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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #101 ·
From Facebook:

<<< I had to take a leap of faith drilling the holes in my air box to mount the IACV, loose fitting and measuring showed that it should just barely fit where I wanted to put it, but I had almost zero room for error. I really didn't want to screw up my air box, it was a PIA to make and shape to the curvy awkward shape of the car. I had to grind away some of the fuel rail and a bit of the casting seams between the throttle bodies to get the IACV to fit more or less comfortably. I still have to fit the tiny barbed fitting for the hose for the MAP sensor.

Where to put the barbed fitting for the MAP sensor is the question right now. This is my first experience with one of those sensors, but having that form of air flow sensing is super important to me to make this mod worthwhile. The older Opel and aftermarket systems used AFM's and MAF's and they take up space right where you don't have much space in a GT. Holy Cow, that MAP sensor uses a tiny hose! Like a 1/8" inside diameter and it simply goes straight from the manifold, or other high vacuum location, straight to the circuit board of the ECU itself. With only an 1/8" hose going to a pretty darn small circuit board, the actual sensor on the board must also be really tiny. But, before I fit it I have to check to see if it will work accurately by sensing only 2 cylinders worth of air. The big flaw of this manifold is that it doesn't have a common plenum to unify the vacuum from all 4 cylinders. It is a "siamese" configuration manifold, which is kind of rare in the car world. Each of the 2 runners only service 2 cylinders and the 2 runners are not connected together via some sort of common plenum. When the manifold had it's intended single side draft on it, a guy in Australia(GT Alex on the .com site) suggested that I drill a hole through the flange that the carb mounted to, to help unify the vacuum to the brake booster to eliminate pulsing of the brake pedal. I drilled a 10mm(3/8") passageway between the 2 runners through the side of the flange and plugged off the hole I made to do it. It worked great. I repurposed that passageway to mount the 4 IAC hoses I chose to install. I can only hope that they provide enough air. The 4 port air manifold that the hoses go to only has a 10mm(3/8") outlet and that, supposedly, is all that a 4 cylinder engine requires to supply enough air at idle to keep the engine running. So, the question remaining is: Is my passageway in the flange unifying the air flow or relative air pressure in the manifold enough to provide accurate sensing of the Mass Air Pressure(MAP)? The manifold only has one outlet for vacuum and that is for the brake booster. So, I put a series of T-fittings in the brake booster hose to operate my auto tranny's modulator and a super small hose to operate the vacuum gauge that I like to put in my cars. That set up works great for those 3 items, when I had a carb, so, can I simply add another T-fitting to the brake booster hose to operate the MAP sensor? Or should I maybe remove the passageway plug in the manifold and try to put the MAP sensor hose there for slightly more accurate sensing. I need to contact the seller of the system for his opinion. >>>
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #102 ·
For Fuel Injection Nerds:

I had a few discussions with the guy in England over the past couple of days about a couple of things. It started out with me just wanting to know about MAP sensor hose barb positioning. He refers to barbed fittings as "tails". In the conversation, he mentioned concern about where my idle air flow enters the system in relation to the injector spray pattern. This is "fuel injection nerd" stuff that most of us would never think about, especially an FI rookie like me. As it turns out, just by dumb luck, my idle air flow intersects the injector spray pattern just about perfectly. THIS sort of thing is EXACTLY why I wanted to buy my operating system from a place that would give me tech support. I'm sure that the other 2 American companies I had bought systems from wouldn't have given me this sort of advice. Not too many American guys make weird, 2 injector/4cyl, custom from the ground up, systems utilizing repurposed single side draft manifolds.

As a synopsis, I gave him 2 pictures showing the flow of idle air and another showing the angle of the injector spray pattern in regards to where the idle air enters the runners of my manifold. He approved how/where the air/fuel intersect each other. Here are those 2 pics:

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What I really wasn't expecting, as the conversation developed, was him saying that you really want most of the idle air to come from creeping by the throttle blades and NOT come mostly or entirely from the idle air circuit and passageway. I thought that, ideally, you would want all the air at idle to come in through the computer controlled idle air control system. But he said: "Best results on pretty much any car is to let the throttle blades do most of the work and just use the IAC as the fine tune for the airflow. For example - when the car is fully hot and if your target idle speed is say 850 then let the throttle give enough air for say 800 rpm and just the extra 50 via the IAC."

Well, that's a revelation. He is basically saying that 90% of the air at idle should enter via the throttle blades and only 10% via the idle air control system. Sheesh! That idle air contraption and the ducting of air takes up a fair amount of space and requires some engineering acrobatics to fit neatly in place. On my Motronic system, it involves huge hoses and outlet/inlets, plus the big valve contraption. He is implying that only a very tiny amount of air coming from the idle air circuit is required and only to supplement the much larger amount of air creeping by the throttle blades. Well, golly, how many people know that? I would have tried to start and run my car with the throttle blades dead closed, thinking that the IAC would do virtually all the work of letting air in for idle. Now, a lot of things make sense that had perplexed me before. I had always wondered how all those tiny passageways and hoses could possibly supply 2.4 liters worth of air at idle. Now it makes sense: The idle air circuit only supplies a little bit of extra air at idle to fine tune the idle speed and smoothness and most of the air comes in via creeping by the throttle blades, almost like a normal carb set up.

Here is the edited conversation. The earlier part of the conversation is at the top, the most recent is at the bottom:

Him:
<<< I assume from the pictures that the 4 x clear pipes all run to a common point on the modified manifold ? If so, then you could have probably got away with just 2 clear pipes, but no matter if you have 4. However ( if it is all common ) what you can do is use 3 pipes ( blanking the 4th pipe on the IAC Jenvey manifold ) and use the 4th union for your MAP sensor.
Since your idle pipes are forward of the injectors make sure you do not allow the idle valve to supply too much of the idle air ( otherwise air flow my bypass the injectors ? ). So set your throttle stops so they do most, if not all the idle work at hot idle, that way any extra air is only a small amount and hence hopefully no bypassing the fuel squirt. >>>

Me:
<<< The 1st attached picture is from a few months ago and the blue lines show the air flow through my original IACV and the passageway. The IACV air enters the runners SIDEWAYS through a 10mm passageway in the mounting flange located just after where the TB's bolt to the manifold. I envision that the air coming out of the passageway intersects the middle of the fuel squirt or slightly below it(see 2nd pic).
I'm leary about this. I thought that the IACV was supposed to control ALL the air coming in at idle, if possible. If I let some air creep past the throttle plates, would I have to calibrate or recalibrate the ECU to that new throttle position? How would I determine if my IAC set up is providing too much air? If it runs rough or stalls, try tweaking the throttle stop to see if it smooths things out?

Could I put the MAP hose tail in one of the FAJS barrel's air bleed holes? Would it read accurately in that location? >>>

Him:
<<< Your air flow and injector positioning looks like it will work OK - I just mentioned as on a couple of cars ( with different set ups ) I had the IAC hose tail too far forward of the throttle blades and it gave me all kinds of head aches. I think yours will be OK as is, but if you do get lumpy idle running then that is s symptom of too much air out of the fuel flow stream, in which case crack the blades a touch further open, which will in turn force the IAC a little more closed. For best results on pretty much any car is to let the throttle blades do most of the work and just use the IAC as the fine tune for the airflow. For example - when the car is fully hot and if your target idle speed is say 850 then let the throttle give enough air for say 800 rpm and just the extra 50 via the IAC. This way stops the IAC shutting down too far when on a long throttle closed decel - because it will not necessarily know you are on a decel and will be trying to shut the IAC to bring the RPM down. Modern cars have a vehicle speed sensor and they do not do anything with the IAC when the road speed is above say 5mph - but having a classic car you do not have a vehicle speed sensor.

I think the FAJS air bleed maybe too close to the throttle blades, meaning you may see throttle edge vacuum rather than proper manifold vacuum. You could put the MAP hosetail on one of the idle hose tails ( if you do not use them all ) or probably just as good would be to drill your 10mm passage plug and put the hose tail in there. >>>
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #103 ·
Air/Fuel Intake Complete
My air/fuel intake assemblage is now basically complete and I can install it. I wasn't supplied with enough of the black polyurethane air hose to feed my excessive number of air inlets and finding the stuff was hard to do. No car places had it, and it's called "air line hose", so I had to order it from McMaster-Carr. There were countless ways to route the hoses and position inlets and the AICV and I was struggling to come up with a decent minimal configuration that wouldn't rub against things and other considerations. I got some all-steel lock nuts to hold the throttle bodies to the manifold. Those bolts tend to unscrew and regular nylon lock nuts can't handle engine heat and just lock washers or double-nutting the bolts doesn't get the job done. I repurposed the plugged off hole I had drilled in my manifold, to create a mini-common plenum, to fit a 1/8" hose barb for the MAP sensor. The fully assembled contraption shows the cable throttle adapter in place also.

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #104 ·
Fixing my corroded plates
After I had removed my heater box, I covered the area with thin house siding "flashing". I then got some thick aluminum plate metal, had it chromed, then put those on top of the flashing. For whatever reason, the aluminum started to pit and corrode under the chrome in the corners and it was all starting to look nasty. I had bought a new sheet of mirror finish stainless steel to make a new cover for my air box on my FI system, so I used some of that to make new plates to cover the old corroded plates. I can just stick them to the old plates with emblem tape. That area was where I bundled up the excess wire harness for my old Motronic FI system, so it's degradation wasn't all that noticable. But the new FI system has much less excess wiring and I'll be mounting the ECU in that area. It will all still be mostly covered up with wiring and stuff, but I needed to do something to fix up it's overall look. I made paper templates of the 3 plates and transferred their shapes to the SS. Man, that stainless steel is hard and nasty to work with. I cut it out with an angle grinder cut off wheel and the stuff throws a huge burr when you cut it, requiring lots for sanding/filing/grinding down. I used my bench top belt sander with metal grade paper to make somewhat short work of that. I'm now covered with grit and metal particles, so I called it a day. I'll do final fastening and mounting of things in that area tomorrow.


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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #105 ·
For the archives:
Bosch CPS Plug Wire Identification

Wires 1+2 are the signal wires, number 3 is a shielding ground.

This was a tough thing to figure out and I had to call Charlie to get the Motronic schematic out to tell which wires were which. If you are using the Motronic system's 60-2 timing wheel, the wires in the CPS's plug are as above and in the pics. The numbers on mine were only inside the plug, not the big numbers on the outside of the plug, and they were almost impossible to see.

The Classic Fuel Injection set up I bought came with 2 open wires for the CPS and a 2-prong or a 3-prong plug to put them in. The seller had this to say:

<<< With the Bosch CPS, 2 of the wires are signal and the 3rd appears just to be a ground for screening the signal. Assuming that is what the sensor is, we only need to use the 2 signal wires, connected to the Brown and White of the new harness.
If you measure the Ohms resistance across the wires the signal pair will likely read around 600 to 800 ohms and the third wire will probably not be connected to either of the other two.
Assuming that is the case, then the pair will be connected to my Brown and White, but I do not know which way around, but when you have it running or at least cranking we can figure that out using the Mtune PC scope tool to determine 9, so maybe make the connections temporary until we have it figured out. >>>


So, I ohmed the 2 wires and got a reading of 550 ohms, but then when I waved a piece of steel by the sensor a very odd thing happened: The ohms dropped to .550 ohms(POINT 550), but I had to do it TWICE to make the change happen, just once wouldn't do it, and the reading would stay at 550 or .550 until I waved the metal by the sensor twice again. I repeated this several times and each time it required that I wave the piece of metal by the sensor twice to make the ohm's change. That's weird. I've worked with proximity switches for 30 years and never saw that happen. Apparently there's a "flip-flop" function inside, kind of like the way our hi/lo beam relays work, with something holding the previous reading until the sensor sensed a piece of metal twice, then it would change to the other state.

Now, this is just the results of a quick test with an ohm meter and alligator clips and I didn't reverse polarity to see if the behavior changed and who knows if the low amps or voltage of my meter made the sensor behave the way it's supposed to, if it got the 5V or 12V from the computer it's supposed to get. I won't really know anything for sure until I've got it all in the car and use the software to set up the CPS function.

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #106 ·
Hiding the Ugly Stuff
One of the first things that judges at car shows will notice is sloppy, careless, engine compartment wiring. It's a big indicator of your attention to detail. You can have a giant engine and pretty paint, but if your engine compartment looks like an explosion at a spaghetti factory, then you probably did sloppy work in other areas, too.
So, the new FI system I'm installing came with 5-6 gadgets that would be just plain ugly if screwed to various places in the engine compartment. Black gizmos with bunches of wires going to them. UGLY! The wiring harness is kind of short, overall, and I can't just decide to put many of them inside the car behind the dash. And they are all wired into the harness relatively close together, so that means they'll all have to be mounted fairly close together. Several items have heat sinks or need to have free flowing air around them to stay cool.
On my Moronic(Ha!) system, I bunched them together in the vicinity of the chromy cover plates in the rear passenger side of the engine compartment. I didn't like that, it looked like crap, but it was the logical place to put the stuff, based on how the wiring harness and other things were configured. This time around I'm going to try to mount the stuff on the driver's side, where 90% of the rest of the car's wiring is. I don't know if I'll be able to pull this off, the harness is pretty short and compact, but we'll see how it goes.
The best place is the ledge above the oem fuse box, a common place where folks put stuff, like coil packs, relays, junction blocks, and fuse blocks. Right now, I have a chromed MSD box there. It is a functionless dummy set up that isn't plugged into anything. It basically covers up the degrading, corroding, chromed aluminum plate I have there. I'm redoing those plates, so I won't really need to have that box there anymore. It actually works and is basically brand new, but it's old school and you don't need a huge box to amplify your ignition spark anymore, new systems use gizmos the size of a walnut to do the same job. But I stripped the box, had it chromed, and put it back together and it looks real good. It IS ignition related, so why not strip the guts out of it and mount some of the relays, ignition amplifier, IAC controller, etc. inside it or just use it as a loose cover over wherever I put that stuff?
I had also bought an old school cylindrical, ribbed, cast aluminum, cover for a coil, probably for a '57 Chevy or something. It was too cool looking not to buy, but I couldn't really find a use or a place for it and it's been sitting on my "Shelf of Failed Mods" for several years. That's another candidate I could use to hide the ugly stuff. Today I have to try to lay out the wiring harness on the engine to see where I can mount stuff.


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Can Opeler
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Could you put all the wiring in front of the radiator bulkhead and cover it with a cover like my brass one (of course yours would be chrome)? It would make the engine bay look a lot less busy.
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #108 ·
Hmmmm........that's actually a pretty good idea! It never occured to me to do that, but it makes a lot of sense. Most of the sensors are at the front of the engine and it's cooler up front for the electronics. I will give that idea the FIRST layout test fit and see if it works!

:love:
 

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Can Opeler
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Hmmmm........that's actually a pretty good idea! It never occured to me to do that, but it makes a lot of sense. Most of the sensors are at the front of the engine and it's cooler up front for the electronics. I will give that idea the FIRST layout test fit and see if it works!

:love:
Sweet! That’s where I was planning on putting mine. I have plenty of room now that I threw out the AC hoses and such.
 
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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #110 ·
I laid out the wiring harness and running along the front of the radiator area seems to not have any complications and will make for a tidier engine compartment, so I'm following that route.

So, before I do that I figured that it would be best to get all the hoses, fuel line, and ignition parts in place first, then run the wires. It turns out that the new system is going to radically change the driver's side of the engine area as much as it has to the passenger side. The new system has the spark plug wires come directly from a wasted spark, HEI, coil pack that get's it's instructions to fire sparks directly from the computer. That meant, no need for a distributor cap and it's plug wire terminals and no need for the oem-style round coil. I removed my fake, functionless MSD box, which was only there to hide some corrosion and to add some bling, also.

Before:


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Coil and dizzy cap removed:

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Plug wires, router, and MSD box removed. Test positioning of coil pack above fuse box area:

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Hmmm.......messy......don't like it. Test fit of the coil pack where the old coil used to be. That looks better to me.

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But then I ran across a problem. Plug wires should have been a pretty simple part of this job, but I noticed 4mm posts sticking up inside the coil pack terminal holes.:

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And there's no metal around the outside circumference of each plug hole for the wires to make electrical contact with. I'd never seen such a thing before. Long story short, I went to got parts stores and repair shops and most had never seen something like that or they had only seen it on Fords or Toyotas. I need to make new custom length spark plug wires, so I went to the MSD website to look at their Universal Super Conductor kits and didn't see any terminals small enough to grab those posts. I HAVE seem MSD distributors and coils with small metal post sticking up, but I never saw any coils with small metal posts recessed 3/4" down inside plug wire sockets. Charlie then found some cars that used this type of coil pack and skinny posts inside sockets. Specifically, one of the modern Opels he had shipped over has the same coil with the skinny posts inside of sockets. So, I thought: Surely, MSD, the biggest seller of custom spark plug wire kits, would have small terminals like that to sell with their kits. So I searched around their site and I think I found them, they are used on GM LS1 engines:

Charlie's pics:
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The giveaway is that there is a small springy metal ring around the tip that keeps the opening tight around the post when you push it on. Here's the MSD part:


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So, I bought some of them hoping they will fit and then I'll make new custom length plug wires.

Here's a quick pic from the other side of the engine showing the hose from the fuel pump going along the front of the engine to the fuel rail, instead of behind the engine like I used to have it:

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And, I needed something to cover up the top of the now useless, capless, distributor. For now, I found a silver paint spray can cap that I can just barely squeeze onto the housing. I'll need to hold it on with a hose clamp for now.

I've seen guys put some sort of cap on their dizzies when they switch to HEI ignition systems, does anyone know where I can find a cap to fit our VW-style dizzies?
 

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If you can track down the distributor cap cover from a compufire DIS-IX maybe it would work? Here’s a link to the assembly, someone might sell just the cap.

 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #113 ·
A guy on Facebook is going to 3D print me a cap for my dizzy. Here's one he made for a VW:

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Here's the prototype design for mine:

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Today I made bracket to mount my HEI coil to the oem coil mounting location. I'm really liking the lower height of possibilities of stuff around the engine. The huge height of the previous Opel FI manifold pissed me off.

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Make sure he gets the Blitz emblem correct!

In that pic it’s backwards.
 
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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #116 ·
HEI Spark Plug Terminals Arrived

Today I'll be making custom length spark plug wires with the new HEI-style terminals I just received. These types of terminals are new to me and are made to grab 4mm posts on your distributor cap, coil, etc. This type is used on GM LS1 engines and various high performance High Energy Ignition(HEI) systems. I had bought an MSD Super Conductor spark plug wire kit for an 8 cylinder car a few years ago, so I had 4 new unused wires and it made sense to use those to make new wires. I had to buy the terminals at $17 for a pair and bought 3 pairs. My new FI system sends the signal to fire the spark straight from the computer, so it doesn't need the 5th wire going from the dizzy to the coil. The coil is an HEI "coil pack" style and had 4mm posts inside for the wires to grab, that's why I have to make new wires, plus the coil pack is in a slightly different position and shape and I want my plug wires to look and flow really nice 'cuz it's a car show car. Sloppy wiring is a big no-no at car shows. I'm told by RallyBob that his racer friends don't like these MSD 8.5mm(fat) wires because they break down after a year or so. I was perfectly happy with them these past 5 years or so, but I did swap them out for regular wires about a year ago while trying to fix an ignition problem. I can't say that I noticed a difference, but now that he said that I'm going to be constantly worried about them. He gave me a link to a company that makes very nice custom length wires for about $80(MSD's cost $125-$250 for a kit to make your own), but I needed to know the length of each wire, so I have to go through the process of making the new wires to determine the lengths. The wires I make will work just fine to get my new FI system running and I can decide to get different ones at a later time.

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #117 ·
Both sides of engine done

I made my new HEI spark plug wires today and in previous days hooked up all the hoses, fuel line, sensors, and throttle cable on the passenger side. All that really remains to do is attachment of wires for main power, turn on power, ground, and maybe one other........AND mounting the ECU, relays, and 3-4 various gadgets on the main wiring harness, hopefully all on a mounting plate somewhere in front of the radiator. That last bit will take a few days, right now all that stuff is piled up in front of the radiator.


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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Discussion Starter · #118 ·
Running the Wiring and Mounting the Gadgets

Today I started working on the layout of the new FI wiring harness and quickly decided that putting the bulk of the wiring harness and the gadgets in front of the radiator would be a PIA on my car. No good places left to bolt anything to. And my useless, chromed, MSD box was waving a flag and flashing it's headlights at me, so I removed it, gutted it's innards, did some mods, and found that I could fit the ECU and the heavily wired relays inside of it. I basically had 5 gadgets that needed to be fastened somewhere: The ECU, the Idle Air Controller, the Ignition Amplifier and heat sink, and 2 relays. I mounted the 2 relays directly to the MSD cover and I will screw the ECU to the degraded chromed cover plate I have over the oem fuse box area. The plug outlet on the MSD cover was just about the same size as the ECU's harness plug. I will elevate the MSD cover on 1/2"-1" stand-offs because the ECU is too tall and this will be a good thing because it will allow ventilation of any heat build up. I'm working with how the harness was configured by the Classic Fual Injection guy and want to avoid having to do any cutting, jumping, and splicing. The wire bundle had the Idle Air Controller wired just 6" away from the relays and I could have mounted it inside the MSD box, but electrical interference could have occured. Luckily, there was a blank spot on the fender to screw it. That left just one gadget to find a place for: The Ignition Amplifier sitting on a block of aluminum as a heat sink. The wiring harness and my engine compartment had a favorable location on the brake booster support brace, so it will likely go there. If things don't work out, I'll screw it near there to the fender. Nothing is bolted in place in the pics, just loose fitted. Tomorrow I'll try to route the main harness wire bundle somewhere along the radiator wall and see if all the wiring reaches the places they have to go. If all goes well, I have to calibrate and configure a couple of things with a laptop and I'm ready to turn the key. :)

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Sorry to be a PIA but putting the ECU inside another housing without active cooling will increase its operating temperature, which is probably not a good idea.
 

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Can Opeler
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Sorry to be a PIA but putting the ECU inside another housing without active cooling will increase its operating temperature, which is probably not a good idea.
On the other hand the MSD box could act as an heat sink if he mounts it firmly and considered using some thermal paste like they use for CPUs
 
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