be 66 degrees...

Let's say we weld the distributor shaft as you suggested and timed the motor at TDC. Each time a pulse came in to the computer, it would know the position was 0 degrees, 180 degrees, 360 degrees or 540 degrees(720 degrees per 4 stroke cycle) but would have no way to determine which.

2. Assuming the issue above is solved, and there are ways to solve it, the pertronix would be capable of providing an accurate indication of position every 180 degrees. The problem is that these position indicators are so far apart that the engine could change speed enough to throw off the position calculations.

Let me use an anology to help explain.

Let's say I told you the time once a minute and I asked you to tell me when it was 37 seconds past the minute, only counting in your head. Chances are, you'd be off by at least a few seconds or more. If instead I told you the time every 5 seconds, you'd be able to tell me when it was 37 seconds past the minute with very little error. Likely less than a second off.

In the analogy the error is due to variations in your counting between the last time I told you the time and the desired time. In the ignition system the error is due to changes in engine speed and changes in acceleration that happen between the last tooth and the derired engine position. The errors are in different places, but have the same affect...

3. Electromotive requires the use of a given wheel configuration. It will fall on it's face without it....

-Travis

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Travis

· #15 · May 31, 2005

GoinManta said:
I would assume the Pertronix would only have 4 "blips".... since it responds to the 4 lobes of the distributor shaft.

Charles

2 "blips" per crank revolution Charles, as the distributor spins at half the crank speed

-Travis

GoinManta

· #16 · May 31, 2005

Travis said:
Charles,

There are three problems with that approach.

-Travis

Ow.. ow.. ow... my brain hurts now

(this would probably be why "do-it-yourself" F.I. is not in the cards for any of my Opels...)

RallyBob

· #17 · May 31, 2005

Why not just order a trigger wheel from Electromotive and attach it to the Opel crank pulley?

http://www.electromotive-inc.com/products/mag_sensors.html

Certainly cheaper than a full-custom trigger assembly!

Bob

Sporqster

Discussion Starter · #18 · May 31, 2005

That was plan A until I realized that I would still have to make something to attach this to the shaft, and I can't screw it up- the out of round tolerance on this thing is .001"... I don't trust myself to manually drill holes to within a .001:.

From what I recall, Electromotive charges some $50 or so for these too, and I would still have to make the housing so that I can mount the pickup at the prescribed .01" away.

Nathan Acree

· #19 · Jun 1, 2005

Sporqster,

Are you still considering an emachineshop order, I have a custom trigger wheel that I need made too, for a Ford EDIS/Megasquirt II combination going on the V6 conversion.

Let me know and I'll get the file to you so we can get a quote, I would like to get a few of them.

Thanks,

Nathan Acree
Albuquerque New Mexico

RallyBob

· #20 · Jun 1, 2005

Sporqster said:
That was plan A until I realized that I would still have to make something to attach this to the shaft, and I can't screw it up- the out of round tolerance on this thing is .001"... I don't trust myself to manually drill holes to within a .001:.

From what I recall, Electromotive charges some $50 or so for these too, and I would still have to make the housing so that I can mount the pickup at the prescribed .01" away.

I don't know if you remember this thread, but my own solution was to mount one of those wheels to the back of a pulley (I eyeballed it within .006"), then trued it on a crankshaft grinder. I made my own pickup mount, but Electromotive also sells their own generic version. Mine was made by hand...no machine shop. As long as it's adjustable it doesn't matter too much.

http://www.opelgt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=40860&postcount=61

Bob

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