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Pathologic Opeler
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1,960 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I checked the search on ignition relay...I am an opel/electonics newby..thank you in advance...

my wires are all black...please tell me where the wires go to the relay..I don't know which one is which

what is A?

What is B?

What Is C?


What IS D?

Where do they connect?
 

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Detritus Maximus
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2,790 Posts
A= Battery (positive)

B= Ignition (when you start the car, this wire becomes hot and energizes the starter solenoid)

C= Goes to coil (same side as resistor wire. Since the resistor wire reduces the voltage to the coil, this wire supplies the coil with a full 12 volts when cranking to start the car easier in cold weather)

D= heavy wire to supply power to fuse block for everything but the headlights (or maybe them too?)

If I have this wrong, please, somebody say so....:cool:

For the relay, it is a standard Bosch numbering system.
85: Ground
86: Input from switch (fusebox)
87: output
30: Power from battery
 

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Super Moderator
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1,802 Posts
wires

"A" is from your battery for starting the car. It has 12V power whenever the battery is installed.

"B" is From your ignition switch to energize the starter and engage it to the motor. It has 12V Power when your ignition switch is taken to the "start" position.

"C" is to the "+" side of the coil. It gets power from the battery and bypasses the resister wire while the car is "cranking" on start-up to give the car a "hotter" spark to make it easier to start. Some models do not have this terminal, and on some it is simply not used or hooked-up. It should have 12V only when the starter motor is actually spinning.

"D" is where power from the battery goes to the rest of the car, and it is also how power from the alternator gets back to the battery to recharge it. It should also have 12V all the time.

The "otto-start" ignition saving relay should be hooked up as follows:

-Remove the wire connected to "B" above. This will be attached to the terminal marked "85" on your RS relay.

-Attach a short jumper wire from "87" on your relay to the terminal you just removed a wire from, "B."

-Attach another short jumper from terminal "30" on your relay to the big 13mm lug where "a" and "d" are connected.

-The last wire on your relay, "86" will then need to be attached to a good ground. I like the 13mm bolt on the front end of the starter myself, but the screw where the coil or the voltage regulator attaches works great too.

I guess I type too slow, as opelbits beat me to the punch!
 

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Detritus Maximus
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:D I just have nothing to do. Because my cars are perfect! No work needed. Just ask Calvin.....
 

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Pathologic Opeler
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
ground wire..86 or 87?

there is a conflict in my answers....

opebits said 86 is input...opel guy said 86 is ground

or is it me


thanks!
 

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Pathologic Opeler
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1,960 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
iS THIS CORRECT WIRING

IS THIS CORRECT?
 

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Pathologic Opeler
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
MAYBE IT DOESNT MATTER

IF 86 AND 85 ARE REVERSED..MAYBE IT DOESN'T MATTER.
 

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Super Moderator
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Yup, 85 and 86 are interchangeable in this case. Just as long as one goes to ground and the other to the terminal removed from "b" it should work just fine.

Good luck, and have fun getting to those wires in a GT.

Kadetts are so much easier to work on....
 

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Detritus Maximus
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One of the things I came across, but could not verify, is that later relays may have diode in them. This would mean that current will flow only one way across 85 and 86. I'm not sure which way tho. If everything checks out and it doesn't work try switching the wires on those two.
 

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Pathologic Opeler
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Relay works..

here is a photo of my finished result:)
 

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Pathologic Opeler
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
forum diagram seems wrong

I think the diagram on the forum post may need correction
 

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Member
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247 Posts
Good catch Bucky. My numbers are in the wrong place on the diagram of the relay. According to the DIN standards the definitions of the terminials is as follows:

30 Input from battery terminal,direct

85 Output of actuator(end of windings to ground or negative)

86 Start of winding

87 Input or load

So 30 is battery power
85 to ground
86 originial solenoid wire
87 to starter solenoid

I hope I did not cause too many headaches with this!

DAN
 

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Super Moderator
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security addition

Anyone who has done this modification, and that should be all GT owners, and is looking for a bit more security in their car might benifit from the following sugestion:

The wire connected to terminal 85, the relay ground, doesn't necessarily need ot ground in the engine compartment. It can be run into the cabin of the car and grounded through another switch hidden anywhere you would like as a security feature. That switch would have to be closed AND the ignition switch to "start" for the starter to turn over, and it could be either a momentary switch that you would have to hit every time or a toggle you could use to disable the starter on occasion when necessary.

Just food for thought, in the wake of another stolen Opel.
 

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Registered
1970 Opel Gt - Purchased July 1972 - Chartreuse - restored - 3000 miles as of 02-16, 2021 -
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609 Posts
So I was going through the box, you know the box with all the Opel Stuff and found the Radio Shack 30 AMP Auto Relay, Cat. NO. 275-226 that I purchased 20 odd years ago and thought why not, I need a project this week as I am always looking for ways to improve this 50 year old Opel GT, so I read and read. I have read a lot of good information about the installation of the relay, but some of it seems to be conflicting and therefor some am I. I am most likely making a mountain from a mole hill but please bear with me. The picture that was labeled ABCD in the above thread was not easy to make out exactly where the wires were coming from off of the solenoid, so I created a clearer version that makes it easy to see exactly what is what on a GT. Using that new picture and labels I am hoping someone can steer me in the correct direction. I also made a mock up of the relay showing the direction of the prongs and the locations/numbers as they actually are as there appeared to be a question between 85 and 86, perhaps interchangeable I have read. Please keep in mind that while I have figured out a lot of the GT over time, electrical is my weakest area so again please bear with me. Thanks

430106

This is the same configuration as pictured earlier however 85 and 86 are reversed from the previous picture. The new picture/drawing however is representative of how it actually is if holding it in your hand with 30 to the left. The next picture shows the actual starter solenoid and is labeled ABCD which clearly shows each wire. I am not at all sure if my C & B match up with the original picture

430110


Many posts/discriptions have been shown in different ways/methods/descriptions so it's difficult to compare apples to apples and looking at the above two pictures this is what I think:
  • A&D are the same thing as they both have direct power from the battery so that is the same as compared to the original picture
  • From the previous from Opeldean I cannot determine the other two connections B & C - can't see where they are coming from
  • I know nothing of relays but the directions on the back of the package are shown below and seem to be in conflict with the instructions - but again I don't know how this all works
430116

I have most likely over thought this - just don't want to screw it up.
Thanks in advance for your assistance, Carl
 

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Opel Rallier since 1977
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2,278 Posts
Your letters A, B, C, & D match up with the original photo.

Yes, terminals 85 and 86 can be reversed.

And yes, terminals 87 and 30 can be reversed; either can go to terminals A & D on the starter and then the other will connect to where wire B originally connected. The Radio Shack package identifies one as IN and the other as OUT, but it makes absolutely no difference with this simple relay.

Now for commentary/query: Are you having any particular starting problems, like erratic activation of the starter when you turn the key to START? The particular mod only helps during starting, not during running.
 

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Registered
1970 Opel Gt - Purchased July 1972 - Chartreuse - restored - 3000 miles as of 02-16, 2021 -
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609 Posts
Thanks for the information that helps a lot. I was mainly adding the relay as a protective measure but my starting is not great, but let me explain that to the best of my ability. If the car has been running and I turn it off it will fire right up just as you would expect a car to start. However after sitting for several days or longer I have to massively pump the gas pedal and eventually it will start but not before it, well its hard to discribe but, the engine will turn over but then kind of bind, so I start over, may bind again, and again - sometimes after a bind or during a bind I can snap the key, om and off and it will just start like there is not effort involved so in other words it goes from being really hard to start to all of a sudden we are off to the races. This has occured for a long time, as long as I can remember, both before and after I replaced the ignition key switch. I will take a video of how this all actually sounds and up load later today - after I learn how to upload a video. Thanks.
 

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Opel Rallier since 1977
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2,278 Posts
My best guess of the starting delays after sitting for a few days are:
  • Possibly a poor contact(s) in the starter's solenoid
  • Battery not being well charged (weak alternator or regulator, or other charging system issues)
  • Battery being weak
  • Battery being gradually discharged while sitting by something in the car
How old is the battery? Have you cleaned the battery's terminals well? How far/long does the car get driven once you start it and drive it?

If you have a voltmeter, then measure the battery voltage after it has been sitting for a few days, but before you try cranking the engine. It ought to be at around 12.6-12.7 volts if it has been well charged prior to shutting off, if there is not other slow drain in the car, and if the battery is in good condition. Once running, then measure the voltage on the battery terminals with the idle speed elevated to around 2000 RPM. It ought to be at 13.7-14.4 volts; it will be higher when things are colder.
 

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Your Noble Friend ;-)
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Yes, terminals 85 and 86 can be reversed.
And yes, terminals 87 and 30 can be reversed
I would be careful with this statement, it is NOT 100% correct.
Older and/or cheaper relays have an actual coil inside to pull the switched contact by a magnetic field. On these relays, yes, 85 and 86 can be reversed and 30/87 can be reversed too.
Newer/electronic relays have a diode to protect the electronic switch circuit (transistor), and it is important to have +12V on 86 and ground on 85. Reversing it will destroy the relay. Also, 30 needs to be +12V (incoming power) and 87 needs to go towards the load. Not sure whether 30/87 reversal will destroy the relay, but the transistor will most probably not work if reversed.

Dieter
 

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Opel Rallier since 1977
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2,278 Posts
Fair enough Dieter. I spent part of my career as an electronics engineer and know all about solid state relays. But I think we can say with 99.9999% certainty that Will's old Radio Shack relay is not a solid state type.

Are there actually relays these days being sold in this old form A (which has been around since the 60's or earlier) AND that have this old solid block shape that are solid state relays? I can see this solid state one from Hella, and while the contact numbering is the same, the appearance is quite different. http://hellahd.com/files/5113/4444/9719/H41773001 Data Sheet.pdf
 
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