[rangerrick]

Hey guys take from someone who inhaled fuel fumes for five days over a 2,300 mile trip!!! The fuel tank inside this car can kill you if not functioning properly!!! I have now disassembled the spare tire and its support and sub floor in the rear of the 1972 GT I just purchased, what I found was beyond my belief (20yr. airplane mechanic) Fuel vent hoses, What fuel vent hoses??? The are absolutely NO hoses left back inside there, except for the small bits left under the clamps & the two T fittings it's nothing but crumbs that are yellow in color!!! They have totally, I Mean totally all but disintegrated to nothing but almost dust??? And get this, I bought this car from a widowed wife who's husband died two yrs. ago form nothing other than lung cancer, and when it asks if the cause was due to cigarette smoking the death certificate copy I have says no!!!! GET IT??? I'm just getting better after a 5 day trip that ended last Wed, and when I entered my mom's home she could smell the fuel vapors on my wife and mine clothes!!! This is a serious problem, I now know that when smoking we could have been blown too kingdom come!!! Not enough could be said about this dangerous design feature of the Opel GT!!!!!If you've never checked your fuel tank you're over due!!!!!!!! I will add I had this car in two different shops in the Houston area and no one noticed or spent me to find this smell even though I complained to the second shop of this condition!!! I would have to say, if you smell gas fumes (98.9 %) chance it's from in back at the tank than under the hood!!! I've got a small rigging problem on the head lights and will be going after the headlight wiring next, for sure!!! I can only imagine what would have happened if the wiring caught fire with the tank vent lines in their present condition!!!

Sorry, but true!!!
Ranger out!!!

 

[pvcar]

yups its one of those opelrs things that u do that the same time as say the headlight wires and other such things, most mechanics would never think of how or what would cause most of things that go bad in our opels to go bad.

 

[rangerrick]

Why is it were using poly hose for vent lines???

You know something has occurred to me, is this poly tube NOT the right material to be using??? I have never seen butyl rubber hose disintegrate to this level of crumbs, yet OGTS sent me the kit and service instructions and here I go putting back the original inferior line (IMHO) wrong stuff!!! Do any of you senior Opeler's agree and or question, or have used black fuel line hose instead??? Because I feel this is a lot of clean up effort and dangerous install to begin with now, and I feel I'm just buying time until the next hose rot out!!! Tempted at this point to go to the local auto parts store
and get the other hose and return this stuff for a store credit! It's a PITA getting back in there anyway, and I'm skinny!

 

[bear]

Rangerrick, Same car, different year, I replaced my fuel tank vent lines with regular fuel hose from the local auto parts store and also used regular hose clamps. I had the same problem to a point, there were no fumes or leaks back there, but when I moved the original plastic hoses, for a fuel quantity problem, they started disintegrating, so I replaced them. That was almost 10 years ago and today the hoses are still in good shape with no visible cracking. From the fuel tank forward, I'll be using 1/2" stainles steel lines to supply fuel to the V-6 3.4 engine, and from the engine back to the tank 1/4" stainless steel for the return lines and fuel vent vapor lines. I would suggest something similar or even a regular fuel hose from the tank to your fuel pump to eliminate the plastic lines that go from the tank to the engine under the car. JMTCW.

 

[rangerrick]

Thanks Ron for the post!

Being a fellow A&P like myself You know two of the worst jobs in avaiation maint. is crawling inside a fuel cell and or changing the blue water in the Lav!!! Being a skinny guy I've always got these glory jobs inside a fuel cell cleaning it out and installing anti chaff duct tape over the rivets so the bladder fuel cell wont develop a leak in hte future, or back in the tail cone!
I just talked to Gil at OGTS about this and maybe returning the hose for a store credit. Gil said that this was top of the line Tygon tubing that is far superior than the original clear vent line. I'm familar with Tygon as the King Air 200 and other PT6A engined airplanes I've worked on use Tygon for all the drain line hoses to the engine excessories (tuff stuff) So I installed it and will see if it lasts at least 10 yrs. or more as they claim! I'm glad that job's behind me!!! Good idea of you to put in stainless and a hard line in your fuel injection system on the V6 GT. Love to go for a ride in her when she's done!!! The world should definately look better in your GT's rear view mirror (especially if there's a Vett back there)!!!!!

Ranger out!

 

[bear]

Well, I've done the fuel cell trick numerous times, but because I only worked on military fighter types, didn't have any blue water chores until we got the motorhome. Because of my physique, similar to yours, I was assisted getting down the intake between the spike and structure of the SR-71 to do a compressor blade and intake inspection. By being assisted, I meant 4 guys would pick me up and slide me down the intake until I could clear the spike and move under my own power. As far as the Tygon tubing, I'll leave that up to your discretion, although I would change all the plastic lines from tank to pump, from pump to carb and all the vent lines with regular fuel hose. As for the GT, it if runs as well or better than my monza, it will be a blast to say the least, if it all holds together.

 

[West Coast GT]

Dude! You were advised of this condition before your trip!

In your thread titled Advice on driving a GT Xcountry (Please)
I included the following tip/advice:

"Lift the rear compartment flap to the spare tire and sniff for fumes. There's a bunch of fuel vent lines, and fuel lines, that are 30 years old. These old plastic lines become pretty fragile. If you smell gas, replace them before your trip."​

But, for the next person who asks, I'll make sure to list this item 1st, and possibly word it much stronger. Glad you make it though.

 

[rangerrick]

Dude eh? Thanks for your support!

Yes you were the only one who mentioned this!!! It was towards the end of your post and towards the end of the string of posts and I'm not sure I read it until I actually got to Texas to pick up the car!!! I had the car at Chris's Euro cars that deals only in European automobiles and he was given cart blanch to find and fix all before I flew out!!! I didn't notice the smell until after the first fill up, so I took it to another shop who soaked me for $765 and I have a dispute in with my credit card company as we speak over this issue! The point is this is a dangerous design flaw IMHO, what happens when you're rear ended in one of these cars??? Does the gas tank crush and send fuel spraying FWD into the vehicle? Is the Naugahyde flap going to save you from the flames??? Id like to see some accident reports from rear ended Opel Gts!!! I'm glad that I installed the Tygon clear hoses provided by OGTS as I can now see (even with a half tank) that the two fuel vent hoses that attach to the tank have fuel sloshing into them from just going up and down hills, Once again even with half a tank!!! This means if they are totally disintegrated that this fuel will be sloshed into the belly of the car as in my case providing even worse fuel fumes than that of just a vent!!! This is why the fuel lines totally turn to crumbled dust, since when is a fuel vent lines also doubling as a fuel line with standing fuel in it at all times IE: go up hill the aft vent line will spill fuel into the vent line, go up hill and the FWD vent line will fill with fuel and hold the most from what I can see a big slug of fuel before it rises the the support clips above. The vent lines are mounted horizontally, not a vertical solid line up as in most applications the FWD passenger side seems to be the worst of the two for standing fuel as it has to turn and go back before the hose can rise enough to stop fuel from standing! And the maintenance manual I have gives very little on the routing of these lines, Gils Tech note was the most informative thing I've read yet!!! I'm back to the Black rubber fuel line idea, at least on the Right Fwd anyway As I have tried to raise the hoes and chase the fuel back into the tank and NO JOY (some will always be standing in that hose!!! I like the car guys, it handles well and got me all the way from Texas! It's a bit gutless, but then again it's compression is low and uneven and still has the Solex POS carb and an automatic. I just don't like this fuel system, even now that it's fixed and the smell is gone!!! Maybe if they could have put them in the same spot however in a sealed bay by its self with an access panel other than a canvass flap??? Once again (beating a dead horse) Great Lines followed by some bad designs!!! I have never seen and or expected to see what I saw in the rear of my GT I'm thinking, Ok fuel fumes from the vents not fuel being sloshed out and lying in the belly of the car!!! Maybe GM will bring them back like the Ford Thunderbird with a better car??? Nahhhhh!!! Don't think so...

 

[West Coast GT]

You're right. The vent line configuration and material selection appear to be design flaws. And what's the point of all these vents? I can see where we would want overflow consideration for expansion during very hot days. But wouldn't we really just need one vent line for vapors?

Your question regarding rear-end accidents in GTs. I've had one really bad one, and my son had a mild one. Both cars were totaled. Neither gas tank was penetrated - I can't figure out why not. Opelers must live protected lives. The bad one: my passenger bailed out of the car as it was still rolling through on-coming traffic. I'd shown him how the tank sits just behind a vinyl flap, and has only an inch or so between it and the single skin of the body. Yes, definitely not a safe design.

Have you seen the fuel line under the car? Plastic. :no: Old brittle plastic. :no: Old stinkin' brittle no-good plastic. :no: NYLON . . . Volvo and others used same stuff in FI apps into 90's!!!

I've got a roll of aluminum tubing I bought at the Good Guys car show a year ago. It's going to run from the tank to the carb.

So what are some of the other design flaws identified in the forum?
1. Headlight wiring as it passes from the engine bay into the headlight buckets. Corrodes, chafes, shorts.

2. The fuel vent lines (kicked that one around enough).

3. Ignition switch (lots of material here in this forum)

4. Those four damned stinkin' bolts that hold the steering column to the dash frame. The heads have a hex shaped pintle that shears off, leaving you with what amounts to a rounded carriage bolt head that you can't do a damn thing with! Then you lay on your back and drill it out.

5. Solex Performance - need I say more?

6. Solex Warpage - Don't leave off that heat shield below the Solex carb. The heat will warp the cheap-ass pot metal body and you will have vacuum leaks until the day you buy your 1st Weber.

7. Don't ever break the windshield. Ever. My mother once thought it was concern for her safety that I insisted she wear the seatbelt.

8. Dual non-retractible seat belts.

9. Hidden in-line fusible links.

10. An incredibly beautiful body that makes everything else worth while. Wait, are we still talking GTs here. 'Cause this is sounding like another issue us guys get suckered into.

 

[bear]

Now that's curious, when you say the fuel vent lines hold a slug of fuel after going up and down some hills. Maybe the way they're configured in you car is different than mine. Both the front and rear lines go straight up to the base of the rear window and run horizontally across there with a "T" connected to top part of the gas filler tube that Ts into the vent line that goes under the tank back to the charcoal cannister forward of the radiator support. The car would have to be almost vertical for fuel to reach the horizontal run of my hoses. In the case of a rear end collision, I can tell you, my 71 GT gas tank was not touched when I was #5 in a 10 car on I-5 here in CA. The gas tank is supported on a fairly heavy piece of square tubing with 4 stout bolts and there are three sheetmetal panels between the bumpers and the fuel tank. It would take a lot to get near the gas tank IMHO. Yes, the original vent lines will disintegrate and fuel will run under the tank and right out on the ground through the vent line hole in the floor of the tank area, it is sloped for that reason. And yes there design flaws in the car, but, they have been identified on this site and others and it behooves the owner to make sure they have addressed those flaws and done the required preventative maintenance. The manufacturer sure isn't going to do anything after 30+ years. You've got the car, you know the problems, don't complain, others already have, just fix them. This may sound harsh, but I believe the problems noted are no where near as severe as the exploding gas tanks on a well known pickup, or the propensity of certain high CG vehicles to roll over at an impromptu moment. JMTCW.

 

[rangerrick]

Hey thanks Guys< I'll stop whining now!

Your right Ron I do have the car now and you can rest assure I will address the problems with the car with the help of everyone here and at OGTS!!!
The service manual I got with the car is far better than the Opel GT maint. manual I got from OGTS for $28 tha'ts for sure. Ron my FWD. right vent line is bent back around toward the rear of the tank as per. Gils instructions that come with the hose kit and is what my other Gt parts cars have??? It has to do this to stay under the tire bulkhead unless you've routed that Fwd then up and then back towards the rear in front of the tire hold down bracket on the left (only narrow spot I can see you could do this) If the line was aluminum with anodized T fitiings I would't give a hang!!! You were smart to use the fuel line Ron, it's made to have fuel standing in it and under pressure! And West Coast GT Thanks again for your advice for the long trip, and also on this post especially some of our shared flaws cars/ and self!!!LMAO at the seat belt line and winsheild protection!!! That's what makes this site so great, we share!!! I have always shared knowledge and made it a point to let fellow Mechs. know that keeping knowledge to yourself doesn't make you a better mech. makes you dangerous!!! I being 46 now was in the 8th grade when a guy that my mother worked with bought a new Gold Metallic GT, was hooked ever since even though I never rode in one let alone owned & drove one until now! We all had muscle cars I had a 69 Javelin with a 390 AMX engine, my friends drove a 67 Camaro, or a 68 Mustang, 72 Z28 stroked Camaro ect.... cars you could by for $250-$500 back then and put some work into them!!! they sell for$4000-$8000.00 now!!! Makes me sick

 

[bear]

O.K. Open foot, Insert mouth. I blew it. My fwd line also makes a "U" turn at the side of the tank and goes under the the brace, then up to the base of the rear window. So I can see a bit of fuel remaining in that part of the line. But, low pressure being what it is will suck that fuel back into the tank when the volume of low pressure overcomes the resistance of the fuel in the line to move back to the tank. Kinda like a siphon effect but stronger because of the continual vacuum from the engine. It's the pressure/area rule, more area in the tank and lines on one side of the fuel slug and only the line area on the other side, so the fuel has no choice, it will get sucked back into the tank, eventually. It's the same principle as the fuel shutoff valves on an aircraft with single point refueling. Because my GT is stripped with only the fuel tank in it right now, I can see where it may be possible to lay the fwd vent line on top of the tank next to the brace for the spare tire shelf. The tank is radiused at that point and may allow the line to lay there nice and snug and be above the vent connection at that point, rather than lay lower than the connection along side the tank. I'm gonna take a closer look at that and probably lay that line there so it will be above the connection completely. I went to a local hot rod gathering/car show last thursday nite, and there was a 56 chevy with a tricked out 350 for sale, asking price was $20,500. Margaret tapped me on the shoulder and said there is help for me yet on the GT, she pointed to a very clean VW bug, with a SBC chevy under the front hood. She did that while I was ogling a beautiful 57 chevy with a 500+ cu.in MOPAR Hemi in it. There were maybe 100-200 cars there, all locally owned, and very loud, with bumpity bumpity cams in them all. Next year, I'll be in that lineup.

 

[jerseydave]

I was prepping the car for the rewiring and removed the spare tire tray and to my surprise (of course I should have looked at this already) there was a pile of brittle plastic and T-fittings. This will be one more thing to check off my to do list this winter. I called OGTS and the new plastic tube is on the way. I have reviewed the threads and I should have this taken care of by the end of next week.

 

[dcm013]

No offense to Gil and Dennis, but I'd skip the plastic tubing they sell and stick with rubber fuel line. I bought their tubing in 2000 for my GT. The original tubing was not really in too bad of shape but I did it as a precaution anyway.

This Oct. when I drove it to the Gage's house for a get together I smelled gas fumes. After I got home I took a look and the line had come off the connection at the filler neck. It was hard and the ID was enlarged. The piece coming from the left side of the fuel tank was also very hard.

I replaced those with rubber lines and added hose clamps for security. I went in through the tail lights so I wasn't able to replace all the lines but I think the rest are still OK. If I ever have to replace the rest I'll use rubber.

Don

 

[kent]

I have to agree. I replaced my vent lines 18months ago and they need it again already:no: I plan on useing the fuel line hose this time.

 

[jerseydave]

I received the vinyl replacement hose from OGTS but have decided to replace the lines with fuel line which should be a one time replacement. I was looking over the placement of the lines and was under the car and noticed I only have one line going forward and that is to the fuel pump. I now think I will replace the fuel line with rubber fuel line over the existing plastic while I am at it. I did know that one of the lines broke off because it was loose and that is hanging in the garage. The question is should I use fuel line to replace the missing plastic lines or look for replacements?:sigh:

 

[2 Fast 4 U]

The question is should I use fuel line to replace the missing plastic lines or look for replacements?

Why not replace it with metal tubing, stainless steel or copper?

 

[jerseydave]

I haven't considered that option, but it is now a possibility. What kind of tubing would I use and what kind of fittings? I'll have to read but I think namba209 was using 1/2" and 1/4" stainless. The other question would be where would I buy it?

 

[kwilford]

I haven't considered that option, but it is now a possibility. What kind of tubing would I use and what kind of fittings? I'll have to read but I think namba209 was using 1/2" and 1/4" stainless. The other question would be where would I buy it?

It only has to be flexible tubing inside the car, and the best stuff (as documented a few times in this Forum) is rubber fuel line, and IIRC, use 5/16" as it fits the tees and nipples without any problems, which can be bought at any auto supply store.
The factory used nylon tubing under the car to the cannister, so that could be replaced with stainless or copper, but why unless the original tubing is damaged?

 

[bear]

I haven't considered that option, but it is now a possibility. What kind of tubing would I use and what kind of fittings? I'll have to read but I think namba209 was using 1/2" and 1/4" stainless. The other question would be where would I buy it?

Yep, that's what I used o.k., but you'll need a tubing bender for the stainless, especially for the 1/2". In retrospect I'd use 3/8" for the line to the fuel pump and 1/4" for the vent line to the vapor cannister. Oh yeah and some adel clamps, rubber cushioned, to hold the lines in place.