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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought my latest GT to give me a nice long project to do in retirement. I've already completed most of the non-engine related projects, so now I'm ready to contemplate engine work. I'm in no hurry, I have my GTX to drive, I don't care if it takes me several years to get the car on the road. I have tasted fuel injection for the first time with the stock Opel Motronic system, so now I'm confident enough to consider going all out with a full modern engine management system and throttle bodies. I just want a daily driver level engine set up and I'll probably never go over 5000rpm, except for brief visits.

I found this not-too-long thread on the throttle body subject, so you might want to take a look at it to get a sense of the things to consider:


My engine will be a rebuilt stock 2.4 with slightly bigger valves and the stock cam. Nothing fancy.

Originally I was going to try to install a Holley Sniper sideways on a Steinmetz angled SSD manifold, but Holley says "No way.". So, then I thought about getting a single Jenvey Heritage side draft look-a-like with fuel injectos and stuff built into it, but I might not be able to get an operating system, like Megasquirt, that would be able to run just 2 injectors in an SSD configuration efficiently. So, then I found dual Jenvey throttle bodies that will bolt to side draft manifolds, but, once again, running 2 injectors on a Siamese style Steinmetz manifold that does not have a common plenum, like Holley Snipers do when used in the downdraft configuration on the oem manifold that some guys are recently doing, might cause issues. So, then I'm thinking: If I'm going to go all out with the most modern fuel injection, why limit the system with a less-than-optimal manifold and number of injectors set up with possible tuning issues? So, the fuel nuclear way to go would be to go with 4 individual throttle bodies right on the engine.

I haven't contemplated this idea before, so I need to school myself up. Heliman is the only guy I can think of who has had this sort of set up for a long time on a non-race engine, but he isn't using a CIH engine.

So, I'm ready to listen to all sorts of suggestions and types of throttle body and control systems that I can bolt to a 2.4 CIH to begin this adventure.

Your ideas?
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I've actually been working on this for the past year and have called Jenvey and some of their north American distributors and talked about things. I have also contacted other companies that make FI-converted side drafts. And I have had some introductory discussions with Mega/Microsquirt. Going with individual throttle bodies, although cool, doesn't seem to offer any significant cost advantages and comes with some set up disadvantages.

I'm not actually planning on doing the set up of whatever system I choose, my plan is to have Charles Goin get the basic set up working on his engine stand in his spacious garage. He has more basic knowledge of FI things, plus various widgets and monitoring equipment. If I did it all myself it would have to be done on the car in my tiny garage under very less than ideal circumstances. Charlie has kept himself busy up to his eyeballs with FI in recent years and he's looking for a new project to make videos of, I'm still a relative novice. As I have tried to do with previous Opel projects, I try to do things so that other people can do what I do and do it in an affordable, easy to get the parts, manner.

Since posting this thread, I have talked with Charlie and I think we are heading towards trying to get this idea working with one of Jenvey's Heritage FI-modified side draft carbs, probably a 45DCOE one. They're a proven product that has been around for years. The primary stumbling block will be whether we can make it work on the siamese-style Steinmetz manifold that does not have a common plenum. We may have to make an adapter to form a common plenum or mod the manifold itself, but we're hoping that we can make it work without doing that stuff. I'm in no hurry and have no problem going back to the drawing board. He has easy access to a machine shop to get stuff made, if needed.

There are a number of plusses to going with the Steinmetz angled manifold with a Jenvey Heritage FI-modded sidedraft and, probably, a Microsquirt operating system.:
1) I already have the set up worked out from when I was running a 45DCOE on a Steinmetz on my previous engine. It was fast and ferocious and I miss it and it had a good look and function in the engine compartment.
2) The Steinmetz was specifically designed for an Opel GT by one of the top manifold designers in the world at the time, but never went into production until Gil had a hand in having them made. So, they are an in-stock item that people can easily get.
3) The Steinmetz angles the carb to just forward of the heater box and moves the carb away from the manifold heat. It is the only carb system I have set up that wasn't subject to heat boiling the fuel out of the carb or causing vapor lock. This feature would also shift any FI wiring to the side draft away from the exhaust heat.
4) This set up eliminates hood clearance issues, decongests the engine compartment, and allows easier access to engine components. Going with a side draft or throttle body set up eliminates the sharp twists and turns of an FI modified carb downdraft set up using the oem manifold, like a Holley Sniper, and has traditionally been the smoothest flowing way to get air/fuel into a normally aspirated engine.
5) My manifold has been modded with an intake flange for my 2.4 engine and I have already made a 3/8" diameter passageway to join the 2 runners and slightly create a common-ish plenum.
6) 2.4 engines come with the 60-2 timing gear and a holder for the CPS(crank position sensor) and we have a way to reposition it if the operating system requires it. So the whole spark timing thing is already in the bag.
7) I'm using the stock cast iron 2.4 manifold, which has a built-in oxy sensor bung
8) The Jenvey Heritage has the injectors built in with a fuel rail for them all hidden inside and they have an adjustable Throttle Position sensor built in, plus there's some adjustment for idle air bleeding to assist in tuning, so that's some stuff that I won't have to deal with compared with going with throttle bodies. Yeah, I'll probably pay a little more because it's all hidden and built inside what is likely a modified side draft direct from Weber, but you pay more when you want convenience.
9) It will have a stock side draft look and will give me 2 throttles in one unit with only one cable throttle hook up and no sychronizing of multiple throttle bodies and linkage.

Here's pics of some of the stuff:

The Steinmetz manifold with a 2.4L intake flange welded on and a 45DCOE carb. Chromed, of course.:

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The Jenvey Heritage 45DCOE FI-modified carb

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Slight change of plans or back to my original plan:

RallyBob suggested this throttle body with fuel rail set up:


Add this throttle position sensor:


Then get 2 injectors and it's basically the same thing as the Jenvey Heritage for half the price and it's much simpler without all the hiding of the FI stuff that the Heritage does in order to look like a side draft carb. I don't need to mimic a Weber side draft, I just want a clean simple throttle body/fuel rail/injectors/TPS set up.

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Here's some dialogue from my Facebook group's discussion on this thread's topic:

Gordon Payton

I made my purchases. I bought a Microsquirt system for $388 and the throttle bodies that RallyBob suggested for $211 and one of the same company's $46 TPS sensors to fit it. I'll just have to select the size and brand of fuel injectors and I'll basically have what the Jenvey Heritage has for less than half the price. Any suggestions on size and type of injectors to buy?

Forrest Pilkenton
Keep us posted. I did some digging last night. Microsquirt is the way to go and seems to be not too bad to get running. Found some throttle bodies the have the TPS sensor build into them.

Justin Thell
Do a Google search for "fuel injector calculator" you put info like displacement, number of injectors, and horsepower goal and it says what size the injectors should be.

Rally Bob
Like Justin says, there are online calculators. Just be sure to put in the proper quantity of injectors!
Those throttle bodies most likely use 14 mm o-rings, and then you need to decide on injector impedance. I can’t recall if Microsquirt supports both high and low impedance injectors. Low impedance requires inline resistors typically.
A stock 2.4 only needs like 20-24 lb per hr injector flow. Pretty modest.

Gordon Payton
I see that Jenvey offers 3 sizes of injectors: 250, 350, and 730cc. I presume my stock engine would use the 250's. It might be best to wait and see what the Microsquirt system requires/suggests before pulling the trigger.


Rally Bob
Four 250 cc injectors is enough for 160 hp @ the crankshaft (based on 43.5 psi and 85% injector duty cycle).

Gordon Payton
So, are suggesting that with just 2 injectors I should maybe go with 350cc injectors?

Gordon Payton
What would be my Duty Cycle using 2 injectors on a 4cyl engine?

Rally Bob
Duty cycle is the duration the injector is open during a firing event. It depends on the injector size, the hp required, and engine load/rpm. General rule of thumb is maximum 85% duty cycle, though some newer designs can go 95%. Older injector designs can’t handle high duty cycles and can either stick wide open or closed. Either is bad.

Rally Bob
Speak to the guys at Microsquirt about whether you can even use 2 injectors on a 4-cylinder/4-cycle engine. I don’t know if tuning this way is possible or practical.
Did you buy yours from DIYAutotune? If so they are very knowledgeable about the product and good to deal with.

Gordon Payton
Yeah, I bought it from DIYAutotune. At this point of getting the system to work I'm probably going to hand off the project to Charlie, with advice from you and the other guys. I'm just going to take care of acquiring and making the mechanical stuff. I do know that 2cyl/2 injector engines can be fuel injected, can we do the same with Microsquirt and this set up is the question.

Gordon Payton
My "knowing" is based on the comment made in this Jenvey Heritage ad that says: "This is a single twin throttle body set up to suit 2 cylinder engines." https://store.jenvey.co.uk/.../heritage-twin-t-body-40...


Heritage Twin Throttle Body 40-48mm Single

STORE.JENVEY.CO.UK
Heritage Twin Throttle Body 40-48mm Single
Heritage Twin Throttle Body 40-48mm Single

Gordon Payton
In this Microsquirt ad, they say their system can run a "single cylinder all the way up to 8 cylinders with up to 2 fuel and 4 spark outputs". https://www.diyautotune.com/.../microsquirt-engine.../



MicroSquirt with 8' Harness

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MicroSquirt with 8' Harness
MicroSquirt with 8' Harness


Gordon Payton
Next, I'll have to choose a MAP sensor. I presume that I'll only need one rated for 2 atmosphere's or less, since I'm not running any boost. Then I'll need air temp, water temp, and oxy sensors. Timing will come from a 60-2 Opel 2.4 Motronic timing gear and sensor. I don't know if I should get knock sensors.
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Dual Throttle Body Common Plenum and Angle "Corrector" for Steinmetz Angled SSD Manifold

Whew, that's a whole bunch of words! So, to recap, I'm trying to repurpose a Steinmetz angled SSD manifold to work with an FI dual throttle throttle body set up with the same dimensions as a side draft carb. The jury is out as to whether making this contraption is even necessary. I may be able to simply mount the throttle bodies to the Steinmetz and it will work just. One highly respected Opel guru is concerned that the Siamesed runners, no common plenum, design of the Steinmetz manifold will make tuning difficult. So, to address this concern I made this common plenum contraption. Since the angle of the manifold/carb combo causes any air box you make on these to be VERY oddly shaped. So, while I was at it, I figured that I would design my common plenum to make the throttle bodies point straight forward towards the radiator wall. I'm actually hoping that I don't need to use this clunky contraption, I only made it to address the Siamesed runner issue, if that actually becomes an issue. I put up with endless criticism that the Steinmetz SSD manifold couldn't possibly work because one runner was 3 times longer than the other. Well, it worked great and had ferocious power and was the same, if not better, than the Midikit SSD set up with a common plenum I used previously. It's an experiment, we'll see what happens.

So, the plan is to have Charlie put my engine back together and get it running on his test stand using stock Motronic fuel injection. Once it checks out okay we'll put just the throttle bodies on the Steinmetz and try to get it all running using Microsquirt. I'm already set up for this configuration from my previous SSD set up. If that works out okay or if it's difficult to tune, we'll try the triangle common plenum and see if it makes any meaningful difference. It's perfectly okay if the triangle adapter doesn't work or I end up not using it, but I wanted to have a common plenum made just in case it's needed.

Now, my project is to utilize a side draft carb manifold and a side draft-shaped, dual throttle body, to make a fuel injection system. But this common plenum angle "corrector" could also be used by someone using a side draft on a Steinmetz manifold to add a common plenum and angle the carb more favorably.

This whole project might fail. That's okay, it's a fun project. It's very unusual to use two injectors on a 4 cylinder engine., but the 2-barrel Holley Snipers only use 2, so it must be doable. I'll do something else more traditional if it fails.

The pieces in the pics are just taped together. I'll have to hope that a friend of mine or a shop can weld them up for me.
🙂



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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I performed a half-azz test fit on my GTX car by just laying it on top of the cowling and the Motronic FI. Wow, the carb/throttle bodies sit at the perfect location and don't interfere with anything on the engine or radiator are a nice distance from the Radiator wall. The pic doesn't show it, but there is a 1.5"-2" bit of clearance between the side of the engine compartment and the carb/adapter. The whole assemblage is about 8" higher than it would be when bolted to the engine and still the clearance looks good. One corner of my triangle thing is a little close to the inner fender. I made the end pieces big and bulky to avoid warpage during welding and left open the possibility of trimming off corners for appearance and fitment issues, so we'll see. Here's before and after pics:

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After discussing things with my welder, he may decide to redesign a few things.
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
First, understand that I'm not doing this for more power. Second, I'm doing this as a quest to find a way to fuel inject our engines using affordable, off-the-shelf, parts. Third is that I don't think this triangle common plenum is even necessary and that just attaching a side draft-sized dual throttle body to the Steinmetz will work just fine. Four, a side induction system is considered to be the most efficient, least resistance, way to introduce air into a normally aspirated engine. Five, my idea is to eliminate various problems with other systems.

On the subject of #5:
Down draft systems do not flow smoothly. Carbs and throttle bodies sitting on top of red hot exhaust manifolds is a bad thing. It's a PIA and expensive to add and tune dual side drafts on a GT. It's highly debatable whether 2 side drafts or 4 individual throttle bodies add any more meaningful power, as compared to an SSD or only 2 throttle bodies, to a casually driven GT whose owner never runs the engine above 5000rpm. The Steinmetz is the only system I have tried on a GT that wasn't subject to heat soak and fuel boiling. The angled manifold shifts the carb/throttle bodies farther away and forward of the exhaust heat. The angled manifold makes working with a carb/throttle body system much easier to work on and dodges the heater box, therefore eliminating the need to get rid of the heater box and heater, as many side draft guys do. There's a bunch of empty space at the much cooler front passenger side of the engine, there's hardly any space at the much hotter tight and congested rear of the passenger side of the engine. I have used all of the carb systems, plus the Opel Motronic system, modded and unmodded, so my experiment and reasoning is based on personal use and the conclusions I've drawn from that.

On the subject of common plenums and throttle response and other imagined problems:
The stock GT manifold has hideous flow and sharp turns. The stock Jetronic and Motronic FI systems have 4 injectors at the ports, but hideous flow and sharp turns, plus an enormous common plenum with no fuel mixed with the air inside plenum or the runners. Fuel doesn't get introduced until the last second at the ports. Using a Holley Sniper or a carb DOES mix fuel and air via just 2 injectors that shoot at the virtually closed throttle plates, into the oem small volume, sharp turns, common plenum and the runners. So, 2 styles of FI systems, one with a gigantic plenum and really long runners with no fuel mixed with the air inside it, and one using the inefficient stock manifold, but filled with an air/fuel mix right from the start. How could two 180* different design FI systems, one with air/fuel filling the entire system and one with an enormous amount of just air....no fuel....inside it, possibly work the same? Because the engine just wants air and fuel mixed at the right ratio, it doesn't care if you pour the fuel directly into the ports from a bucket or the fuel gets mixed with the air through a 10 foot long pipe. What matters is that the air fuel ratio is right when the fuel gets into the combustion chamber. Siamesed runners on an SSD manifold? Aagghh! Charge robbing! It can't possibly work! Yet, it was designed by one of the top manifold designers in the world at the time, a guy who presumably understood this kind of stuff way better than we do. And guess what? It worked identically, if not better, than the common plenum, short runners, Midikit SSD system.

I'll be using 2 injectors, just like a 2 barrel Holley Sniper. Yes, my triangle-shaped common plenum and angle corrector is ugly and clunky, but have you looked at the common plenum inside a 1.9 manifold lately? It's not exactly a work of art. And the whole assemblage bends the air flow at right angles. My side induction system is still smoother flowing than a 1.9 manifold, even though it might be ugly. The suggestion to make a common plenum comes from RallyBob. He's a pretty respected guy, you might want to pick a fight with him if you all are so adamant about this idea not working. I've turned my contraption over to him for assembly and further refinement.

:)
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
The main issue that I gather from all this is simple, at least to me, albeit from a far…
Gordon likes to be different/unique/groundbreaking/special/etc, so I think he wants to do something no one else has done just so he can say that he did something that hasn’t been done before…regardless of how difficult, complicated, etc it may be. You gotta remember this is going on a car that used to be a gullwing (that he wanted so he could be different/special/unique), but he’s turned that back in to a regular looking GT; however the different/special/unique factor still needs to be met, and I think more than just the special body kit he’s using on it…therefore a different/unique/special EFI system is the next task or challenge.

All the best man!

Eric
Eric hit the nail exactly on the head. Gordo does stuff just to be unique and different. If it turns out to be a really good idea, well, that's just icing on the cake. If it turns out to be a bad idea and makes things run worse, then I'll scrap it and try another idea. What DOESN'T interest me is to do something that has already been done before. I'm coming to the end of my Opel journey and just want to make one more unique Opel creation.

What I have gleaned from the radical differences between stock downdrafts, side drafts, Opel EFI, and the modern self-learning EFI's, such as the Snipers, if that there are many ways to skin a cat to make car fur ear muffs. Injectors at the ports with a huge air-only manifold or injectors stuffed into a carb look-a-like and the stock manifold and the flow and performance is roughly the same. A lot boils down to how versatile and adaptable the computer is at managing the various factors, so that a decent air fuel ratio enters the engine and it burns efficiently. What I propose to do isn't all that radical, it's just different. It has potential benefits and potential drawbacks. It could potentially work really good or really bad. Hopefully it will work somewhere in the middle.

Here's one thing I do know: When I had an SSD on a Steinmetz on my 2.4 it was fast as schitt, started and ran as consistently as fuel injection, and made me happier and more satisfied than I've ever been with my Opel engines. I wanted nothing more. Now I have the factory fuel injection actually made for the engine and it's very reliable, but not as fast and my engine compartment is filled to the brim with FI stuff to replace the SSD which took up just 1/4 of the space. A Holley Sniper also is 1/4 or less the space and gets the job done just as good, if not better than the stock EFI. So, I'm trying to combine the best aspects of the side draft, the stock EFI, and modern systems like the Holley. And I'm trying to do it with off the shelf stuff that I already have and that other people can get easily and at a reasonable price. If just putting the dual throttle bodies on the Steinmetz works decently, then it's just the cost of the Microsquirt($388), the Steinmetz($225?), the throttle body($211), the fuel pump($100-$300), and some additional widgets($300+?). About $1500 total, maybe less. If it needs the common plenum to work right, then that would add one weekend of fabricating and the cost of someone to weld it up, plus $50 work of metal.

The big or main difference between what I'm trying to do and a Holley Sniper is that I don't have a common plenum. Remember, my original plan was just to put a Holley Sniper sideways, with a common plenum, directly onto the Steinmetz. Initially, about 9 months ago, Holley told me that it should work, but when I talked to them 3 weeks ago they told me it wouldn't, without elaborating. I think they're wrong and it would have worked. So, I decided not to fight them, and come up with my own side induction concept. Maybe my side induction concept using the repurposed SSD manifold sucks and won't work well. Or maybe it will work good. Until someone tries it we won't know.

:)
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
WOW! My new throttle body arrived just 5 days after I ordered it! I bought it from England, but it came from Czechoslovakia, and was made in association with Weber in China by FAJS. It looks good!
So, who can tell me about the function of the air passageway shown in the pics? It's the only non-throttle-related adjustment on it. How would I use such an adjustment? I do have mismatched length manifold runners. Or is it not an adjustment thing and it's really a vacuum port for a MAP sensor or vacuum advance or ??????

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Someone on Facebook said it was for idle air bypass, but a 1/8" hole and passageway doesn't seem nearly large enough to do that job. Also, the same person said that there should be a matching hole at the other end of the passageway on the other side of the throttle plates.......but there isn't. I can understand that they may have left the second hole undrilled to allow the purchaser to drill the 2nd hole if they want that function, but it would be hard to plug the access hole afterwards. The existing hole has the nut and stud screwed into it, but the end of the passageway where a second hole would need drilling doesn't have enough meat around it to plus it off after drilling into the barrel. The guy said that this picture shows the other, air cleaner side, of the throttle body and you can see that there's a second hole there:

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Once again, this pic shows the hole on the engine side of the throttle:

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Oooops! I was wrong. There are matching holes on the other side of the throttles:

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Still, they seem way too small for the idle air bypass function and must be for some sort of barrel balancing function.

How would I determine if I have unequal flow or other reasons to adjust the air balance between barrels? Is there a gizmo I need to buy or borrow to measure if there is a disparity?
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
My curent project is to figure out what I need for an Idle Air Control system. I read somewhere that the Microsquirt can't manage the PWM(pulse width modulation) by itself and that some widgets(transistors, resistors, diodes, etc.) need to be bought. They seem to favor using a 4.0L Jeep Cherokee idle air control valve($10 on Ebay) and they(DIY Auto Tune) sell a block of metal with inlets/outlets for the air and a place to fasten the valve to. I have to figure out or verify the extra widgets part. Here's a Microsquirt wiring diagram:

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And here's a PDF manual for the Microsquirt:
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Working Out the Idle Air Bypass Function on FI Modified SSD Manifolds

It turns out that another guy named Mark Kovak was also working on using a Jenvey Heritage or a dual throttle body to fuel inject using a single side draft manifold. He is trying to use a Midikit common plenum manifold and a 45mm Jenvey Heritage and I am using a Siamesed runner Steinmetz manifold with a dual throttle body. Basically the same thing, but different styles of manifold. We are talking with Jenvey and they suggested using the idle bleed passageways to provide idle air and they have a number of parts for that purpose. Below is my 1st message to Jenvey and some pics and screen shots of parts and stuff, plus a diagram of what it looks like if you use the idle bleeds and a bunch of hoses to do the job.

<<< Hi Mark. I've looked over the posts and links you've sent me and they have opened up some interesting possibilities that I wasn't aware of. It seemed to me that the idle bleed ports on your Jenvey Heritage and my throttle bodies weren't large enough to supply enough air for idle, but, apparently, after seeing the stuff that Jenvey suggested, they CAN serve that function. They have also suggested that possibly an idle air control valve might not be necessary and that the Microsquirt's Run circuitry "might" be able to keep the engine running. Yes, this is sometimes possible, but might be a little rough or inconsistant. Being that we both have an unusual single side draft/dual throttle body set up, it seems prudent that we try to get the idle air function working to run the engine at idle. But this leaves me with many questions about the size of fittings for our unique set ups and the fact that your manifold has a common plenum and mine does not. So, if you would, please send this message and the attached pictures to Simon and let's see what he says. Include this paragraph, too.

Hello Simon, my name is Gordon Payton, and I'm working with Mark to get our hybrid single side draft manifold/dual throttle body/single Jenvey Heritage FI systems working on our Opels. You and I were in communication about a year ago, but we lost contact with each other.

Both of us are trying to convert from 45DCOE single side draft set ups to FI using our SSD manifolds. We are both trying to get 2 throttles to run our 4 cylinder engines. Mark has a 45DCOE Jenvey Heritage attached to a common plenum manifold on a 2.2L engine and I have a 45mm throttle 118mm FAJS dual throttle body attached to a siamesed runner manifold on a 2.4L engine. So, we are kind of using the same dual throttle device, but on slightly different displacement engines, and one of us has a common plenum manifold and the other has a siamesed manifold. I have used both types of manifolds with Weber 45DCOE's and they work identically. To help balance things better on my siamesed runner set up, I have drilled a 10mm passageway through the flange to help balance the vacuum. See the 3 attached pictures showing my set up.

If you would prefer to deal with me seperately I could open a seperate Contact Form for just my particular set up. Let us know.

For now, Mark and I are both working on getting the idle function working. I see that you have suggested using the idle bleed passageways to introduce the air from an idle air control valve to the engine side of the throttles.
Can those small holes in our throttle bodies actually deliver enough air to run our engines at idle? Remember that we are only using 2 throttles to run 2.2/2.4 engines. Or would it be better to drill and tap larger holes for larger fittings into our Heritage/throttle bodies or into the mounting flanges of our manifolds?
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I have more questions, but I'll stop here in case you want to deal with me separately. >>>
Thank you,
Gordon Payton
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
More Fuel Injection Using an SSD Manifold Talk......
Nothing says that your idle air bypass air HAS to come from your pre-throttle air intake system, theoretically you could just have it suck in air from anywhere. You could even just have the hose not connected to anything and suck in air from wherever. But, of course, it's better if that air is filtered. Apparently, I'm not the only one who realized this and a company called Fox Injections makes a widget that uses a GM 4-wire idle air valve with a filter attached to it. If you want to run open velocity stacks(horns) with no air box and proper filter, you have no place to hook up a traditional idle air control hose to suck in pre-throttle air. One of the pics shows shows this gizmo.

Now, I could use a 40 year old 2-wire Opel idle air control valve, but why not use a cheaper, more modern, 4-6 wire idle air control valve? Well, with Microsuirt, you would need to solder in diodes/transistors/resistors to use the 4-6 wire modern valves. Another picture shows a MicroSquirt IAC Stepper Adapter that supposedly eliminates wiring/soldering in those things. I'm waiting for them to send me a wiring diagram to see how I would graft it into the Microsquirt.

So, imagine that I use the set up that employs the idle bypass inserts, hoses, and air distribution manifold and connected it directly to the Fox GM idle air control valve and filter, then wired in the MicroSquirt IAC Stepper Adapter. Voila! Idle air bypass accomplished!

Yeah, it's all pretty expensive and I could probably make many of the elements myself or cobble together barbed fittings and such at the hardware store, plus I'm perfectly capable of soldering in resistors/diodes/etc., but, gee, it sure is fun spending money and getting stuff already made to work in the mail!
🙂


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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Idle Air Control System with Remote IAC Valve Worked Out

I figured out a concept and ordered the parts to complete my unique FI system and very unique idle air control system. Refer to my previous posts to see the various widgets.
I ordered a 4-insert/hose/manifold to supply bypass air to the manifold, a remote GM 4-wire idle air control valve with filter, and an adapter to allow Microsquirt to run a 4-wire IACV. I can install the 4 air inlet inserts in a variety of places, including the throttle bodies, the Steinmetz manifold, the triangle common plenum/angle corrector, or combinations of each. I already had a previously drilled "runner unifier/mini-common plenum" in my Steinmetz, so installing the 4 inserts into that passageway is a pretty good idea. Or I could install the inserts into the triangle big common plenum/angle corrector. Or both. I have lots of options. I like options. I don't have a car or an engine in my hands yet, but I had to get all this stuff worked out so that my engine guy(Charlie) can install it and get the whole FI system working on his test stand. All options are still on the table, the pics just show the simplest, coolest way I could hook it all up.


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