Opel GT Forum banner

261 - 280 of 571 Posts

·
Opel Intern
Joined
·
1,290 Posts
Our cars are not F1 or racing cars. AFR is very useful device but I like to keep it simple. I am mechanical engineer but in my heart I am old school shade-tree mechanic, so I relay on the seat of pants and colour of spark plugs. It works fine and the car goes great. Sorry for a digression.
PJ - First - Suck, Squeeze, Bang, Blow still describes our Opel engines and F1 engines the same.

Shade-tree tricks are good and useful but can require a lot more 'nuance' in my experience. AFR is a bit easier to write a decision tree for in diagnosis. The neat thing about AFR is that when you start pairing it to other symptoms, it begins to make immediate diagnosis of problems much easier.

Please keep in mind:
...
C) This problem usually lasts only a few seconds, there ain't much time to look at all your gauges while you're driving 80mph in the passing lane in heavy traffic and your engine shuts off
...
I apologize for my barely hidden anger at someone suggesting that I install yet another gauge that doesn't fix a dang thing and only MIGHT tell me that I have a problem in my fuel or ignition system.
This is why I suggest a data logger. You can just drive around and do your darnedest to create the problem and then analyze the myriad of data traces afterwards. Comparing afterwards can help you discover correlations which were not apparent immediately while you were driving. IMO, every engine needs a logger that keeps track of RPM, throttle position and AFR. Then you can add in spark advance and manifold pressure. Then various temperatures. etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,000 Posts
Oh jeesus freakin' christ. Not one of you genius' said to replace the carb, except one: PJ. And that was over the phone when he revealed for the first time that he had an almost identical set of glitches and he did all the swap outs I did to no avail. One other person suggested that I do a total tear down. I've got 8 freakin' gauges in my dash now, an A/F would make 9, the fuel pressure gauge that Gary suggested would make 10. Might as well get a fuel temperature gauge, too, to make it 11.

So I'm a stupid dooshbag for not permanently installing an A/F gauge in a carbed car that ran just great for 3 years.



Need I say more?

:cussing:
Maybe you should change the title of this thread to "I'm so pissed on". :haha:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
646 Posts
On the subject of permanently installing an AFR gauge in the dash and adding bungs to your exhaust for a carb'd set up, well, I think that is a bit excessive. A temporary set up and an analyzer shoved in the exhaust pipe should be good enough. You'll drive yourself crazy striving for perfection and that gauge flashing a number at you that is less than optimal will mess with your mind. Once you have your jetting and adjustments set up and all other issues resolved and you're at an acceptable AFR range, then a gauge and bungs become useless junk. Could having a gauge give you clues to, say, a vacuum leak or some other glitch starting down the road? Sure, but most people find that those sorts of glitches can be resolved in the normal fashion. I've seldom heard that anyone here set their timing with a timing light and tuned their carbs with all sorts of analytic devices to apparent perfection and didn't have to tweak the timing or the carb settings to resolve a performance issue. All that stuff just helps you get things in the ball park of decent running. As RallyBob has frequently said, every engine is different, even if identical, and fine tuning or adjustments outside of the parameters that devices tell you often need to be done.
:veryhappy
We’re or should I say I’m trying to help you others will and have spoken for themselves. The technology is out there and becoming inexpensively available, why not take advantage of it? To your point on the temporary exhaust analyzer, as Kyler has now mentioned many or some people use the air fuel ratio guage to set the carburetor up, then either stick it in the glove box or unplug it and put it on the shelf. I have to admit, and my wife and I laugh at my tendency to look at it too much, sometimes it seems appealing to me to disable it or stick it in the glove box only because I have an obsessive personality disorder LOL. Anyway this tool could be there in times like this for your situation to have on hand. On the timing I used to adjust the distributor on my older 1.9 like you by bumping it up, then backing off until it found its sweet spot and was happy for decades. This new 2.0 I have is a fickle engine, I was getting detonation after the heat soak (verified by a full 2 point increase on my afr guage) it wants exactly 34° Of total timing (using the timing light with a dial) any more and I’m in risky territory until I get going and the carburetor cools back down. But 2° that’s a very small amount, without those tools I’d be in the dark or too far receded robbing myself of performance, perhaps adding heat by being too late on my firing. Once I get the heat soak under control, and I’m making good progress I can probably get back to 36° total if I want. I’m very interested in FI to me I read through FO’s thread, and others and It may be the best move, if you want to set the engine up right, walk away from it and forget about it. The upgrade in putting in the stroker in your GT May have some similar parallels with my 2.0 experience in its different demands. I think your spark plugs are more of a tuning issue, and that’s a good problem to have. In the meantime I’m going to go out on a limb and say there’s no electrical issue, you found the area and that’s great. I’d urge you without haste, not to minimize the use of these good tools but to grasp their value. They can take you in the rest of the way.

Edit: I wrote this post before I saw your post this morning. Remember I’m just trying to help:yup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,894 Posts
I think You guys need to drop it.

For realz.
Yeah, I kinda agree. There are two sides to every story and about as many was to achieve the same results. Some have FI, some have carbs. We all started with the same old carb,(at least I did, a solex), most moved on to the Weber, some to FI, some to way more complicated FI, but we are still driving the same car. A GT. Different colors, different setups, but still the same car. A 40 year old car, some with 40 year old parts, just upgraded some things. Poly suspension from OGTS was great for me. Some other upgrades came with time. Sprint Exhaust to get rid of boil overs and heat soak. Better seats, Reccaro, Corbau (SP), Mazada Miatas, but still, the same GT. A GT. How many others, own, much less, drive their Gts like some of us do. No need to let things get out of hand, some just want, demand, more perfection out of their 40 year old cars. So like Frozen Tundra said, let's kinda drop it and agree to disagree on some aspects of things. Ok ,off my soapbox now. Jarrell
 
Joined
·
4,231 Posts
Oh good, yet another suggestion that I go back to a stock set up with a 1.9, a Solex, and points.

Gee, I must have one heck of a wackadoodle cockamamie set up that couldn't possibly ever run right because no one has ever done it.

Oh.....wait.....that's right.......my car ran perfectly like an FI engine for 3 years.

Gosh, that can't be right. I must have done something wrong.

I'll go out and put the 1.9 with a Solex and points back in right now.......

:veryhappy
You be the first one who do this mod on a 2.4 and finaly on the 2.5.
But you self wrote that is need a dyno adjust by a specialist.
So I be sure they will find a good middle way!

Go further here where you stop back in 2018

https://www.opelgt.com/forums/aftermarket-side-draft-carbs/70810-2-4-ssd-45dcoe.html

When I read there again and math,the most time the GTX run perfect after the Dyno set up with the Midikit:yup:
 

·
Senior Contributor
Joined
·
4,881 Posts
Oh jeesus freakin' christ. Not one of you genius' said to replace the carb, except one: PJ. And that was over the phone when he revealed for the first time that he had an almost identical set of glitches and he did all the swap outs I did to no avail. One other person suggested that I do a total tear down. I've got 8 freakin' gauges in my dash now, an A/F would make 9, the fuel pressure gauge that Gary suggested would make 10. Might as well get a fuel temperature gauge, too, to make it 11.

So I'm a stupid dooshbag for not permanently installing an A/F gauge in a carbed car that ran just great for 3 years.



Need I say more?

:cussing:
Well I sure didn't expect a response like this but maybe I should have put the statement in better terms so it did not come across like bashing. Sorry if you were offended. I would still like to know the answer to the next question. If the car ran well for 3 years and you did not change anything, what would cause the carb to suddenly have incorrect float levels and whatever else was wrong with it.
 

·
Just Some Dude in Jersey
Joined
·
13,789 Posts
Discussion Starter #269
I sincerely apologize for getting bent out of shape and actually going so far as to type out an angry response. I usually have more self control than that and I'm embarrassed. I know that all you guys are just trying to help. I'm sorry and I apologize to all of you.

It was an indicator of how deeply this problem with my baby has affected me. I was soooooo unhappy to show up at Carlisle and not have been able to show off my hood window and LED lighting or my car at all. I put my finest acquired skills into this car and to have it go to heck with this perplexing problem is shaking me to my core.

:sigh:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,894 Posts
It was an indicator of how deeply this problem with my baby has affected me. I was soooooo unhappy to show up at Carlisle and not have been able to show off my hood window and LED lighting or my car at all. I put my finest acquired skills into this car and to have it go to heck with this perplexing problem is shaking me to my core.:sigh:
It's ok man, no worries, all is good. It just shows how much you have put into your car. Everything as per the Quote above. Can I use the title of your thread to express how "Pissed off I am" about a "New, out of the box" electric fuel pump that was D.O.A.? Darn I just did use it. It's good Gordo. You are running now, I get to wait.:sigh: Jarrell
 

·
Opeler
Joined
·
1,354 Posts
I sincerely apologize for getting bent out of shape and actually going so far as to type out an angry response. I usually have more self control than that and I'm embarrassed. I know that all you guys are just trying to help. I'm sorry and I apologize to all of you.

It was an indicator of how deeply this problem with my baby has affected me. I was soooooo unhappy to show up at Carlisle and not have been able to show off my hood window and LED lighting or my car at all. I put my finest acquired skills into this car and to have it go to heck with this perplexing problem is shaking me to my core.

:sigh:
No apology is necessary! We have all been there before, where you have done the work, spent the money and it ought to start but it doesn't. You can't yet see the solution and the frustration builds until you are ready to set it on fire. Then you finally fix it and it runs perfectly and you are in love with it all over again.
I had a problem with an old Bosch fuel injected engine in another car a couple of years ago that I couldn't see and I tried for an eternity to get that thing to start. I was on the verge of getting it towed to the scrap dealer when I found a loose power wire to the ECU. Now it runs great and I wouldn't take anything for the experience of driving that car. I went from suicidal to ecstatic in minutes. Hang in there!
 

·
Über Genius
Joined
·
8,748 Posts
Gordon, I know how frustrated you were/are as I've been there too. I won't go into details.

In your frustration moments, I stepped out as to not piss you off more but since you've calmed down a bit, I'm chimining back in.

Carburetors don't go bad all of a sudden. Even our beloved Solex carbs failed over a period of time.
A carb is a simple device with a complicated function. It's not like an electric fuel pump or any other device that can fail without warning. Any immediate failure, carb related, is a component OF the carb failing. A clogged passage is the real only immediate failure possibility other than a vacuum leak or possible a fuel solenoid.

Your symptoms were not of a clogged passage. I hadn't ruled out a failing solenoid and done know if you even have them.

What got me, and still does, is that you haven't addressed the sticky lifter. It could 100% cause all your symptoms and account for the test results you've shared.

The very next thing you should do in trying to get to the bottom of the real problem is to pull the valve cover and inspect every lifter and lobe with a 10x magnifier. I'm relatively certain you will find a problem there.
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
9,967 Posts
...I've got 8 freakin' gauges in my dash now, an A/F would make 9, the fuel pressure gauge that Gary suggested would make 10.
I haven't read all the responses Gordo, but knowing how sensitive Webers are to fuel pressure, what I was suggesting with the fuel pressure gauge was a one time, temporary, inline setup to make sure the new fuel pump output was low enough so that it didn't overpower the float and flood at carb over time.
 

·
Bikini Inspector
Joined
·
5,769 Posts
havent yall learned about poking the bear with the stick yet?

Gordon, even as whackadoodle and progressive as he is, is still a purist at heart. He likes to tune a motor by ear. period. and he hates inner motor workings period.

when he has to troubleshoot, he chooses path of parts changing. because he likes to renew/upgrade anyways. and save time. Im sure part of himwanted a backup chinese carb anyways.

Getting an AFR meter takes away from being a purist that can tune by ear. It also doesnt tell him what needs to be fixed. Alot of $ to still have to diagnose and repair yet. Yesin the long run it would prove beneficial, but take away from the romance of Opel tuning.

You guys have heard him say he hates messing with valves right? why would you think he is gonna dive into valve adjustment then? He said he will dig into them during offseason.



If youre gonna be a bear, be a grizzly. Gordo the griz.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
503 Posts
I haven't read all the responses Gordo, but knowing how sensitive Webers are to fuel pressure, what I was suggesting with the fuel pressure gauge was a one time, temporary, inline setup to make sure the new fuel pump output was low enough so that it didn't overpower the float and flood at carb over time.
Since Weber carbs should not have more than 0,2bar fuel pressure you have to use a fuel pressure regulator, and to set the fuel pressure you also need a temporary fuel pressure gauge. I use an adapter like this:https://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/fuel-pressure-gauge-inline-adapter-for-8mm-hose to connect the gauge.
A pic of the gauge and the fuel pressure regulator:
 

·
Über Genius
Joined
·
8,748 Posts
havent yall learned about poking the bear with the stick yet?

Gordon, even as whackadoodle and progressive as he is, is still a purist at heart. He likes to tune a motor by ear. period. and he hates inner motor workings period.

when he has to troubleshoot, he chooses path of parts changing. because he likes to renew/upgrade anyways. and save time. Im sure part of himwanted a backup chinese carb anyways.

Getting an AFR meter takes away from being a purist that can tune by ear. It also doesnt tell him what needs to be fixed. Alot of $ to still have to diagnose and repair yet. Yesin the long run it would prove beneficial, but take away from the romance of Opel tuning.

You guys have heard him say he hates messing with valves right? why would you think he is gonna dive into valve adjustment then? He said he will dig into them during offseason.



If youre gonna be a bear, be a grizzly. Gordo the griz.
This is why I waited.

I don't care that Gordo hates valves and such. He has hydraulics. He needs to get over it.

Hydraulic valves are just his style. They work or they don't. There's no adjusting them. Put them in sloppy, turn the nut 3/4 turn and they're good for most of everyone. A sticky one, however, will NEVER get fixed until you take it out and fix it. No sense in buying the most fancy TV, surround, speakers and lunge chairs if all you get is 70's UHF channels.

Sort of like replacing the entire suspension of your car because you have an out of balance wheel and hate having wheels balanced. Just do it, get it done and see the therapist afterwards.
 

·
Über Genius
Joined
·
8,748 Posts

·
Just Some Dude in Jersey
Joined
·
13,789 Posts
Discussion Starter #279
Check out the cool decal that came with my Weber:

IMG_1416.jpg

Tundra, as usual, is dead on accurate about me.

Suspecting a lifter just didn't fit the evidence at the crime scene:

Random Stumbling ~ Most of the detectives suspected a fuel delivery perp, some accused an electrical perp.

Random instant engine shutdown with no warning ~ Virtually all of the detectives assigned to the case said that could only be electrical in nature

And then it would all go away for a while. We had to fire most of the detectives.


But, now that we have brought in all the likely suspects for fuel or spark and they all have air tight alibis, now we have to bring in an engine psychic.


But, wait, the engine shut down problem seems to have gone away with the install of the new carb and the stumbling, instead of random and intermittent, is now fairly steady and predictable and it responds to carb tweaks. Nothing affected my 2 glitches until I swapped out the carb.

I've only spent about an hour actually playing with the carb adjustments and I was under time pressure to make my car show. That's not nearly enough time to tune a side draft. I decided that it ran good enough to get me to the show, so don't mess with it anymore and flock something up.

Now the pressure is off. Now I'm not in a hurry. Now I don't give a schitt if it runs or not. Now I can take a mental break from my second job. Now I can wait until messing around with it is fun again.

:veryhappy
 

·
Über Genius
Joined
·
8,748 Posts
Don't get me wrong, I totally get it.

Your liver enzymes are up so there's no reason to suspect your knee which we KNOW has problems, right?

Dr House would disagree but, then again, he was the worst doctor. He nearly killed every patient before he finally recovered enough from his Vicodin to find the right issue.

I'm glad the Chinese carb seems to have worked. Your lifter is STILL bad and if you don't fix it, something will go wrong later.

BTW, it's possible that time, and not the Chinese carb is why you aren't still having problems with it dying out of the blue. It's also possible you have a small piece of crap in a passage on your other carb that flips up and blocks a passage intermittently. Who knows.

As you said, wait til it's fun again. No hurry.
 
261 - 280 of 571 Posts
Top