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John not sure of Crispy's early history but I have a old magazine (November 1969 Poupular Imported Cars) with a 1969 split bumper GT green with buckskin interior on the front cover.....maby it is crispy? how many green split bumper built???
Steve
Steve
I mean,in this colour most of the first promotion GT`s for showrooms by the US-dealer
going at first over the pond.
That is also i wrote in your Aero thread.I would rebuild this GT original:yup:
But now its to late:ugh:

Norbert:veryhappy
 

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I was just rereading Projekt 1484, beginning at the lower half of page 63. If I read this correctly, by March B&L had reached their capacity of 80 GTs per day, so at that time some GT bodies began to be shipped directly from Chausson to Bochum to be finished with parts kits sent from B&L. If I have misinterpreted this, someone who reads German more fluently than I do please correct me. If I am right here, there can be no "Bochum finished" GTs produced before March 1969, regardless of the body stampings. Bill
 

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Hello Steve,
i really dont want to disappiont you but i dont think that the GT from the cover picture is identical with your GT. I estimate the build date from your GT is around middle of jan 69. The are two other much more older US spec GT in british green.
94 16 7235 & 94 16 7679 both from the end of dec 68.
But even this cars have probably nothing to doe with the cover picture.

The most important reason for me are the missing trim rings. This is tipically for the the very first press pictures. Even in germany almost every GT missed during september and october 68 the trim rings.

I know this issue from „Popular imported cars“ but i dont find my copy currentley. Is it the November issue from 68 ore 69? If it is the 68 issue it is impossible to be your GT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Bill
Something that would seem to contradict your reading of project 1484 is the aluminum data plate on the cowl of Eric Schmidts 69 GT with the BUN of U790BB. In fact I want to go back and look at it again but I am sure where the data plate on Steve's Crispy says "Made in West Germany", the one on Eric's GT says "Made in January". I hope to get with Eric in the next few days to take some photos.
 

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Bill
Something that would seem to contradict your reading of project 1484 is the aluminum data plate on the cowl of Eric Schmidts 69 GT with the BUN of U790BB. In fact I want to go back and look at it again but I am sure where the data plate on Steve's Crispy says "Made in West Germany", the one on Eric's GT says "Made in January". I hope to get with Eric in the next few days to take some photos.
I have three GT bodies right now and they all say "Made in West Germany." Bill
 

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Jose and I have been trading e-mails for a couple of days. He told me that there is a new book about the GT coming out in mid July. It is by Stefan Mueller, who was one of the authors of the original Projekt 1484 book. In the brochure which describes the book, Jose is thanked as one of the sources of information for the book. Gil Wesson is also mentioned. I will order a copy of the book when it becomes available.

It is my understanding that Jose has been researching these body stamping numbers for a long time and probably knows more about them than anyone else. He told me that he had seen the very first production GT and its stamping was U1001, not U0001 as we might expect. He also saw, and has pictures of, a pre-production GT. Jose, I believe that everyone on OpelGT.com would appreciate it if you posted those pictures. He also mentioned another discrepancy which has been nagging at me for some time. On page 183 of Projekt 1484, it says that B&L produced a total of 1,866 finished GT bodies during 1968, but exported only 1453 of them. However, and here is where the discrepancy comes in, on page 63, it says that French railroad records showed that they transported 2176 car bodies, 1408 in December alone, from the rail yard at Creil, where B&L is located, to Bochum during 1968. How do we account for this difference of 723 car bodies? As Jose said, you find the answer to one question and it opens up a couple more questions. Bill
 

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The preproduction GT with the body nr. 1001 (without „U“ because it es a euro spec) i mention in a mail to Bill, is part of the „Opel Classic Collection“ at the plant in Rüsselsheim.
Everyone who visit this collection can view this GT.
It is the red one. I think i have already seen pics here taken and posted from Gary.
This GT was original gold painted and the VIN reads 93 15 63794.










The other one is much older, 94 15 58200. It is in private hand and anfortunately i dont have the premission to post pictures.
No body nr. we scratch the location to bare metal!
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Time for me to eat some crow and apologize to Bill. Sometimes what we remember has nothing to do with reality. The data plate on Eric's GTs do in fact say "Made in West Germany". Not sure what I thought I saw but, Oh Well.

Anyway I took the Motor from Doug Strasser out to Eric's barn today and got some photos.
 

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Time for me to eat some crow and apologize to Bill. Sometimes what we remember has nothing to do with reality. The data plate on Eric's GTs do in fact say "Made in West Germany". Not sure what I thought I saw but, Oh Well.

Anyway I took the Motor from Doug Strasser out to Eric's barn today and got some photos.
Don't worry about it, John, I haven't been. I can think of some times that I was 100% sure of something which turned out to be wrong, so welcome to the club. You can send an e-mail to Opel with the VIN and they can tell you the date when it was built. I did this some time back and I can send you the address if you would like. Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I went back and looked at the photos of the U790BB GT again. Noticed it looks to have been painted at least three times. First Gold then Yellow then White. Made me think about the stories of the "Get Smart GT" being painted several times.
Could it be?
 

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The preproduction GT with the body nr. 1001 (without „U“ because it es a euro spec) i mention in a mail to Bill, is part of the „Opel Classic Collection“ at the plant in Rüsselsheim.
Everyone who visit this collection can view this GT.
It is the red one. I think i have already seen pics here taken and posted from Gary.
This GT was original gold painted and the VIN reads 93 15 63794.
Jose, Is this the one?
 

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On page 183 of Projekt 1484, it says that B&L produced a total of 1,866 finished GT bodies during 1968, but exported only 1453 of them.
If memory serves.. its these 1,866 and 1,453 numbers that were on the document I referenced a while back that was on Opel letter head, if memory serves it also documented only 18 1.1L built and shipped at that time.
 

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Yes, exact that is the car.
For the people who dont know, the gentleman next to Grary ist the desingner from the GT, Erhard Schnell.

This GT „never leave the factory“ i.e. never was sold. Low miles (Kilometer)



Unfortunately repainted and several parts not original but in some aeras very unmolested.

 

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They drive those Opel's to events around Germany. When I was there in 2011, one of the workers mentioned that he might drive the Aero to the Netherlands GT meet.
Thats just whats happend the last 10+X yaers.
For example the most pic i posted here were taken at the Euro meeting in switzerland. This GT & the orange Aero came from Rüsselsheim all the way on his own axle!
 

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Anyone know what the significance is of the four digit number on the headlight bucket plates. I found this on my recent 70 GT as I was stripping it down for painting. Is this a part number or is it related to the body unit production number. Unfortunately I have two coats of paint over the area that has been mentioned in this thread. I'll take a look at that area after it is media blasted in a couple of weeks.
 

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When I did it I got the reply from [email protected]. That was over three years ago, so the person doing this might have changed. I believe that it will be forwarded to the right person. Bill
One thing which I should have mentioned was that after I got the build date (March 12, 1969) from Mr. Kuntz, I asked about the significance of these body stamping numbers. He said that he did not know anything about them. Perhaps it was a part number, he said. Bill
 

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I would like go back to the body nr.
Beside the nr on the left side there is even a another important nr on the right side (passenger).
This is the „B&L-Nr.“ and it was stamped at the B&L factory in France !after! the paint.





Because the raw shells for the „second“ production line in Bochum bypassed the B&L plant you don´t find that nr. on a „BB-GT“.
The following description is not related to this „BB“-GT´s which are a completely other story. They represent only 24 043 in total off the whole GT production and don't play a big roll in the first months of GT production.

This means that more than 80% of all produced GT passed thru three involved plants during a production pass and every plant marks every GT with one individual kinde of number. For the body manufacturer „Chausson“ we have the left side body nr. than followed by B&L with the right hand body nr. and final Bochum plant with the VIN. With all this three numbers it is possible to reconstruct roughly the production history of every individual GT time-wise.
Since the middle of 69 to the end off production in 73, we see a constant raise of this numbers. The average difference between the r. and l. nr. swinging usually in a small range from 300 to 500 units.
I don´t want to go to much in detail and bore you but the difference had to do with the work flow.

In comparison to this situation, the first month of GT-production went off completely different. The progress of this numbers is erratic and we see a lot of „mismatch“. This happened because only a very low amount of GT´s passed all production steps/stadiums in a time frame they should do. Most of them stuck in a production step somewhere. I didn´t think this was only quality related. The bottleneck to boot up the output as fast as expected was definitely the B&L plant. Keep in mind that they do not only paint and assembling, they also manufactured many GT specific parts. For example sewing interior parts.

The consequence of this circumstances result for some GT in an horrible never-ending build history. As John in his first post states correctly…“early body's were held back for quality issues and then fed back into the production stream“

To make long story short, it is absolutely worth to look at those body numbers, especially on GT´s from this early period.
Stevs GT aka „chrispy“ seems to be a an extreme example. Tho PO posted in an older thread the right hand (B&L-Nr.)-2944. But because the body nr (1016) seems to be extreme low, i would like to investigate this more precisely.

Steve, it would be very helpful if you could post a picture of the area where the inner wheel house arch panel meets the fender. I see these two recessed strips under the wiring loom clamps only on very early GT body's.



 

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I just checked the "B&L" number which Jose mentioned. My "Chausson" number is U1477, while my "B&L" number is 2807 as best I can make it out. According to information from Opel, my GT was built on March 12, 1969. My car has the wire loom clips which Jose showed in the photos. Bill
 
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