Opel GT Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
61 - 80 of 93 Posts

·
Just Some Dude in Jersey
Joined
·
13,987 Posts
Discussion Starter #61
Spacing issue. auto tranny to 2.4

It was warm enough today to lug the 2.4 outta the basement, fit the auto tranny, and maybe get it bolted to the Baron, but I've run across a problem.

I've got the engine and tranny in the back yard on a table and I'm trying to bolt the tranny and engine together, but it's getting really hard to tighten the bell housing bolts all the way on. I seem to be 3/16"-1/4" off somehow. I can't close the gap between the engine and tranny with out applying suspiciously dangerous amounts of torque to the bolts, so I'm reluctant to tighten them.

Now, I've been through this process with auto trannies before. First, when you put the torque converter on the tranny you have to spin it back and forth until it engages something inside and then the TC slides in an extra 1/2"-1" or so. I think I have accomplished this. The bolting area of the TC is recessed from the bell housing about 1/4". The flywheel/flexplate is on correctly and I have the 3/16" spacer washer installed between the flywheel and the engine on the output shaft.

I'm thinking that I need to remove that washer, but that flies in the face of previous installs of A/T's I've done on 2.0 engines. But this is a 2.4. Could it be that I don't need the spacer washer for this application? I'm aware that there are different thicknesses of them, but I never heard of not using one at all.

I didn't hear the characteristic "clunk" and feel the TC slide in as I rotated it, but I did work with it a bit and it did slide inwards about 1/4"-3/8" when I first started this process. If you don't get that second engagement and extra slide in as you insert the TC, the tranny won't work.

I have no idea what gear I'm in in the tranny. Should I be in park or neutral? I'm leaning towards just removing that spacer washer but I'd like advice first.

I know that no one on the site can provide me any help with A/T's, but I figured that I'd give it a try. OGTS was closed when I called.

Help!
 

·
Über Genius
Joined
·
8,828 Posts
Neutral or Park, your tranny won't care.

There are a few places you need to engage the torque converter. If it's in properly you would have an extra half inch or so of room to play with and the spacing of the crank spacer won't be an issue.

Have you fit that particular tranny to that particular engine without the torque converter?

My first instinct would be to say you don't have the torque converter all the way in. THe second instinct says you have a mounting impediment.

As always, Gordo, when you are trying to mount a tranny you need to make sure everything is well lubed or it can be a painful tight fit.
 

·
Just Some Dude in Jersey
Joined
·
13,987 Posts
Discussion Starter #63
Yuk! Yuk!

:veryhappy

Never mind guys, I just got the "clunk" to happen. I had gone outside to take pictures and straight edge measurements, when I neighbor walked across the driveway to help me drag the engine/tranny apart. As I was showing him the business about spinning the TC, it suddenly slid in and did the "clunk". Now it is recessed almost an inch from the bell housing. I easily slid the engine/tranny together and bolted things up. I'm back in business.

Brrrrrrr....... it's starting to get cold as night approaches. I think I'm gonna call it a day.


 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,988 Posts
Gordon, I'm not too sure that using the 1.9 pulley in place of the 2.4's is a good thing. I think I remember reading something about the 2.4's needing additional vibration damping/balancing and thats why they have the heavier pulley. Maybe a 2.4 owner can clarify.

As for your oil pressure sender clearance, you can always use a smaller one that does not have the idiot light feature. My 3.0's use that style.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
585 Posts
Gordon, for future reference, the last "clunk" you feel when installing the TC is the converter sliding into the pump gear and it's the most common mistake made when bolting up an automatic. You were wise not to tighten the bolts. If you had, best case senario would have been breaking the ears off of the pump gear and worse case would have been wiping out the pump as soon as you started the engine.
 

·
Opeler
Joined
·
403 Posts
I have scanned this thread and have not seen any mention of increased cooling. If you don't have increased cooling the very least you must do is to have an accurate water temp gauge, not the Opel gauge on your dash. These motors get hot fast. Once your water temp hits 200 shut it off. I warped the cylinder head on my 2.4 quickly because I was looking at the water temp on the dash...they are not accurate.
 

·
Just Some Dude in Jersey
Joined
·
13,987 Posts
Discussion Starter #69 (Edited)
I will have the fan on the engine, plus an electric fan on a thermostat in front of the radiator. The radiator is a brand new 3-core OGTS heavy duty radiator and the tranny fluid goes to a seperate tranny cooler. Plus the Baron has a vented Lenk hood.

Cooling? Check! Cross that one off the list.

:veryhappy

P.S. If the new OGTS radiator can't hack our steamy summers with my hot 2.4/auto set up, I can always reinstall my 3-core Honda aluminum one. That sucker was incredible at keeping the old 2.0 cool and was actually a bit too big for it. Under normal driving on a sticky summer day the thermostat wouldn't even get to halfway.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
1,284 Posts
Gordon, I'm not too sure that using the 1.9 pulley in place of the 2.4's is a good thing. I think I remember reading something about the 2.4's needing additional vibration damping/balancing and thats why they have the heavier pulley. Maybe a 2.4 owner can clarify.

As for your oil pressure sender clearance, you can always use a smaller one that does not have the idiot light feature. My 3.0's use that style.
Gordon

Check what Gary says!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,687 Posts
Gordon

Check what Gary says!!
I'll third what Gary and Dave say. For your reading pleasure: Harmonic balancer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Take special note of the second to last paragraph: Performance enthusiasts have been known to remove harmonic balancers, usually when the balancer is attached to the crank pulley, deciding that they aren't necessary and their mass reduces the performance of the engine. However, this is unproven and potentially very risky because the danger of damage to the engine from the vibrations the damper is intended to prevent is too high.

I know nothing about the 2.4 or even 1.9 crank balancing and vibration cancelling methods employed by Opel. But I do recall on bigger diesel engines, where a nose mounted vibration damper is a big deal, requiring periodic inspection of the inner and outer ring to detect any movement between the 2, which would require outright replacement. To not do so over the long term would result in likely crankshaft breakage. http://www.turbodieselregister.com/tdrarticles/tdrarticle73_TechTopics.html


Our engines aren't exactly sewing-machine smooth as it is. Unless somebody from OGTS (who warrantied your motor) says otherwise, I would put that damper back on. Just my 2 cents worth; don't want to see a crank through the block in your future!

Mike
 

·
Just Some Dude in Jersey
Joined
·
13,987 Posts
Discussion Starter #72
Oh man, what a disaster today turned out to be. It started out so promising. The weather was warmer than forecast, I got an early start at 8am, I calmly and methodically went about tightening and torquing and doing final attachments, everything was going so well.

I had a little hiccup yesterday when me and two neighbors assisted me in hand trucking my engine out of the basement through my skinny-ass doorway and narrow steps down to it. That’s when the engine bit the dust the first time and fell off the hand truck and got a little scratched up.

Then today, after the above mechanical work, and as I was jockeying the engine into the garage on the dolly I set it down on, it tipped off the too small dolly, dumped a couple quarts of tranny fluid all over the driveway, got scratched up even more, broke my customized for dual side drafts A/T fill tube, and totally nuked the nice new Wix oil filter. My big dolly had bit the dust after sitting all winter with the old engine/tranny on it until it split in two. I got the engine hoist out again, got it back on the dolly, rolled it into the garage and positioned it under the car, and started lowering the car down to it. Ooops…..I’ve got to get the motor mount crossmember under the engine to do this method of install. Long story short: It tipped off the dolly again and was all tangled up with the crossmember.

I got it propped back up sitting on the floor after untangling it, surveyed and assessed what a total cock up this had all turned into, cursed and flipped the bird to all my Opel stuff one last time, and said screw it and called it a day.



 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,988 Posts
I'll third what Gary and Dave say. For your reading pleasure: Harmonic balancer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Take special note of the second to last paragraph: Performance enthusiasts have been known to remove harmonic balancers, usually when the balancer is attached to the crank pulley, deciding that they aren't necessary and their mass reduces the performance of the engine. However, this is unproven and potentially very risky because the danger of damage to the engine from the vibrations the damper is intended to prevent is too high.

I know nothing about the 2.4 or even 1.9 crank balancing and vibration cancelling methods employed by Opel. But I do recall on bigger diesel engines, where a nose mounted vibration damper is a big deal, requiring periodic inspection of the inner and outer ring to detect any movement between the 2, which would require outright replacement. To not do so over the long term would result in likely crankshaft breakage. http://www.turbodieselregister.com/tdrarticles/tdrarticle73_TechTopics.html


Our engines aren't exactly sewing-machine smooth as it is. Unless somebody from OGTS (who warrantied your motor) says otherwise, I would put that damper back on. Just my 2 cents worth; don't want to see a crank through the block in your future!

Mike
Engine damaging harmonics... is what Rallybob said in post 5 of this thread: http://www.opelgt.com/forums/6g-2-2-2-4cih-raised-port-engine-issues/43170-gordos-2-4-engine-red-baron.html#post462066

Much easier to change it out before you install it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,497 Posts
oil sending unit

I use to find those in most of the GT's over the yrs. :haha:, some one replaced them instead of the stock, just makes the stock gauge work as an idiot light in the 1.9, no pressure gauge. :bs2:
 

·
Just Some Dude in Jersey
Joined
·
13,987 Posts
Discussion Starter #77 (Edited)
It’s looking like I’ll have to use my old 2.0’s exhaust system until headers from OGTS or Bob arrive and I’ll be danged if I was gonna put one of my two rusty looking Sprint manifolds on without doing something to make them look better. Bob warns that removing the webbing between the exhaust runners runs the risk of the manifold warping, but he didn’t say anything about swiss cheesing them! First I laid into it with my bench top belt sander with metal grade paper and sanded out most of the rust, pits, and scale, then I started out just drilling three holes in a triangle pattern on each side of the center runners. So far so good! But then I decided that it wasn’t cool enough and drilled a few more holes. That’s when the wheels fell off the baby buggy:





So this morning I decided to carve windows in the manifold linking all the holes. Some filing and another dose of 2000* spray can exhaust paint and now it looks cool enough for the Gordo:


 

·
Über Genius
Joined
·
8,828 Posts
The other cool side effect is that if the manifold does warp you will know. Those runners will never get too hot and will snap if it warps.
 

·
Just Some Dude in Jersey
Joined
·
13,987 Posts
Discussion Starter #79
Aero Gordo!

Ha! Yeah, I figure it will be an interesting experiment to see what happens, if anything, when it all heats up. With luck, this manifold will only be on the car for a few months.

I was contemplating having my Frankenmanifold Jet Hot coated, I sent an inquiry to Jet Hot and got this response:

<<<Hello Gordon

Thank you for your interest in Jet-Hot High Performance Coatings. The cost to coat your exhaust manifold in Extreme 1300 is $ $245.00 and the Extreme 2000 is $285.00 plus the cost of return shipping. Given the exhaust temps I recommend the Extreme 2000.>>>

Dang! That's a pile of money! I'll pass on that.........

:no:
 

·
Über Genius
Joined
·
8,828 Posts
Ha! Yeah, I figure it will be an interesting experiment to see what happens, if anything, when it all heats up. With luck, this manifold will only be on the car for a few months.

I was contemplating having my Frankenmanifold Jet Hot coated, I sent an inquiry to Jet Hot and got this response:

<<<Hello Gordon

Thank you for your interest in Jet-Hot High Performance Coatings. The cost to coat your exhaust manifold in Extreme 1300 is $ $245.00 and the Extreme 2000 is $285.00 plus the cost of return shipping. Given the exhaust temps I recommend the Extreme 2000.>>>

Dang! That's a pile of money! I'll pass on that.........

:no:
I wonder if there's anything special about ceramic coating?
Like, if I took some slip (liquid clay) and coated a manifold, then popped it in my kiln, fired it at 2000 degrees....

Makes one wonder.
 
61 - 80 of 93 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top