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Otto Barsh ( Teknarr on here) built and sold a relay called the Otto Start. It was a simple hook up with all the connectors attached and install instruction's. Look to see if he has a thread on it and or is still making them.
 

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1970 Opel Gt - Purchased July 1972 - Chartreuse - restored - 3000 miles as of 02-16, 2021 -
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My best guess of the starting delays after sitting for a few days are:
  • Possibly a poor contact(s) in the starter's solenoid
  • Battery not being well charged (weak alternator or regulator, or other charging system issues)
  • Battery being weak
  • Battery being gradually discharged while sitting by something in the car
How old is the battery? Have you cleaned the battery's terminals well? How far/long does the car get driven once you start it and drive it?

If you have a voltmeter, then measure the battery voltage after it has been sitting for a few days, but before you try cranking the engine. It ought to be at around 12.6-12.7 volts if it has been well charged prior to shutting off, if there is not other slow drain in the car, and if the battery is in good condition. Once running, then measure the voltage on the battery terminals with the idle speed elevated to around 2000 RPM. It ought to be at 13.7-14.4 volts; it will be higher when things are colder.
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I checked the battery its 12.3 after sitting for several days. I have a radio that would put a slight drain but not much. Last battery I had lasted 10 years don't recall when I got this one. I drove the car about 50 miles around 3 days ago. The needle on the amp guage falls quickly after I am on the road a few minutes to where it always rests, just above 0. At 2500 RPM the volt meter reads 13.1
The car started easier today than usual but the video will give you an idea of what I am talking about, the sound, being difficult to start the first time, turn up the volumne to get a good listen. It is not as bad as usual, starting gets worse the longer the car sits. The car starts with no effort the second or third time or after a drive. Also, hear the tinny rattle at idle - I think that has something to do with the exhause pipe system. Any other observations regarding the sound of the engine will be appreciated. Many Thanks, Carl
 

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Fair enough Dieter. I spent part of my career as an electronics engineer and know all about solid state relays. But I think we can say with 99.9999% certainty that Will's old Radio Shack relay is not a solid state type.

Are there actually relays these days being sold in this old form A (which has been around since the 60's or earlier) AND that have this old solid block shape that are solid state relays? I can see this solid state one from Hella, and while the contact numbering is the same, the appearance is quite different. http://hellahd.com/files/5113/4444/9719/H41773001 Data Sheet.pdf
My best guess of the starting delays after sitting for a few days are:
  • Possibly a poor contact(s) in the starter's solenoid
  • Battery not being well charged (weak alternator or regulator, or other charging system issues)
  • Battery being weak
  • Battery being gradually discharged while sitting by something in the car
How old is the battery? Have you cleaned the battery's terminals well? How far/long does the car get driven once you start it and drive it?

If you have a voltmeter, then measure the battery voltage after it has been sitting for a few days, but before you try cranking the engine. It ought to be at around 12.6-12.7 volts if it has been well charged prior to shutting off, if there is not other slow drain in the car, and if the battery is in good condition. Once running, then measure the voltage on the battery terminals with the idle speed elevated to around 2000 RPM. It ought to be at 13.7-14.4 volts; it will be higher when things are colder.
Thanks for the information and evaluation - see response to your questions:
  • Not sure of the age of the battery - last one was a ten year battery and if I had to guess and I do, this battery is most likely 5 plus years
  • I recently removed the cables to the battery and cleaned the connections both to the battery and to the connectors as well - there was an issue on the positive connector but that was resolved close to a year ago
  • Battery after sitting for 3 or 4 days reads 12.3 volts
  • I have a retro radio that may draw a little juice as it remembers presets
  • The car running at 2500 RPM registers 13.1 on the volt meter
  • The car starts super easily the second or third time see video
  • The volt meter drops to just over 0 after just a little time on the road which is normal
  • Listen to the video regarding the hard starting and also would appreciate comments on how it sounds in general as I have nothing to compare it to
  • There is a tinnie sound at idle that I think may be related to the exhaust system vibrating
  • I will have the battery checked out at Auto Zone to see current condition
  • See my first youtube presentation below - never done one before and it only took a few minutes to set up the account and it's, my favorite word, FREE
  • Also look forward to comments on the sound of the engine overall - Many Thanks, Carl
 

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OK, good evidence in the video. Looks like a weak or undercharged battery, or a dragging starter, or both. And make sure that there is a good current path from the block back to the negative battery connection. Some folks have added a heavy jumper from the block to the chassis to insure this.

The fact that the battery is at 12.3 volts after a few days shows that there is either a drain on the battery, or it is never getting charged properly.

The 13.1 volts when at 2500 RPM at the battery terminals is a charging problem. My best diagnosis through-the-computer-screen is that the alternator has some blown diodes and is therefore pretty weak. (Possibly the regulator is not working to the right voltage, but my bet is on the alternator.) You could potentially also have a lot of voltage drop through the ammeter and the associated wiring, if you still have the ammeter.

BTW, are you using a separate voltmeter for your checks? I ask as the small dash voltmeters that that go in a car are not always that accurate. You should use a regular voltmeter for this testing. You can field calibrate it with a new 9V battery; that ought to measure 9.6-9.7 volts.

And if you are not driving the car for 20-30 minutes with a good charging voltage up around 14 volts, then the battery will never get fully charged. The ammeter will show charge for that length of time with the proper charging voltage, if the battery is somewhat discharged.
 

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45 minute drive and battery on the hand held volt meter 12.6 - so looks like I am off to Auto zone to have the battery and alternator tested but seems like the alternator is not charging as it should. Will let you know but looks like you were right on. Makes sense the starter and alternator are about the only major components that have yet to be replaced. I switched over to the after market voltage regulator, 2500 miles ago. Thanks, Carl
 

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And just so you know.... if you measure a battery after charging, then you have to let it 'rest' for 30 minutes or more. The battery will build up something called a 'space charge' inside during charging, and that has to dissipate before you get a valid voltage reading of how well charged up it is...hence the 'rest' time that is needed.

So if you checked the battery voltage right after you cut off the engine after your long drive, and got 12.6 volts, then you would expect the voltage to decrese to about 12.3-12.4 volts after about 30 minutes of 'rest'. A properly charging system will show almost 13 volts on the battery terminals when the engine is shut off after a long drive and a good charge, and that will decrease to 12.6-12.7 after the 'rest' time allows the space charge to dissipate.
 

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And just so you know.... if you measure a battery after charging, then you have to let it 'rest' for 30 minutes or more. The battery will build up something called a 'space charge' inside during charging, and that has to dissipate before you get a valid voltage reading of how well charged up it is...hence the 'rest' time that is needed.

So if you checked the battery voltage right after you cut off the engine after your long drive, and got 12.6 volts, then you would expect the voltage to decrese to about 12.3-12.4 volts after about 30 minutes of 'rest'. A properly charging system will show almost 13 volts on the battery terminals when the engine is shut off after a long drive and a good charge, and that will decrease to 12.6-12.7 after the 'rest' time allows the space charge to dissipate.
So about two hours later the reading on the battery is 12.5 at the terminals.......
 

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Always fun, resurrecting old threads. So, I just bought a Dorman 84601 30 Amp, 4 blade relay to install, as it is time for my State Inspection, and last year (the first year someone actually drove the car into the bay without coming to get me), they had a real issue with the ignition system on my car. There are 2 keys. The original one has to be turned on to activate all of the gauges and such, and the second, somewhat hidden key location under the dash would start the car. Last year, the attendant found that he could start and run the car, but NOTHING else worked. He did not turn on the normal key, seeing as how the car started! No lights, no blinkers, no horn...nothing until he came and got me, and i turned the other key on. He was quite upset, and honestly, I never realized that you could do this, and agree that this is a potentially dangerous scenario. Now I am into the wiring that the PO did...I have/had a few wires from the original harness all taped up. There is a red wire with a large eye ring that I am assuming was connected to "D", although, it only looks like a 16 gage wire, which seems insufficient for this task! There is an off white, maybe even greenish tinted wire with a crimped female blade connector, and then a blue,black, white spiral colored wire with just bare stripped end. These are all located close to the starter. Close to the coil is a coupled back and the clear resistor wire that was just taped up. I know where that is supposed to go, if the other end is where it is supposed to be. Tomorrow, I will be looking under the dash to see what is going on with that end of the mystery. Any confirmations from anyone as to the original colors of the wires going to the starter solenoid terminals?
 

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Uncovered the rest of the wiring harness wrap to try and solve some of this mess. Turns out that the blue, black, white spiral colored wire is the other end of the disconnected black wire coupled with the resistor wire at the coil...that makes sense. The white with greenish tint wire continues through the firewall, so I need to continue tracing that one inside(believe that it will be headed to the original key). The small gage red wire with the ring connector is spliced onto a larger gage red/white wire that heads to the Ammeter. While this makes sense, I am now baffled at how the car has been getting power to the fuse box with this last described wire disconnected! The way the second key was wired disconnected ALL of the original wires from the starter completely(except the battery + obviously), and just had them taped off and hanging. This second key system has wires to all 3 locations on the starter, and one wire to the coil+...that is it! No other splices! How is the rest of everything being powered? I need to get this back to "normal" to be able to install the ignition starting relay, even if it is completely removing the original key system, which is definitely suspect of being "junk".
 

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OK, I spent so much time on the schematic, that I was missing that "they" installed a jumper between the starter battery + connection and the alternator B- connection, effectively bypassing the ammeter to power the fuse-box. Almost there(keep telling yourself that).
 

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By the end of the day yesterday I managed to get everything to do with the ignition circuit back to "stock" configuration, as per schematics, with nice new connectors all heat shrink covered...AND, the original key switch does not appear to do anything at this point. It is very difficult to turn in any regard, which seems to reinforce why a second key system was installed by the PO. I then decided to re-install the secondary switch setup(just a basic Universal system), but this time I wanted to keep all of it's wiring in the foot well, so I followed through with splicing into the wiring harness on the steering column to still utilize of of the original wiring through everything else except the key switch. After completing this fun task is when more questions set in, as this did not "do" anything when activating, either! At least it is now much easier checking currents on accessible connections. 12+ Volts on "Battery +" connection on the switch(fed from the red wire on the steering column harness)...check. Set switch position to "Acc", 12+ volts on the "Battery +" and the empty(nothing wired to) "Acc" connection...check. Set switch to the "run" position(which is wired to the black wire on the steering column harness)...no voltage on any of the connectors. Same result in the "Start" position(and nothing starts). Turn off switch...12+ volts on the "Battery +" terminal again...check! Disconnected battery, and went to bed feeling defeated.
 

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I promise, we are still working towards the "Relay" to start the car that "IS" this thread heading. Thinking through the fact that the wiring "as I found it" had the primary Red/White feed line to the ammeter/fuse-box disconnected, and the main feed being "jumpered" over to the alternator from the starter lug(basically feeding into the fuse-box backwards from design), I figured that I would re-connect the jumper and see what happens. Everything works is what happens, but I do not like it at all. The Red/White primary wire carries voltage, but does not seem to be able to handle any load whatsoever without dropping out. I have now checked the fusible link, which is intact and carries continuity, but it is my next step to replace it to see what happens. I do not like feeding the system from the Red wire side of things. I now know, at least, why my ammeter never seemed to react to anything...nothing was being fed through it.
 
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