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Vendor
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2,639 Posts
Out of curiosity, is anyone else seeing that "NSFW warning" on the first photo in Gordon's post (#34) I clicked on it and was disappointed that it was a strut for the gullwing door for the red car. Not sure what the algorithm thought it was though. :oops:
SC.jpg
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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14,498 Posts
Discussion Starter #42
Cimbria. Yeah, that rings a bell. I think Charlie might have said that name, but then his memory got muddled and he said maybe it's a Bradley. The guy was handicapped in a wheelchair with a female assisting him and the show was just a few miles from Harrisburg, so I'm sure it's the same guy and cars that Opelbits found.

Notice that the red car has no door latch at all. Only the air pressure keeps the door closed.
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter #43
Out of curiosity, is anyone else seeing that "NSFW warning" on the first photo in Gordon's post (#34) I clicked on it and was disappointed that it was a strut for the gullwing door for the red car. Not sure what the algorithm thought it was though. :oops:
That's very interesting. I didn't know that our overlords even monitored our pictures.
 

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Detritus Maximus
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2,324 Posts
Except for rod length/travel considerations, I don't know the reasons why the bottoms of the actuators/struts are more towards the middle of the cars. If you assume the further the strut mount is from the hinge for ease of operation, the strut could be aligned vertically with the B pillar. No change of force direction and less load pushing the door into or away from the roof pivot. As it is, and this could be just from the angle of the phone pics, from a closed position, those two look like the leverage force is away from the pivot before getting vertical movement. Seems like it would be easier on all the mounts and pivots if the lifting force was already in line with the lifting direction.
 

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Über Genius
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Todd not responding?

Say it isn't so.
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter #46
Maybe the struts were positioned to allow for better storage of stuff behind the seats.
 

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Detritus Maximus
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It could be. It's one of those things where many ways will work, but are not optimal. It goes back to my previous posts about struts tearing mounts out because the forces applied to the mounts change direction as the struts and mounts move thru their arc. Plus the closer the mount is to the pivot (hinge), the more force is required to lift the door.
It's all levers and leverage with the mounts taking all the abuse.
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter #48
That's why I'm investigating this. I saw a lot of struts and their mounts fail at work over the years. One of the things I was told about my new car is that the owner was "dissatisfied with the quality of the work". I have no idea what aspect of the work he was unhappy with. Why wasn't the car finished? Well, Todd buying it is one reason. He sold it to a guy who took 8 years trying to pay for it and then threw in the towel is another reason. I'm just preparing myself for any mods I may need to do.
 

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That's very interesting. I didn't know that our overlords even monitored our pictures.
Right after you post, usually your images won't appear in the thread. You have to wait a bit and then refresh to see them.

This is because they scan them for nudity, presumably by AI.

Did they invent and train a whole AI just to catch the occasional boob slip or buttcrack? Has this ever been a problem in automotive forums? No, it's like, 0.01% of why they have that AI. They systematically scan all pictures for all content, facial recognition, etc, figuring out who knows who, what face goes with a username, etc, then crossreferencing that with other images on the web. It's part of them building profiles on everyone and selling them to the highest bidder. That's where they money is in having a community these days, it's not in advertising.

...

Those gull wing door mechanisms... ugh. I was excited and then.. I wasn't. Hopefully you can make it a lot nicer.
 

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Detritus Maximus
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Looking closer at the pics, I don't like the single sided ball and socket mount of the Cimbria. The leverage on that bracket is all on one side. It even looks like there is a crack in the sealer on the base. I'd like to see a clevis that spreads the load out and doesn't try to twist the bracket. The Bricklin mount looks better, plus....instead of using a bolt, they used a quick release pin that can disengage the strut allowing manual opening.

Also, for those that are unfamiliar with Bricklin, it was created by Malcolm Bricklin. His two greatest successes, in my opinion, were starting Subaru of America and Yugo. Some may say that Yugo was nothing to brag about, but selling over 160,000 cars in three years is an achievement and it provided me with newer door seals for a couple of GTs as the seal profile is identical.
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter #52
I just signed up with a Briklin forum to see if I can get some info about those pneumatic struts. At work we have motorized and air actuated, as well as the normal hydraulic forms of linear actuators or struts. The nice thing about air actuated ones is that if you set the air pressure softly enough they won't force whatever they're pushing too hard. You can set the air pressure to just barely open the doors. You CAN accomplish the same thing with electric ones, but you need to install a current limiter or overload circuit. That's a bit more involved and expensive.
 

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I just signed up with a Briklin forum to see if I can get some info about those pneumatic struts. At work we have motorized and air actuated, as well as the normal hydraulic forms of linear actuators or struts. The nice thing about air actuated ones is that if you set the air pressure softly enough they won't force whatever they're pushing too hard. You can set the air pressure to just barely open the doors. You CAN accomplish the same thing with electric ones, but you need to install a current limiter or overload circuit. That's a bit more involved and expensive.
Gordon, It's at work we HAD ........... Think Retirement
 

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Detritus Maximus
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Hey Gordon-
You still have mail sorting machines to remove?...

How loud are the actuators you have? Pneumatics always struck me as loud. What about stops and limiters so that they don't go too far either way?
 

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Administrator
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That's why I'm investigating this. I saw a lot of struts and their mounts fail at work over the years. One of the things I was told about my new car is that the owner was "dissatisfied with the quality of the work". I have no idea what aspect of the work he was unhappy with. Why wasn't the car finished? Well, Todd buying it is one reason. He sold it to a guy who took 8 years trying to pay for it and then threw in the towel is another reason. I'm just preparing myself for any mods I may need to do.
I wasn't happy with the "quality of the work" when I sat in it 20 years ago!
 

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Opeler
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3,698 Posts
I just signed up with a Briklin forum to see if I can get some info about those pneumatic struts. At work we have motorized and air actuated, as well as the normal hydraulic forms of linear actuators or struts. The nice thing about air actuated ones is that if you set the air pressure softly enough they won't force whatever they're pushing too hard. You can set the air pressure to just barely open the doors. You CAN accomplish the same thing with electric ones, but you need to install a current limiter or overload circuit. That's a bit more involved and expensive.
Air actuated struts require compressor with the tank, electrical harness and air lines.
Electrical actuators can be an option. You can choose the force and the stroke. Also they have built-in limit switch, so no need for overload circuit. On the negative side, they are bulkier than gas springs, they can be slow, require wiring and they are expensive.
My choice would be gas springs. They are available in 10 lbs increments in various lengths and strokes, they are small, simple to install and inexpensive.
But, knowing you, you will go for the glitziest, solar energy converted to steam pressure system, possibly with a light show. :geek:
 

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Detritus Maximus
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2,324 Posts
.
But, knowing you, you will go for the glitziest, solar energy converted to steam pressure system, possibly with a light show. :geek:
I can just see the light show illuminating the fog created by the steam pressure relief and the only thing you can see is Gordons foot and lower leg extending out to touch the ground!
Gordon, you're going to need special shoes for this....
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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14,498 Posts
Discussion Starter #59
Ha! Well, if electric linear actuators do have limit switches, then they would certainly then be a good choice. The car probably has gas springs in it right now. I was impressed by how well the air cylinders opened the doors on the 2 cars I observed, they both worked extremely smoothly with no clunking. Considering that they were on cars made in the 70's and were still working very well was very impressive.

Either way it will be a fun project. I wanted or need a project that will engage me heavily and present me with some challenges. Next will be to investigate how other gull wing cars support their doors. Such as, how do Deloreans do it? I'm going to research all the gull wing cars I can. There are also the new self-opening SUV rear hatches. Those hatches are about the same weight and they seem to open in a very controlled fashion. I'll want to investigate how those doors are actuated also.
 
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