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Discussion Starter #1
I know some past threads have touched on this connection between the Body Unit Number stamped into the sheet metal near the radiator and the VIN numbers on our GTs but I could not find one that fit my interest in this so here goes.
In a recent flyer from OGTS Gil made mention of a early 69 GT for sale with a low Body Unit Number and how it should be preserved. I think it had a number under 1500. Not sure what the Vin was or where it fit in the production line. I think anything below U2000 is supposed to be very early production. I am not sure how many in the USA show below U1000. I was under the impression that the Vin for a Body Unit Number in the U1000 range should be lower than say a BUN of U2000.
Here is what throws a monkey wrench into that belief. Eric Schmidt here in Springfield has a number of Gts he has picked up over the years. One of them has always held my interest. It is an early 1.1L GT with flat back panel that has been set up with AC at one time. If that were not interesting enough I checked the Cowl Vin plate# and Body Unit Number and something does not add up. Body Unit Number on this GT is U790BB which is lower than I have seen posted. The VIN would seem to indicate a later build date. VIN# is 931790498 and the data plate says Made in January
One possible answer I have heard was some of the early body's were held back for quality issues and then fed back into the production stream. Eric also has another 69 1.1L with BUN of U1940 and VIN of 931823078. would be interesting to know the circumstances of the GT with BUN of U790.
 

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Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer
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Not sure the intricacies of the UU numbers, but that said. The lower number later build could be due to the 1.1L, if it was a fit-up car. They may have been fitting it for the 1.1L off the production line and it wasnt "done" until they put interior and such into it..

Thats just conjecture on my part. I know 1.1L are rare in any case, and if this was a french built one even rarer. Did it have a split bumper..?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
The GT with BUN of U790BB has had a hit to the rear end and has sat in a corner of the Barn Eric stores them in for at least 20 years. It also in the past has had at least one repaint. The PO changed color to white from what I think was a gold. Data plate shows a DD751 paint code. It does not at this time have a split front bumper.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
On the site Gary shows the lowest Body Unit Number listed is U1080 and that VIN# starts with 165. The VIN#s that are shown in the range of Eric's GT would correspond to a January 69 build date. Once again something seems out of sequence.
 

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I know some past threads have touched on this connection between the Body Unit Number stamped into the sheet metal near the radiator and the VIN numbers on our GTs but I could not find one that fit my interest in this so here goes.
In a recent flyer from OGTS Gil made mention of a early 69 GT for sale with a low Body Unit Number and how it should be preserved. I think it had a number under 1500. Not sure what the Vin was or where it fit in the production line. I think anything below U2000 is supposed to be very early production. I am not sure how many in the USA show below U1000. I was under the impression that the Vin for a Body Unit Number in the U1000 range should be lower than say a BUN of U2000.
Here is what throws a monkey wrench into that belief. Eric Schmidt here in Springfield has a number of Gts he has picked up over the years. One of them has always held my interest. It is an early 1.1L GT with flat back panel that has been set up with AC at one time. If that were not interesting enough I checked the Cowl Vin plate# and Body Unit Number and something does not add up. Body Unit Number on this GT is U790BB which is lower than I have seen posted. The VIN would seem to indicate a later build date. VIN# is 931790498 and the data plate says Made in January
One possible answer I have heard was some of the early body's were held back for quality issues and then fed back into the production stream. Eric also has another 69 1.1L with BUN of U1940 and VIN of 931823078. would be interesting to know the circumstances of the GT with BUN of U790.
John, I have a 69 with the body stamping of U1477. Its VIN is 94-168xxxx. Since B&L finished over 1800 GT bodies in calender 1968, mine should have been one of them. However, when I contacted Opel about the build date, I was told that it was built in March of 1969. Apparently due to the quality issues which you mentioned, some 400 bodies were held back for repairs. I have spent considerable time on the German GT register site which contains data for about 350 cars. However, most of the entries are incomplete, meaning that most do not list the BUN. But, even so, the lowest body number shown is U1080, which has a VIN of 94-1651241. VIN 94-1648389 has a BUN listed as 1718. This car was registered on January 16, 1969. I am puzzled by the "BB" of the BUN on your friend's car. I have never seen a reference to any letters, except for the "U", on these stampings. Cars with VINs in the vicinity of your friend's car's VIN were registered about June 1969, so the body may have been welded early, but the car probably wasn't finished until the second quarter of 1969. Maybe the "BB" has something to do with that. Across the end of the data plate on my 1969, it says, "Made in West Germany." The rivet which holds the plate on partially obscures the "G" of Germany. Bill
 

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The GT with BUN of U790BB has had a hit to the rear end and has sat in a corner of the Barn Eric stores them in for at least 20 years. It also in the past has had at least one repaint. The PO changed color to white from what I think was a gold. Data plate shows a DD751 paint code. It does not at this time have a split front bumper.
John, If you study that list on OpelGT.org a bit, you will find that the VIN 94-1764238 has a one-piece bumper. There is no mention of the split bumper for VINs higher than that. So, your friend's car probably came with the one-piece bumper. Bill
 

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First:
„U“ stand for body dedicated for the US market. In oposite to the european GT, this bodys has to have a cutout in the quarter panel for the sidemrkers.

Second:
Belief it or not charles, but ALL GT-bodys inclusive 12 prototypes were made in France and „usually“ also painted end equipped at the French based factory B&L. The assembling of drivetrain and axels for ALL GT happend in the german factory in Bochum.
But there is one big exeption. Doe to high costumer demand, exact 24 043 blank bodys came as „body in white“ to the german faktory in Bochum. This bodys were painted and completely assembeled in Bochum. This happend in early 69 antil the end of 1970.

So you can say the were parallel two production lines. The body Nr for both lines are independetly count and in a different way marked.
What it makes a little bit complicated ist he fact that the mark for the „second“ line (i.e. in Bochum painted and completely assembled cars) differs between 69 and 70.

In 69 it is a „BB“ after/under the body Nr. and in 1970 it is a „20“ as a prefix before the body Nr.

1969 GT from "Bochum" production line



1970 GT from "B&L" production line


The „normal“ in France painted and equipped GT have since 1970 corresponding a „10“ as a prefix.
In 1969 there isn`t a mark on these bodys.

In summary:
Normal line (B&L): 69 - no mark, 70-73 - „10“ as prefix.
Second line (Bochum): 69 – „BB“, 70 – „20“ as prefix.

There are also some other little differences between the GT´s from both produktion lines, but this is another story...
 

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Opel Tinkerer and Rescuer
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First:
„U“ stand for body dedicated for the US market. In oposite to the european GT, this bodys has to have a cutout in the quarter panel for the sidemrkers.

Second:
Belief it or not charles, but ALL GT-bodys inclusive 12 prototypes were made in France and „usually“ also painted end equipped at the French based factory B&L. The assembling of drivetrain and axels for ALL GT happend in the german factory in Bochum.
But there is one big exeption. Doe to high costumer demand, exact 24 043 blank bodys came as „body in white“ to the german faktory in Bochum. This bodys were painted and completely assembeled in Bochum. This happend in early 69 antil the end of 1970.

So you can say the were parallel two production lines. The body Nr for both lines are independetly count and in a different way marked.
What it makes a little bit complicated ist he fact that the mark for the „second“ line (i.e. in Bochum painted and completely assembled cars) differs between 69 and 70.

The „normal“ in France painted and equipped GT have since 1970 corresponding a „10“ as a prefix.
In 1969 there isn`t a mark on these bodys.

In summary:
Normal line (B&L): 69 - no mark, 70-73 - „10“ as prefix.
Second line (Bochum): 69 – „BB“, 70 – „20“ as prefix.

There are also some other little differences between the GT´s from both production lines, but this is another story...
Nice to have some clarity.. so B&L assembled the complete cars (Minus drivetrain), I always thought they did just the raw shells and shipped them to get painted and assembled along with the drivetrain install.

I had a copy of a document dated late 1968, and it insinuated, that B&L had a hand build line, and built complete cars and the numbers on the document were the ones built there. If memory serves I got it from the Thevenins of Opel Parts and Service while doing the OANA newsletter. It may simply have been the year to date total of what they built in general.

Problem is I lost the copy of that document years ago, my german/french sucks and the translation was in broken german. I may have to go dig into all my old paperwork again to see if I can find it. I have looked before with no luck.

The real question is why did they paint and assemble without axles and then send to Bochum for that part. Seems it would give a lot of time for scratching and damaging the car. Did they complete the interiors too before sending to Bochum ?
 

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First:
„U“ stand for body dedicated for the US market. In oposite to the european GT, this bodys has to have a cutout in the quarter panel for the sidemrkers.

Second:
Belief it or not charles, but ALL GT-bodys inclusive 12 prototypes were made in France and „usually“ also painted end equipped at the French based factory B&L. The assembling of drivetrain and axels for ALL GT happend in the german factory in Bochum.
But there is one big exeption. Doe to high costumer demand, exact 24 043 blank bodys came as „body in white“ to the german faktory in Bochum. This bodys were painted and completely assembeled in Bochum. This happend in early 69 antil the end of 1970.

So you can say the were parallel two production lines. The body Nr for both lines are independetly count and in a different way marked.
What it makes a little bit complicated ist he fact that the mark for the „second“ line (i.e. in Bochum painted and completely assembled cars) differs between 69 and 70.

In 69 it is a „BB“ after/under the body Nr. and in 1970 it is a „20“ as a prefix before the body Nr.

1969 GT from "Bochum" production line



1970 GT from "B&L" production line


The „normal“ in France painted and equipped GT have since 1970 corresponding a „10“ as a prefix.
In 1969 there isn`t a mark on these bodys.

In summary:
Normal line (B&L): 69 - no mark, 70-73 - „10“ as prefix.
Second line (Bochum): 69 – „BB“, 70 – „20“ as prefix.

There are also some other little differences between the GT´s from both produktion lines, but this is another story...

Thank you Jose. You have explained so much! Bill
 

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First:
„U“ stand for body dedicated for the US market. In oposite to the european GT, this bodys has to have a cutout in the quarter panel for the sidemrkers.

Second:
Belief it or not charles, but ALL GT-bodys inclusive 12 prototypes were made in France and „usually“ also painted end equipped at the French based factory B&L. The assembling of drivetrain and axels for ALL GT happend in the german factory in Bochum.
But there is one big exeption. Doe to high costumer demand, exact 24 043 blank bodys came as „body in white“ to the german faktory in Bochum. This bodys were painted and completely assembeled in Bochum. This happend in early 69 antil the end of 1970.

So you can say the were parallel two production lines. The body Nr for both lines are independetly count and in a different way marked.
What it makes a little bit complicated ist he fact that the mark for the „second“ line (i.e. in Bochum painted and completely assembled cars) differs between 69 and 70.

In 69 it is a „BB“ after/under the body Nr. and in 1970 it is a „20“ as a prefix before the body Nr.

1969 GT from "Bochum" production line



1970 GT from "B&L" production line


The „normal“ in France painted and equipped GT have since 1970 corresponding a „10“ as a prefix.
In 1969 there isn`t a mark on these bodys.

In summary:
Normal line (B&L): 69 - no mark, 70-73 - „10“ as prefix.
Second line (Bochum): 69 – „BB“, 70 – „20“ as prefix.

There are also some other little differences between the GT´s from both produktion lines, but this is another story...
Thank you for clarifying that José.
 

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Nice to have some clarity.. so B&L assembled the complete cars (Minus drivetrain), I always thought they did just the raw shells and shipped them to get painted and assembled along with the drivetrain install.

I had a copy of a document dated late 1968, and it insinuated, that B&L had a hand build line, and built complete cars and the numbers on the document were the ones built there. If memory serves I got it from the Thevenins of Opel Parts and Service while doing the OANA newsletter. It may simply have been the year to date total of what they built in general.

Problem is I lost the copy of that document years ago, my german/french sucks and the translation was in broken german. I may have to go dig into all my old paperwork again to see if I can find it. I have looked before with no luck.

The real question is why did they paint and assemble without axles and then send to Bochum for that part. Seems it would give a lot of time for scratching and damaging the car. Did they complete the interiors too before sending to Bochum ?
First, yes, B&L completed the interiors before shipping the units to Bochum. I knew from my reading of the Projekt 1484 book about the shipping of some of the "raw" bodies directly from Chausson to Bochum, bypassing B&L. Opel produced a total of 103,463 GTs. However, B&L only ever "saw" 79,420 of them. B&L was building cars for other companies while they built the GTs. In fact, the GTs amounted to only a relatively small part of their production. The high percentage was 18.14% in 1970 down to 8.46% in 1973. Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Jose
As others have said, thank you for your post. You have provided us with a better understanding of the birth of our GT's. I would like to see if you could expand on that.
Do you know if the body's were stamped in numerical order as produced. Also would there have been two GT's stamped with the same number. For instance were the body's produced for Bochum a different Numeric Line. In the instance of my friends GT was it the 790th body built in total or just the 790th for the Bochum line.
My 72 GT has the BUN of U1058302 so I am going to guess it was the 58,302 Body built in total. That would put it in the middle of the production run.
 

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@Bill: Thank you Bill. Your post is axaktley what i would like to write now.


I have to correct a typo in my post (#8)
1970 GT from "B&L"production line. Instead of „B&L“ it has to bee Bochum


@John: All body's were stamped in numerical order as produced but definitively dont leave the german factory as completed cars in that order. During the process of production this sequence missmatch.

Bodys for both were idependent count. This means it exist „790 BB“ (Bochum line) and „790“ from the regular (B&L) line. Your 72 GT is the 58 302 body from the regular (B&L) line. As Bill mentioned in his post from a total of 79 tsd from that line. I hope this helps.

I have never seen ac on a 1.1. GT. Do you remember from memory if i is a ARA ore GM unit?
 

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There was a 1966 Kadett 1.1L with AC. It might also have had an auto transmission.
While I can't rule out the possibility that some one grafted an A/C unit onto a 1966 1.1 liter Kadett, I am 99.999999% sure that it didn't come from the factory that way. You see, I bought a new 1966 Kadett four-door Deluxe off of the showroom floor in June of 1966. I still have the original owner's manual which makes no mention of A/C. Further, the Opel parts manual first shows A/C parts starting with the 1971 Kadetts, indicating that A/C was available from the factory starting with the 1971 model year. The same applies to the automatic transmission. It did not exist for the 1.1 liter engine in 1966. Again, the parts book first shows an automatic becoming available for the 1969 model year, apparently for the 1.1 liter cars as well as the 1.9s, as the parts book lists a torque converter for the 1.1 liter engine. Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Jose
Once again thank you for your post. I will pass this info along to my friend Eric when I get a chance. He is about 80 and does not use computers as far as I know. Eric has about 10 complete GT's in one barn and two more mostly complete ones in another shed. I go out sometimes with him when he works on them. The 1.1L that I mentioned with AC is one that does not at this time run. Not sure of the make of AC, I need to get some pictures. This GT has all the interior parts for the AC but nothing in the Engine bay. I wondered if maybe someone had just swapped out the interior. It just happened I had a chance to take Gil Wesson of OGTS out to look at the GT during the Route 66 Mother Road festival car show about 6 years ago. He also had not seen a 1.1L with AC. He looked the car over and said the proper holes in the body were there for AC. Eric said it did not have anything for AC under the Hood when he bought it. One of those mystery things.
 

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Opeler
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Crispy my 69 split bumper Gt has no UU or BB stamped on the body or the headlight bucket?
Steve
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Steve
If I read the post from Jose correctly, it would seem your GT Crispy came off the B&L line and may have been meant for something other than the US market. He states the GT's from B&L in 69 had no marks other than the number. He also says the U was a designator for the US Market and had cut outs for the side marker lights. Any chance crispy was sold outside the US?
 
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