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Bob
Quick answer to your question would be, yes. Going back thru this thread, it would seem to be at least one of the first 4000 bodies assembled and one of the first 2000 assembled for the regular line. If you study the posts on this thread the fact that it only has the letter "U" and the numbers would indicate it made for the regular line. The bodies were sequentially numbered as they were assembled. It is possible there is another body with the same numbers but those would be followed be the letters "BB" showing it was assembled for the Bochum line. The "U" means it was meant for the U.S. market.
Thanks for the info. It's interesting learning the history of these cars.
 

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Opeler
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The term „early GT“ could be define by personal preferces in a wide range. In one opinion for example, only the first 10 GT should be labeled as „early GT“. But in the other direction, a massproduced car with a total production of over 100 000 units, i think it is appropriate to zertifid the first 1000 as „early“.

John hat explaned the BUN-basics very well but the hole system of this body number thing is very komplex and full of exceptions. I have attempted to keep my post´s in this thread as simple as possible to aviod not to confuse the people here to much.

Anyway, in the case of your GT i would like to go a little more in detail to schow up how „early“ this car realy is. The left side body nr. stamped by the Chausson factory, was in 69 not only differenced between „B&L“ and „Bochum“production lines but also between US spec and Euro. This means we have four different volumes! At the end of 69 this four differend volumes merge in to only two. „B&L and „Bochum“. Each of this four volumes had separately reached a amount from roughly 8000 units at the end of 69. In jan 70, the factory ad together the volumes from US and Euro spec GT for both production lines. Also the marking for both production lines hat changed. The „Bochum-GT“ had now instead the postfix „BB“, a prefix „20“. The consequence of this operation is that BUN between 8k an 16k are non existent!


Back to jan 69 and Bob´s GT. The BUN reads „1694“. If we multiply this numper with 4 BUN volumes as explained above, we end in a total range of 6700 units. But this number is far away from the total production at that point in time. But there are explications for this discrepancy.

First:
The „Bochum“ production line started in contrast to „B&L“-line, only in jan and grow up in a verry small rate. This means in effect, the „Bochum“ line amount reaches to that spcific time a range from only 200 to 300 units!

Second reason:
is the fact that they dont startet with stamping at „0001“!
As i mention in post #32, they started with „1001“. Stamped „1694“ corresponds in reality to 694 unit´s.

Third point:
As i mention in post #47. Quote:
…the first month of GT-production went off completely different. The progress of this numbers is erratic and we see a lot of „mismatch“. This happened because only a very low amount of GT´s passed all production steps/stadiums in a time frame they should do. Most of them stuck in a production step somewhere. I didn´t think this was only quality related. The bottleneck to boot up the output as fast as expected was definitely the B&L plant. Keep in mind that they do not only paint and assembling, they also manufactured many GT specific parts. For example sewing interior parts.

Fourth Point:
There is trustworthy data.
According to Opel, the 1000th produced GT leaves the factory one 17. Jan 69. The VIN from Bob´s GT is related to the end of jan 69. So figure yourself.

@Bob:
Could you please post a pic from the right side number as mention in post #47?
In your case it reads in „driving direction“ forward.
Later they stamped this number in contrary direction.
 

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Anyway, in the case of your GT i would like to go a little more in detail to schow up how „early“ this car realy is. The left side body nr. stamped by the Chausson factory, was in 69 not only differenced between „B&L“ and „Bochum“production lines but also between US spec and Euro. This means we have four different volumes! At the end of 69 this four differend volumes merge in to only two. „B&L and „Bochum“. Each of this four volumes had separately reached a amount from roughly 8000 units at the end of 69. In jan 70, the factory ad together the volumes from US and Euro spec GT for both production lines. Also the marking for both production lines hat changed. The „Bochum-GT“ had now instead the postfix „BB“, a prefix „20“. The consequence of this operation is that BUN between 8k an 16k are non existent!


José, Here is my BUN Number From The Bochum Plant 1969 see the photo:: BB 2 0 3 3 Does that mean my GT is one of the first 100 GT's Made?? in Bochum Plant?
DSCF3606.jpg

Thank you, We like reading your posts,, very interesting the GT History... for sure! :yup:
 

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Opeler
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Hello Mike

The Bochum line is a different story. As i mention in my post, the increase in volumen was on this line verry slow. I dont know exactly the reason, but surprisingly they catch up over the year and and „overtake“ to the end of 69 slight the „B&L“ line.

To make it more confusing, „B&L“ starts stamping with „1001“, Bochum starts with „01“! The lowest „Bochum-GT“ i know is „36“. This means that „Bochum“ numbers complies real volumes. „B&L“ numbers must be reduced with 1k to get „real“

Due to slow „Bochum-line“ start, „BB“ numbers over 2K not appear antil mai 69. I presume the VIN of your GT had to be something around 94 182xxx – 94 183xxx. Is this correct?
 

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Hello Mike

The Bochum line is a different story. As i mention in my post, the increase in volumen was on this line verry slow. I dont know exactly the reason, but surprisingly they catch up over the year and and „overtake“ to the end of 69 slight the „B&L“ line.

To make it more confusing, „B&L“ starts stamping with „1001“, Bochum starts with „01“! The lowest „Bochum-GT“ i know is „36“. This means that „Bochum“ numbers complies real volumes. „B&L“ numbers must be reduced with 1k to get „real“

Due to slow „Bochum-line“ start, „BB“ numbers over 2K not appear antil mai 69. I presume the VIN of your GT had to be something around 94 182xxx – 94 183xxx. Is this correct?

Yes, To be Clear/correct The Vin# 94183xxxx and the BUN # BB 2033 so lower than a 36 BUN ,, as that you know are alive,,,
BB number being the line Bochum production- Line was 2000 cars "" 20"" was prefix and the cars came out late May 1969
so for me to make sense of this BUN System :ugh:... my GT would then be the 2,033 car made in Bochum prduction-line Plant in late May 1969 ?
 

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Opeler
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Hello Mike
To be correct, your GT has the 2033th US Bochum-line body. There was as well „Euro-spec Bochum-line bodys“ with out "U" stamping at rougly the same amount, at that specific time point(Bochum total roughly 4K).
I wrote "body" because the amount of bodys i not exactly identical to completed car's. This can vary.
Rule of thumb is, the first months of production till mid 69 show big vary. Lather decrase this abnormal phenomenom.

"2033 BB" looks like a "Bochum-prefix" but you will never find the combination of postfix "BB" and prefix "20". Only one of this marking is present. Which one depend on production date. As i wrote in my post #103, the introduction of the prefix hapened in jan 70. This means all Bochum-line-GT with VIN lower as 93/4 2048756 must have the "BB" postfix.
With the intrudiction oft the new marking in jan 70 as well the apearance of stamping has changed notable. Till jan 70 the stamping was „free hand“ executed. Now they use a tool to create nice straight stamping. Please compare the pics. The last one is such a tool stamped BUN.
 

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Could the approximate production date of my '69 GT 1.1 L be determined from the VIN ?
The rear body panel had been replaced before my ownership, I don't know if it originally was a flat panel.
It does have the heater control valve in the engine compartment rather than under the dash.
Are there other features that might help to date this Opel ? Roy
 

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Pedal Smasher
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Roy is there not a tag on the driver side door? It’s pretty hard to figure this out otherwise. The serial number was not based on the model.
 

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Joseph, 1969 USA cars did not have that decal with VIN & Date of Manufacture, nor the under-hood decal with tune-up info.
LynnB , in OK, who has an early GT 1.1 had researched that question in search of info on a Camaro.
IIRC he said those decals were required in 1970 (?) or a little later.
Sometimes those decals, if applied, are lost when body parts are replaced because of collision damage.
 

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Ok. Then you’d need to compare your body unit numbers to other GT’s from ‘69 that have a documented build date. Otherwise it’s a crap shoot. You could look at the VIN and compare it to the start of production and when 1970 started. That info is known. We also know the production window was from like September to May for each model year.
 

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Discussion Starter #112
I know some past threads have touched on this connection between the Body Unit Number stamped into the sheet metal near the radiator and the VIN numbers on our GTs but I could not find one that fit my interest in this so here goes.
In a recent flyer from OGTS Gil made mention of a early 69 GT for sale with a low Body Unit Number and how it should be preserved. I think it had a number under 1500. Not sure what the Vin was or where it fit in the production line. I think anything below U2000 is supposed to be very early production. I am not sure how many in the USA show below U1000. I was under the impression that the Vin for a Body Unit Number in the U1000 range should be lower than say a BUN of U2000.
Here is what throws a monkey wrench into that belief. Eric Schmidt here in Springfield has a number of Gts he has picked up over the years. One of them has always held my interest. It is an early 1.1L GT with flat back panel that has been set up with AC at one time. If that were not interesting enough I checked the Cowl Vin plate# and Body Unit Number and something does not add up. Body Unit Number on this GT is U790BB which is lower than I have seen posted. The VIN would seem to indicate a later build date. VIN# is 931790498 and the data plate says Made in January
One possible answer I have heard was some of the early body's were held back for quality issues and then fed back into the production stream. Eric also has another 69 1.1L with BUN of U1940 and VIN of 931823078. would be interesting to know the circumstances of the GT with BUN of U790.
Not sure if I am doing this quote thing right but I need to bring up post #1
Some of the more recent posts have gotten me a bit confused as to relationship of numbers to assembly and finish. The early 69 1.1L GT's that Eric has do not seem to conform to the numbering recently discussed here I.E the number U790BB. Without a "1" before 790 where does it fit into things. I also wonder if the difference between the numbers on the left support and right support may give a hint on the time frame between assembly and finish. I have not checked the right support numbers on Eric's GT's
 

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I have reviewed part of this thread but have run out of time for tonight.
Gary's post # 3 here could be helpful. How do I enter my info to this list ?
...John, you are not alone in having some confusion.

Here are photos of some numbers from left to right.

U5427, ???, 93 1835...
 

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Opeler
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@ John:
Why you „miss“ a „1“ on Erics „U790BB“ number? This is a Bochum-line GT. As i wrote in #105, Bochum starts with 01 stamping. So every thing is fine. There is no need for a „1“. Do not mix „Bochum“- and „B&L“line. Please read #105.
You do not need to check right side numbers on Erics Bochum GT. Buchum line GT do not have right side body numbers.
Please read #47:).
Quote: „Because the raw shells for the „second“ production line in Bochum bypassed the B&L plant you don´t find that nr. on a „BB-GT“.

@All:
Yes, those numbers tell sometimes interesting storys about a specific GT production history. But prior you guys do not understand the left(driver) side number issue, i dont will confuse you with right side number facts.
Because i have the feeling that it will be easier explain this whole subject with a illustration, i start from the very begin of this theme and draw a simple sketch regarding the different production line path. Please note attachment.
If time permits, i will draw in the next days someting similar about left side nr.

@ GTRoy:
I your case it easy for me to determine the production date. I am pretty sure, your GT leaves in the last week of mai 69 the factory. If you want a more precise date you need to contact Opel direct.
 

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Related to the production process, where were the engines made?
 

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Discussion Starter #116
Jos'e
I do want to thank you for your very valuable post's to this thread. Looking at your diagram and going back and re reading some of your post's has cleared some of the cobwebs from my sometimes less than functional brain. The number of views on this thread tells me you have educated quite a few others as well.
Best wishes my friend.
 

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Opeler
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I wrote a documentation about Opel GT production lines and body numbers.
The support from my buddy Joachim was very helpful and important.
He has a detailed knowledge about the Opel GT history and luckily he speaks fluently English as well.
Please see PDF - attachment.
This documentation will hopefully answers most of the open questions which had been appeared in this thread.

 

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John, Thanks for starting this with a question.

Jose', Thanks for giving us some detailed information about these factory codes.

I have paper showing my GT was California licensed in 1969...That paper is filed somewhere,
not sure of exact date, but Mai '69 for production date satisfys my curiosity.

..GT still has original CA license plates. Photo at Concorso Italiano, Monterey CA Aug 2012.
 

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RunOpel
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Thanks Jose' that is a nice piece of history and thanks for sharing :yup:
 
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