[husker]

Jump start a GT?

I have a GT where something is messed up with the ignition. I can put the key in and turn it to the ON position. Here the lights, windshield wipers, radio, etc work. But... I cannot turn the key past the ON position to engage the starter. It will not turn past ON. I tested the starter and if I jump it, I can get it to spin but it does not engage the flywheel to start the motor.

Is There a way to put the key in the ON position and jump start the car from the engine compartment. I could do this on my Dodge by placing a screwdriver across the starter silenoid terminals. How do I do it on a GT? (4 spd)

Thanks

 

[bear]

You can start the engine the same way you did on the van. Short across the large terminal on the solenoid and the one that does NOT go to the coil. The engine should turn over and start. If the starter does not turn over because you got the wrong terminal, it should not be a problem because the coil terminal normally gets 12 volts from that terminal during starting anyway. HTH.

Ron

 

[husker]

van? who said anything about a van? The Dodge I was refering to was my 70 Dodge Challenger T/A.

Anyway... namba209, your answer leads me to another question... Where is the starter silenoid on the GT's? On my Challenger it is on the inner fender next to the battery. I don't see anything like it on the GT.

 

[Gary]

The solenoid is mounted on top of the starter.

 

[bear]

Husker, sorry, I had a senior moment. I saw Dodge and automatically thought of my Dodge van. Gary is correct the starter solenoid is on top of the starter, driver's side of the engine, just below the throttle linkage.

Ron

 

[husker]

I thought the silenoid was attached to the starter. I touched the two terminals together and the starter spun really fast but did not turn the engine over. Just to be sure... I did the same thing on my GT auto that does run and the starter did the same thing when I jumped it at the silenoid... just spun really fast without turning over the motor.

I am confused. When I jump both starters at the silenoid, they both do the same thing... spin fast and do not engage the motor. Is there anything I am missing to start the engine from the silenoid?

 

[greensmurf20]

your probably jumping the wrong terminals....i tried starting a GT by jumping the starter all day before i discovered on accident what i was doing wrong. ok anyway.... you just take ascrewdriver or something of the sort and jump from the positive post, the one with the battery cable going to it, jump that to the terminal thats closest to the drivers side of the car, it will be a little lower than the post.

 

[Old Hippie]

Sounds like you are only hitting the large conductor to the stator. That only makes it spin like a motor. Get a screwdriver from the battery nut to the smaller terminal, that will kick in the solinoid. If the solinoid dosen't jump, it's bad, if it does, get yourself a new switch or a seperate starter button.
My 2c's

 

[husker]

That's what I thought I did... I will try again tomorrow... If I am doing it wrong does that answer why the starter spins but does not engage the motor?

Thanks

 

[greensmurf20]

i'm assuming you are jumping the wrong thing possably because of: when i hooked up the two spade connectors on my starter backwards after replace a motor, the starter would wing over very fast if just the igntion was on, not even the start position. switched them around and it performed as it should.....so my thinking and reasoning is, if i had them hooked up backwards and it did that, then couldnt possably it do the same thing if it was hooked up right but just being jumped backwards?

 

[mjewell]

hey husker:

it also sounds like your ignition switch is toast. alot of guys will put in a 30 amp pushbutton mounte inside the car so as to start it without clawing away with the hood open. it will replace the wiring from the ignition switch. check out a schematic to see which wires go where. what the switch does, basically, is short between the battery terminal on the solenoid and the solenoid power wire (on the drivers side, lower terminal, i believe). the key has to be on to energize the coil, then you push the button to start.

mike

 

[kwilford]

I changed this thread name to "Hot Wire" instead of "Jump Start", because that is what you are doing when you bypass the ignition key. Jump starting is when you hook another car's battery to your own, when your battery is discharged.

Anyway, I digress. A solenoid is, generically, just a big switch. It has a big power cable (from the +'ve side of the battery) connected to the top post of the solenoid. When you provide a power source to the outside (horizontal) spade terminal on the Opel solenoid, it "energizes" the solenoid, which closes an internal switch, connecting the top post to the lower post. This lower post is connected directly to the starter armature, which when it's powered, spins the starter motor.

On the Opel (and virtually every GM car), the solenoid is mounted directly on top of the starter (versus Fords and some Chryslers which have the solenoid on the fender), and the solenoid is more than a big switch. When it is energized, it also moves a lever, which drives the starter gear into the ring gear (on the flywheel), engaging the starter with the engine. If you have just hot-wired power directly to the lower post, you are simply spinning the starter, but you haven't energized the solenoid, so the starter will not engage the ring gear. Or, the solenoid is defective, and isn't driving the lever forward. But then it usually doesn't close the internal contact, and won't spin the starter.

As has been mentioned, if the ignition key won't energize the solenoid, this a common GT problem, as the ignition key "start" contacts get burned, and won't transmit enough current to energize the solenoid. A solution is to either use a secondary relay (sometimes described as an "Otto Start, after Otto Bartsch, aka tekannar on this list). This works if the ignition switch "start" contacts can still transmit SOME power; enough to energize a small relay, but not the big solenoid. This is described in several threads; just do a search for "Otto".

Another common solution is to install a push button switch somewhere on or below the dash, energized by the "on" contacts of the ignition switch. You turn the ignition to the "on" position, and then you push the button to crank the engine.

By the way, the second spade terminal on the solenoid (the inner terminal, which is vertical) is connected to the outside terminal, and takes a full (un-resistored) 14 volts to the coil when the engine is cranking.

HTH

 

[Marcus]

I had this very problem, and I found that the problem was that someone before I owned the car hooked the two smaller wires up backwards to the starter. One of the wires goes to the key switch, and the other goes to the coil. when they are back wards, you have to turn the key to the on position, and jump the starter. other side effects are a non-working Tach, rough running engine, misc gauges not working, the the starter mare rumble and stay engaged.

 

[husker]

I understand how to incorporate a push button to bypass the ignition 'start'. The problem is that I dont know how to hot wire the car. The silenoid is on top of the starter. It has two large terminals - vertically opposed - the top one has the feed from the betery. I am jumping these terminals and getting the fast spinning of the starter. Both GT's I have do the same thing. I can start the auto with the key, I cannot start the manual with the key.

If they were wired incorrectly, neither car would start.

 

[kwilford]

Good photo. This clearly shows how NOT to hot wire an Opel (or any GM car, for that matter).
I attached the photo below, for the lesson to be shared. By connecting the top post to the bottom post, you are only energizing the starter, NOT the solenoid, so the starter gear isn't being driven into the ring gear. Try connecting the top post to the horizontal spade terminal, which will energize the solenoid, thereby engaging the starter gear while it energizes the starter.

If that doesn't work, try the other spade terminal (which I can't see in your photo). And if THAT doesn't work, your solenoid is probably shot.

Good luck

 

[husker]

Don't I feel dumb... but hey that's what this site is for (learning - I mean). Thanks a ton for the help. I will try to hot wire it the 'correct' way tomorrow.

On a side note... Why was I only able to attach a link and not the picture itself?

 

[bear]

Husker, the large terminal on the top of the solenoid is the lead from the battery, you need to short across that one to the horizontal spade lug on the solenoid. What you did by shorting across the two large terminals is put battery power directly to the starter. Because the starter gear did not move into the flywheel, the starter just turned. Part of the solenoid's operation is to shove the starter gear into the flywheel ring gear to turn the engine when the starter motor is spinning. If the solenoid does not operate, try shorting across the TOP large terminal to the other spade lug on the solenoid. If you scroll down below the submit reply button you'll see a browse/attach a file button. Click on that and you'll be able to go into your computer, find the file of your pic and attach the pic from there by double clicking on the pic file name. HTH.

Ron

 

[husker]

Yep... I feel dumb again. The "Attach file" field was there all along... I need a vacation.

THanks all.

 

[Old Hippie]

Husker, if you can make the solinoid jump with the screwdriver, do this: 1. disconect the spade wire, 2. put a meter (or 12v lamp w/ wires) on that wire and turn the start switch again. If you don't see 12v, or a lite lamp, check the wire for a break. It gets hot in the engine compartment and the wire may have a open. If you see power, like kwilford says, your switch may be toast. Simply a matter of choice: new switch, relay or pushbutton.

 

[husker]

Thanks to all of you I got the car started this afternoon. I used some allegator clips to attach to the CORRECT solenoid terminals and then touched them together to activate the starter. At first it wouldn't fire but a quick check and correction of the distributor / firing order and it fired right up. The engine has a knock in it but at least it runs. Drove it around the block to run it through the gears (manual). This is the car that I have for sale... the one that I thought was going to be just parts. Turns out it may be a worthy project for someone. (no, not me.) Anyone interested? Check out the ad and picts in the classifieds.

Thanks again.