I was going to convert the car to run off of 100% water and then sell it, but I need to free up cash quickly for a construction project. However, I am going to throw in the plans and schematics to do it at no extra cost. The car needs a little tender loving care to complete its restoration.
I was going to convert the car to run off of 100% water and then sell it
Diamond Bar, California
$5,000 USD
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Running off of 100% water is not possible it violates the first and second laws of thermodynamics period. I have a masters degree in engineering and there are centuries of science to back that statement up.
That being said I’m guessing it’s this car if anyone is interested
That being said I’m guessing it’s this car if anyone is interested
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MODERATOR'S NOTE:
Umm, yea, I am about a minute away from nuking this member. Something (aside from the nonsense of converting to running on water) just feels "off" about all his posts.
Kyler, can you share the link in non-TapaTalk format?
Thx!
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Sorry, never mind, found it:
What would this opel fetch?
I am trying to set the selling price on this opel. What do you think this opel would fetch?:
www.opelgt.com
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Brings to mind the old joke about the guy that could not remember the brand of his car, but that he knew that it starts with "P". "Impossible!" declared his friend, "Has to run on gasoline..."
(Sorry -- couldn't help myself)
(Sorry -- couldn't help myself)
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@ERNIE_VEGAS : Here's the challenge: You make that car run on 100% water and I pay you US$ 20,000 cash for it.
Fine print: "run on 100% water" means I fill up the tank with water from a garden hose and the car does everything else needed to use that water as a fuel to drive.
Dieter
Fine print: "run on 100% water" means I fill up the tank with water from a garden hose and the car does everything else needed to use that water as a fuel to drive.
Dieter
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Well I do remember the electrolysis experiment in 7th-grade Science class where we inverted two test-tubes filled with water into a beaker of water (salted, as I recall) and then ran wires from a battery into each test-tube. Bubbles would arise in each test-tube, displacing the water. When finished, the tube connected to the positive side of the battery would have twice the amount of gas as the other, consisting of hydrogen, while the tube connected to the negative side would be oxygen. The instructor would place an ember into the oxygen tube, the ember them bursting into flame. The instructor would place a lit match near the other tube, creating a rather loud "pop" as the hydrogen ignited.
www.instructables.com
One has to be careful playing with free hydrogen. It is explosive -- recall the Hindenburg disaster.
Separate Hydrogen and Oxygen From Water Through Electrolysis
Separate Hydrogen and Oxygen From Water Through Electrolysis: Electrolysis a method of separating elements by pushing an electric current through a compound. It is used in various industrial applications such as removing copper from its ore. It is also used to separate hydrogen and oxygen from...
www.instructables.com
One has to be careful playing with free hydrogen. It is explosive -- recall the Hindenburg disaster.
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This is a possible fueling method (IE hydrogen powered cars). The problem is it takes a lot of power to split the H2 from the O using electrolysis.Well I do remember the electrolysis experiment in 7th-grade Science class where we inverted two test-tubes filled with water into a beaker of water (salted, as I recall) and then ran wires from a battery into each test-tube. Bubbles would arise in each test-tube, displacing the water. When finished, the tube connected to the positive side of the battery would have twice the amount of gas as the other, consisting of hydrogen, while the tube connected to the negative side would be oxygen. The instructor would place an ember into the oxygen tube, the ember them bursting into flame. The instructor would place a lit match near the other tube, creating a rather loud "pop" as the hydrogen ignited.
Separate Hydrogen and Oxygen From Water Through Electrolysis
Separate Hydrogen and Oxygen From Water Through Electrolysis: Electrolysis a method of separating elements by pushing an electric current through a compound. It is used in various industrial applications such as removing copper from its ore. It is also used to separate hydrogen and oxygen from...
One has to be careful playing with free hydrogen. It is explosive -- recall the Hindenburg disaster.
Power from the electrical grid must be used and there is a significant amount of energy wasted compared to an electric car.
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Right you are! Sort of like adding more ethanol to make gasoline cheaper and more green...
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Well the ethanol does drop efficiency somewhat, but it’s good for us car guys with high compression or boost. Ethanol has a cooling effect and significantly raises octane. You just have to have your fuel system set up for it and don’t fill up with more than you can use in a couple weeks.
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I was thinking in terms that, in order for the use of ethanol to actually make a difference in reducing energy usage with respect to its use as a gasoline additive, the very latest in state-of-the-art processes must be used to produce it, beginning with the farm that is growing the corn and ending with the still that is cooking the mash...then you have to talk about transporting it.
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I kind of thought the water thing was a joke to make his post a little different from the usual sales pitch. It did seem to spark a little more interest than the "Hey, I have a GT for $5K" post which would have resulted in a debate as to whether the GT was really worth $5K.
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Hydrogen's not explosive, it's just flammable.
Hydroxy/Brown's Gas/HHO/etc ... is quite explosive. When you split H20 into 2H2 + O2, it exists in the perfectly explodable mixture (to turn it back into water, releasing the energy as pressure/heat that you spent with electricity to tear it apart in the first place).
Hydroxy generators are a regular snake oil / conspiracy theory from the free energy crowd. All kinds of BS claims about how they massively increase your mileage.
The Hindenberg mostly just burned like a campfire until right near the end when the hydrogen mostly ran out and the fuel-air mixture finally tilted far enough towards the oxygen side. It had time to crash land, crumple, most of the passengers to run away, everyone to watch it sit there and burn first.
Fun fact, HHO is also lighter than air. You can fill balloons with it and they'll float. You can tie a string to the balloon and light it on fire before you let go of it. It'll get a few hundred feet high before it detonates. When you fill a balloon with hydrogen and pop it with a flame, it makes a Whoof sound and you can feel the heat. When you fill a balloon with hydroxy and do the same, it BANGS and you just feel a shockwave.
Table salt is a poor chemical to use to make the water conductive. A side reaction of shoving electricity through it, is to give enough energy to the chlorine atoms (sodium-chloride being table salt), to bond and bubble up as poisonous chlorine gas. Turns the water green and is so intensely corrosive even stainless will be consumed in seconds. Battery acid, TSP, or even baking soda is less troublesome. Two stainless spoons on a car battery charger each, dunked into water will make bubbles that pop.
It's decently efficient to generate the gas, there's not that much waste heat unless you're greedy and try to speed the reaction up by cranking the voltage above what's needed to electrolyze the water (does make it go faster, but a bunch of the extra power goes into heat and creating steam bubbles).
This is why, even for hydrogen-powered vehicles that Toyota's been working on for 15 years, the service stations don't use electrolysis to get their hydrogen. They take methane (CH4) and crack it to release the 4 hydrogens atoms. More cost effective. But what's even more cost effective is to just burn the methane (natural gas) directly in the engine.
I still sort of have a plan of creating a small (maybe car-sized) autonomous hydrogen blimp that never needs refueling. Solar panel on top, a needle to collect humidity and drip it into a small chamber that electrolyzes the water, and a hydrogen collecting bladder to replenish the gradual hydrogen leak. Batteries and fans for propulsion. Airborne indefinitely.
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Technically, if hydrogen isn't explosive, neither is HHO. The difference is only the speed of the hydrogen oxidation where one has the oxygen radicalized with the hydrogen and the other the hydrogen atoms need to find oxygen as they are basically starving.
Similar to cooling off by diving into a lake VS someone spraying you with a spray bottle.
In most chemical instances, the difference between explosions and "burning" is only the speed of the reaction.
Similar to cooling off by diving into a lake VS someone spraying you with a spray bottle.
In most chemical instances, the difference between explosions and "burning" is only the speed of the reaction.
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Interesting conversation anyway.
I first encounter the run on water thing a decade ago. Lots of claims of examples of improved mileage. We all know there's no such thing as a perpetual motion machine. As Kyler said 100% water violates basic laws of both chemistry and physics, but here's the outside the box theory to debate (although I've never seen any proponents of "run on water" provide a scientific explanation of this sort.) could the introduction of hydrogen and oxygen provide a complimentary effect on the combustion of the gasoline?
For example could it cool the combustion charge or reduce the tendency for detonation of the gasoline such that the ignition timing on a knock limited engine can be increased towards MBT and there by produce more torque for the same amount of fuel, or if running forced induction increase boost without adding a bunch of extra fuel, and does is this increase in torque from the more efficient burn offset the additional power loss from the alternator load required to power the electrolysis?
Basically you would look at the system as a whole not just the hydrogen generator in isolation. (In isolation it is a big fat fail.)
I first encounter the run on water thing a decade ago. Lots of claims of examples of improved mileage. We all know there's no such thing as a perpetual motion machine. As Kyler said 100% water violates basic laws of both chemistry and physics, but here's the outside the box theory to debate (although I've never seen any proponents of "run on water" provide a scientific explanation of this sort.) could the introduction of hydrogen and oxygen provide a complimentary effect on the combustion of the gasoline?
For example could it cool the combustion charge or reduce the tendency for detonation of the gasoline such that the ignition timing on a knock limited engine can be increased towards MBT and there by produce more torque for the same amount of fuel, or if running forced induction increase boost without adding a bunch of extra fuel, and does is this increase in torque from the more efficient burn offset the additional power loss from the alternator load required to power the electrolysis?
Basically you would look at the system as a whole not just the hydrogen generator in isolation. (In isolation it is a big fat fail.)
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Water injection is a common way to increase power and resistance to pre-detonation. It’s been used since at least WW1 where a few aircraft carried a small tank of water for a short boost of power. In WW2 it was very common and called war emergency power.
In cars it’s often used in boosted (and NA) applications as a way to allow for more increases in timing, leaner fuel ratios, and more boost. It’s used a lot in drag racing and rally cross. Meth injection is also used in a similar fashion, but water cools better and raises the “octane” more since it can’t burn at all.
In cars it’s often used in boosted (and NA) applications as a way to allow for more increases in timing, leaner fuel ratios, and more boost. It’s used a lot in drag racing and rally cross. Meth injection is also used in a similar fashion, but water cools better and raises the “octane” more since it can’t burn at all.
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Hmm, could you give an example of how HHO wouldn't be explosive or how pure hydrogen could be? HHO is by definition a stoichio perfect mixture of the two gasses. Hydrogen would have no ability to burn without oxygen mixing in, so it can only proceed as fast as oxygen can get to the hydrogen, which is comparatively slow (I.E. Hindenberg burning).
Are we getting into technicalities like, vacuum-low pressures or, atom-wide containers? I can't think of exceptions.
Also, if anyone cares about derailing the OP... speak up...
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