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1970 Opel Gt - Purchased July 1972 - Chartreuse - restored - 3000 miles as of 02-16, 2021 -
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Hey Gordon, both of the horns work - I had rigged a button, simple push button under the dash to pass inspection years ago . I have power from the fuse box tied into the black yellow wire to the horns and I think I found the ground I guess and attached that to the body of the car and the horns worked, but not from the horn button on the top of the steering column. I really have no idea when that stopped working. But the horns do work. I guess my biggest challange is to figure out where that missing ground wire that was clipped on the white plug is supposed to attach to or at...I am guessing some where at the top of the steering column.
 

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Will
I am going to attach some photos I hope will help. If possible follow Gordon's tests first. if you need to open it up these may help. Gordon's last post is dead on. A great number of these columns have been messed up in the past by people trying to bypass the bad ignition switch. As to the nylon washers yes they do go on top of the brass and horseshoe under. Then spring and a little lock washer around the threaded end, I always lose those. I have tried to show what is under the hub that the collapsible pin that passes thru hub connects to. Also you can see that this brass ring can be damaged. All of this can be popped out and replaced and you can see where the power wire connects to the brass ring. But your big problem may be the cut jumper wire from black plug to white plug. Hope this is helpful.
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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Great pics John!

Was that you who sold a few rebuilt steering columns at Carlisle? I bought my current one there from someone.
 

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Yes That would be me and those were some of my first efforts. I am now taking apart three columns and will most likely get one good one out of the lot. The one on the right is a finished one.
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1970 Opel Gt - Purchased July 1972 - Chartreuse - restored - 3000 miles as of 02-16, 2021 -
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John, Thanks for all of the pictures and yes a picture is worth a 1000 words as you have shown me that I have another issue that I had absolutely no idea about. See pictures below.


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This is how my brass ring looked when I removed the top piece and to my knowledge has looked like this since I purchased the car in 1972, you're right there is no brass ring. Recently I misplaced the spring so last year I had a conversation with Gil about a replacement and he mentioned the brass ring did I have one I said no so he also sent that piece - See picture - never looked at it that close as it looked painted to my old eyes now under bright light and the guidance of your picture I see the difference, and understand the difference, wow.

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So can I remove this old ring without the brass and install new/used ring with the brass covering by just working it out the front or do I have to take the whole thing apart and force it out from the back. You also mentioned a wire connecting to the brass ring can you tell me more about that, color of wire and where/how it is supposed to be connected. I am assuming that this is part of the ground system?



You said that you "have tried to show what is under the hub that the collapsible pin that passes thru hub connects to". Can you explain this further, not sure what or where the collapsible pin is or purpose... "Also you can see that this brass ring can be damaged. All of this can be popped out and replaced and you can see where the power wire connects to the brass ring." Regarding popping out the entire brass ring, there appears to be a retaining ring holding it in place, is that correct, I believe you can see it in my picture. But your big problem may be the cut jumper wire from black plug to white plug. Hope this is helpful. Regarding the cut jumper wire from the black plug to the white plug am I to understand that the 7th wire on the black plug goes over to and connects to the white plug?? Or does the wire that was cut run up the column?

Thanks again for your help John. Making progress.
 

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Will
Looking at what you have I think you can pry out the black plastic piece the brass attaches to with a flat screw driver. The retaining clip does not hold that in it is for the turn signal mechanism. The Brown wire you see looped at the top of your photo is the connecter wire to your brass piece. You should be able to pull it out far enough to plug into your used part. You may want to use the flat screw to pull apart the brass and plastic to get a better idea of how and where the brass and wire connect. The Brown jumper wire should be part of the wiring Group that mostly go to the black plug. This one instead goes to the white plug at the number one location. Yours should be still there and may be you can strip both ends where cut and use a crimp connector.
 

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1970 Opel Gt - Purchased July 1972 - Chartreuse - restored - 3000 miles as of 02-16, 2021 -
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Two screw drives on opposite sides and it wiggled right out - glad that retaining ring was not involved. I was also able to clearly see where and how the wire connects - excellent.

Just so I am clear - this extra brown, wire coming down with the black plug, is be inserted into the white plug just across from the red wire. Currently there is a nub of a wire with the clip that was cut off at the quick - hope I can get that whole piece out and just insert the new connector in its place. I just looked at the picture again and there may be just enough sticking out that I can make it work.... I know the PO had some wiring issues as the rear wiring harness beside of the drivers seat has a section that was removed, about 18 inches, and replaced with all black wires?????Who knows....

Thanks John

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Will
If you look at the back side of the connector you have exposed you will see a little nub sticking out. this what holds the connector in the plug. Once inserted it does not allow you to pull connector back out unless you take a small jeweler's flat screw driver and depress it from the front side. You will see a small slot to insert the screw diver in. It sometimes is a pain to bend the tang in but when done you can pull the old brass connector out and insert another one
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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Urggghhh! This time I spent almost an hour trying to figure out what wires are in the white connector in your hand in the pic. The only pic that shows all the wires going to it is the big main schematic and that area is only 1/2" big and hard to read. So I took a close up pic below, but I'm confused. I think the pic I drew is correct. John should be the expert on this, John what do you think? Also, maybe John can send you a chopped off white steering column connector that has all the wires intact that you could just splice in to replace yours with the chopped off wire.

Also, keep in mind that my car, neither the GTX nor my new Banana car, have the original wiring and fuse box, so doing all this research does me no good at all.

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Gordon, many thanks for taking the time to explore and help me solve my problem horn/ wiring problem. This is a biggie and once I get this project finished it will be a big weight off my shoulders. So a couple of observations this afternoon. The extra wire that would be # 7 that runs in the black plug bundle, pictured above is in fact attached to the brass ring, that is the brass ring that the plunger hits when your push the horn button down. I have my battery disconnected so I used the battery charger hooked directly to that wire and tested the brass ring, close to 12 volts. So according to your diagram above the brown wire to horns would appear to be correct that is currently the clipped brown wire on the white plug - so wire # 7 appears to go there and that is also according to Opeljohn as well....I am going to give that a try tomorrow.
Regarding the white plug -Additionally the wire beside of the solid black wire is actually a black/red wire.
The grey wire/buzzer has been clipped as well and I am pretty sure that I have never had a working buzzer - I don't even know where the buzzer is located and frankly that is not something I am interested in restoring - just too annoying. Will see how it goes tomorrow. Thanks again...Carl
 

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Umm, so I am confused. The Opel GT horns are powered by 12 volts WHENEVER the ignition is turned on. In fact, the 1973 GT uses the horn circuit to power the electric choke. That 12 volt circuit doesn't come CLOSE to the steering column. It comes off the fusebox from a switched fused terminal (sorry, I am at the cottage without a wiring schematic) and goes into the harness to the front of the car.

The horn button simply provides a ground "switch" for the horns. The spring-loaded black plastic thing with the brass plunger simply provides that ground circuit (the brown wire) to the brass cup, which is isolated (insulated) from the steering wheel hub. When the horn button is pressed, the brass cup contacts the steering wheel hub, which is grounded to the frame at the column bracket.

All this talk about power in the column for the horn is simply wrong. It is a ground switch, NOT 12 volts.
 

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Just Some Dude in Jersey
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I beg to differ. Unless there's oscillation of power at the horns there should be a detectable 12V all the way to the horn button switch. Close the switch and the power goes to ground to complete the circuit. 12V should be detectable at all points along the way to the switch, unless there is a power oscillation at the horns. If that's the case, power measured to ground should at least be detectable to where the black/yellow wire meets the horns. In the diagram, power clearly DOES enter the steering column at the white connector, then to the Ig switch, then out via the white connector as a black wire, to the horns, then back to the steering column via the brown wire to the horn button. That's 3 lines of power going in and out of the steering column. Unless you are a believer in "hole theory" and that power comes from the negative side of the battery. It would be impossible to measure power anywhere in the car with a voltmeter if power starts at ground. If there's no horn power in the steering column, please tell us where the power to the horns is. Simply saying that there's "NOT 12 volts" doesn't help the diagnosis. Where, pray tell, is the 12 volts so that he can test for continuity?
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Hi Keith, I think you misunderstood my mention of 12 volts, I was just testing the ground wire with 12 volts to see if the wire worked correctly and it does, the wire in question is the wire in the black plug bundle which would be one of 7 wires in that bundle however the 7th wire is not attached to the black plug.. Based on that test the current traveled from the brass ring to the end of the wire that Gordon is showing connecting to the white plug, that is the brown wire attached to the brass ring definetely not a power line. I thought Gordon's earlier post number 11, on this thread showed the schematic pretty well regarding both ground and power and the path of both.
 

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Just wanted to thank everyone for their help I now have a working horn as it was designed to work. I found the wire from the new front wiring harness, that I failed to connect way back when, which is black and yellow, and the number one fuse location with two purple connections and not a black and yellow but a black and white wire, unless it just faded over the years and hooked them together. After that plug in of the brown wire from the black plug bundle, that is wire #7 to the missing brown wire or clipped wire on the white plug the circut was complete and I push the horn and bingo, honk honk. Special thanks to Michael Smith for behind the scene consult and to Gordon for the detailed schematics and to Opeljohn that advised me about pluging that extra wire with the black plug into the white plug and especially for the pictures showing the brass ring as my car did not have a brass ring but rather had a black ring -brass piece was missing which was odd as that part just does not fall off.
 

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Just wanted to add one more comment/picture on the horn assembly for future reference. Recommended in addition to the horse shoe shaped plastic part that goes on the bottom of the push ring, plastic, nylon or Mylar washers between the screw head and the push ring as shown with help insulate the screws on top as the horseshoe shaped plastic part does on the bottom. Washers shown are a little large but the hardware store was out of the size that would have been a perfect fit.


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