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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Its been a while since i have posted on here, sorry. i have some curiousity boiling up about maybe using a Honda B series in a Opel, or any other little euro rear drive. ive heard countless times that Honda front drivers cant be used due to reverse rotation ove the motor itself. originally i thought if this was a issue that could be overcome using reverse cut gears at all, i doubt it but it was a thought. then i saw a accord circle track mini stock with a B18 and a B-W T10 bolted to the back (apr 2010 issue of Honda Tuning magazine). ive tried to get answers from honda forums on how this is possible if its wrong rotation, but i get nothing. i havent even been able to find out how the T10 was built or if it was in fact different gears used, i belive the accord was built by Canton Racing. would anybody have any knowledge of how this would work? could all the hype just be wrong and the right tranny bolted up with an adapter plate? has me wondering cuz Hondas reliability and screaming VTEC would/could be pretty cool in my 72 GT, Spitfire or MGB. Thanks ahead for help or ideas.
 

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Its been a while since i have posted on here, sorry. i have some curiousity boiling up about maybe using a Honda B series in a Opel, or any other little euro rear drive. ive heard countless times that Honda front drivers cant be used due to reverse rotation ove the motor itself. originally i thought if this was a issue that could be overcome using reverse cut gears at all, i doubt it but it was a thought. then i saw a accord circle track mini stock with a B18 and a B-W T10 bolted to the back (apr 2010 issue of Honda Tuning magazine). ive tried to get answers from honda forums on how this is possible if its wrong rotation, but i get nothing. i havent even been able to find out how the T10 was built or if it was in fact different gears used, i belive the accord was built by Canton Racing. would anybody have any knowledge of how this would work? could all the hype just be wrong and the right tranny bolted up with an adapter plate? has me wondering cuz Hondas reliability and screaming VTEC would/could be pretty cool in my 72 GT, Spitfire or MGB. Thanks ahead for help or ideas.
Your problem here would be much more basic that the cut of the gears. Most, if not all, pre-2000 Honda engines rotate counterclockwise when looking at from the pulley end, while most other engines rotate clockwise when viewed from this point. The result of that is that if you simply bolted a B-series engine to the transmission of your GT, you would have one speed forward and four going backwards. I doubt that this is what you would want. I don't know that much about post 2000 Honda engines, but if I were thinking of trying an engine swap with a Honda engine, I'd start by checking out some of these later engines. Bill
 

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Just thinking out loud here . . .what if you used a dana 30 differential from the front of a jeep under the backend of the opel. Wouldn't that get you going the right direction with the reverse rotation honda motor?
 

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What's your budget?

Anything is possible, but...

"G5 Reverse Rotation Honda Box

G-Force Transmissions, a leader in the design and development of driveline components for Professional Racing Teams introduces the Reverse rotation GF-5R 5-speed transmission.

The reliable GF-5R 5-Speed Transmission, adapted for use with reverse rotation B and H-series engines allows anybody utilizing a rear drive combination to use Honda engine technology with a standard, no hassle driveline. Currently G-Force Transmissions is the only company manufacturing a rear-drive transmission for these Honda engines."

Oh, one small catch - the tranny is $7500 :ugh:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I know about the rotation issues, but it has been done before i just dont know how yet. a thought i did have was along the lines of bigben's idea, but instead of using a front diff from a 4x4 use a dana or toyota rear centersection with reverse rotation gears. just a thought. i have seen and heard about the g-force 5 speed but yes, budget is a hold up. my thing is the accord shown in the april 2010 issue of Honda Tuning was built for ISCARS (like a mini Busch series circle track) with a Dart tall deck B series block, B16 head and a couple other goodies bolted to a NASCAR style spec Borg Warner T10 4 speed. The article didnt go into detail about how it was done and i cant get a answer out of any sites associated with the builders of the car. It did say they used a "custom rearend", but im figuring to stay in spec with the race regs for circle track it would be a quick change with wide 5s or something similar. i just figure if they can do it anybody else can.
 

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Honda Question

I know about the rotation issues, but it has been done before i just dont know how yet. a thought i did have was along the lines of bigben's idea, but instead of using a front diff from a 4x4 use a dana or toyota rear centersection with reverse rotation gears. just a thought. i have seen and heard about the g-force 5 speed but yes, budget is a hold up. my thing is the accord shown in the april 2010 issue of Honda Tuning was built for ISCARS (like a mini Busch series circle track) with a Dart tall deck B series block, B16 head and a couple other goodies bolted to a NASCAR style spec Borg Warner T10 4 speed. The article didnt go into detail about how it was done and i cant get a answer out of any sites associated with the builders of the car. It did say they used a "custom rearend", but im figuring to stay in spec with the race regs for circle track it would be a quick change with wide 5s or something similar. i just figure if they can do it anybody else can.
Maybe since this is a custom build using a Dart block, and a couple of other goodies, it may no longer be reverse rotation. If this is indeed the case then the problem no longer exists and standard rotation drivetrain would work fine. But again, at what cost because I'm sure the parts are not budget items. There is too big of a selection of other choices to spend a lot of money trying to make it work. For ease of swap, the Mazda Rotary or Ford 2300 along with their respective transmissions is a much more economical way to go if you just have to make an engine swap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
opelnut10, i thought about the fact that the dart block could have been built to rotate CW like a standard rotation, i just dont know:confused: no answers from the builders of that peticular car. and as far as using a different 4 banger to swap, im hardheaded. i like to be different, even if it means me pulling hair out and blood pressure going sky high. ive tossed around the idea of 4age, ford 2.3, nissan SRs, and everything in between, including an opel 2.4 FI i just dont know how much the 2.4 will dent the wallet. the thought of having vtec in any of my euros is just tempting. vtec minis are just sick. i have considered honda K series too, it does rotate standard CW. the biggest thing is me doing homework on different swap ideas. id like to be able to have the option of junkyard parts, that was one of my reasons for thinking honda.
 

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opelnut10, i thought about the fact that the dart block could have been built to rotate CW like a standard rotation, i just dont know:confused: no answers from the builders of that peticular car. and as far as using a different 4 banger to swap, im hardheaded. i like to be different, even if it means me pulling hair out and blood pressure going sky high. ive tossed around the idea of 4age, ford 2.3, nissan SRs, and everything in between, including an opel 2.4 FI i just dont know how much the 2.4 will dent the wallet. the thought of having vtec in any of my euros is just tempting. vtec minis are just sick. i have considered honda K series too, it does rotate standard CW. the biggest thing is me doing homework on different swap ideas. id like to be able to have the option of junkyard parts, that was one of my reasons for thinking honda.
I'm sure that you could change the direction of rotation of a B-series Honda engine. The crankshaft and pistons don't care which direction they rotate. It is when you get to the camshafts and distributor where the complications arise. If you could get camshafts with the reverse profile of the stock ones and a distributor which would provide the proper firing order, you should be most of the way home. Then you would also have to worry about the timing belt tensioning system, which is set up for counter-clockwise rotation. You would also have to worry about whether the oil pump would work in clockwise rotation. Then, you would need a starter which turned the correct direction. I actually have a small Diesel engine which has directions with it on how to reverse its direction of rotation. Bill
 

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I was about to suggest the same thing, but it seems that jtb already did it. Fliping the rear axle (and re-doing the welds) seems way easier then modifying an entire engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thats what i was wondering about. I figured the "custom rear end" they used was like a short track standard like a jackman or a winters quick change style with custom gears. then i thought about the fact that you can get reverse rotation gears for Danas and Toyota diffs for use in front application axles. my only wonder would be about the tranny. take a mustang t5 for ex, the gearsets are angle cut for proper mesh and are cut for a motor going standard CW rotation. could it be done with reverse cut gears in the diff and strait cut dogbox style gears in the tranny? im sure strait cut tranny gears would be expensive, but maybe it could be done?
 

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Thats what i was wondering about. I figured the "custom rear end" they used was like a short track standard like a jackman or a winters quick change style with custom gears. then i thought about the fact that you can get reverse rotation gears for Danas and Toyota diffs for use in front application axles. my only wonder would be about the tranny. take a mustang t5 for ex, the gearsets are angle cut for proper mesh and are cut for a motor going standard CW rotation. could it be done with reverse cut gears in the diff and strait cut dogbox style gears in the tranny? im sure strait cut tranny gears would be expensive, but maybe it could be done?
I know this is an old post but I was looking up rwd Honda set up and I'm no expert just a spit ball idea but what if you use the Honda gear box turn the motor long ways instead of sideways and use one axel side for driveshaft? I have seen 4x4 buggies do this mid engine and use the 2 axels for f/b drive shafts .....just an idea ...maybe a stupid one but still an idea lol
 
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