Opel GT Forum banner

I'm so pissed off!

43K views 570 replies 41 participants last post by  The Scifi Guy 
#1 ·
My darn engine did it's phantom sputtering and engine shut down thing again! 20 minutes on the highway at 80 and a miss. Then another miss. And another. Then a several second shut down. The okay for a 1/2 mile. Then a miss. Then a shut down. Etc., etc. etc.........

WTF!

Last week I won a whole car show and drove 100mph for 1/2 an hour on the way home and not a single problem.

Dammit!

I had to stop or I stalled 5 times on the 30 mile ride home. I stopped at my brother's house on the way home and gave the car a good cool down before continuing home with my brother following me for the 15 minute ride to my house. It started acting up and let out a loud backfire, then it stalled at a red light real bad and wouldn't start, then erupted to life, then stalled a block later. We smoked a cigarette, restarted, and drove the last 5 miles home. It started sputtering 1/4 mile from home. I blew all the neighborhood stop signs and roared into my garage.

What the heck is the problem?

I had filled the tank before I left with Mobil premium. Remember my problem with my fuel tank not venting? Could it be that problem again? I fixed the venting and haven't had that problem for several years now. The carb is clean as a whistle inside, new fuel pump, filters are spotless. I can't imagine that I have a clogged jet. How could that cause the engine to shut down completely for just a few seconds, then return to normal, then stall entirely, then wait a few minutes and run normally for 5-10 minutes, etc.? I have a single side draft set up, if one jet was clogged then only half the cylinders would be starved, I wouldn't think that would cause total, brief, engine shut down, then disappear a few minutes later.

The instant shut downs with the tach diving to zero and then immediately returning to normal tells me it's an ignition problem. It's shutting off intermittantly. The fact that I can drive for 20 minutes or more when I first start driving before it acts up tells me it's heat thing. Waiting for a few minutes on the side of the road and restarting with no problems reinforces this belief. The problem's return 5-10 minutes later reinforces my belief that something is heating up and starting to malfunction.

Is it my MSD box? I've got a spare new one in the basement.

Is it my 10 year old Accu-Fire ignition trigger? I'm leaning towards replacing that and getting a Pertronics. It's one of the few things that has been with my RB and GTX cars right from the start of my re-entry into Opeling 10+ years ago.

Remember when my car died coming back from Carlisle pulling it's trailer and I had to get the whole kit and kaboodle towed the final 3 miles home because apparently I was using the wrong ohmage coil for my MSD? It appeared to have boiled out it's oil. I put the recommended ohmage one on 2 years ago. I grabbed the coil, MSD, dizzy, and alternator after the last shut down and all seemed to be the same moderate temperature.

Ooooo man am I pissed off! Nothing is worse than an intermittant electrical problem or any other kind of problem. How do you diagnose and pin point the problem when it disappears for days or weeks or whole driving seasons at a time?

I haven't touched the car since that previous car show when it ran great and trouble free all day. The only difference is that I topped off the tank. Did I not fix my venting problem as good as I thought?

So, two things for me to investigate and replace: Replace the trigger and make sure the tank is venting freely.


So, where should I buy a Pertronics from and what type? I hear that there's a Pertronics 3 version that doesn't resent being left turned on with the engine not running and other benefits. Does OGTS have that type? Should I get one off of Ebay?


Here's a video right after I pulled into the garage with the engine still left running. You'll have to listen really closely to hear the occasional misses:

https://youtu.be/ETWueCiw0Tk
 
See less See more
#207 ·
Didn't you say you had a sticky lifter?

Doesnt metal expand when it gets hot?

Couldn't a sticky lifter seem fine until warmed up?

Did you consider doing an oil change?
 
#208 ·
Well, of course, no sane person would tear into his engine until ruling out fuel and spark as the cause for an intermittant stumbling and stalling problem. After the carb is installed and I fail again, those 2 items will be off the table and the only thing left to do will be to tear into the engine.

And I'm not optimistic about my chances of finding an intermittent problem there. Remember I've already spent quite a bit of time and taken videos of my attempts at finding the tapping lifter sound I hear.

I'm sure I'll fail at finding anything wrong during a peripheral engine autopsy, but I'll give it another go.

After that I'll be forced to take it to the local Opel dude's shop.

:sigh:
 
#209 · (Edited)
You’ll get a good look at your intake and (exhaust ports if replacing the gasket), take some pics if you have room. The condition of those spark plugs would indicate a heavy soot build up. On my rebuilt 2.0 I cleaned what I could when I had everything off, a small wire brush and some solvent worked pretty well. I was running it rich also with that 160 main, I’ve been back to a 140 after seeing that, with a lot better throttle response. If they’re already clean it will be a good testimony for Seafoam. I re edited this because not being accustomed to the side draft, it now just dawned on me that you may not remove any manifolds, You might consider it having a manifold gasket handy anyway, maybe with a flashlight you can get a good enough look through the intake manifold, evaluate then decide if you want to get in closer. I think those manifold to head gaskets are inexpensive at OGTS. Always good to have one on hand.
 
#210 ·
Spanish 45DCOE carb removed, pics of my special offset linkage rod adapter and the bolt on ball post to replace the one that had become unscrewed and snapped off, the ball post after the local muffler shop zapped it to it's lever so that it will never unscrew again, and the Chinese and Spanish carbs side by side. I'll swap the jets, gizmos, chromy stuff, and idle/mixture settings over to the new Chinese carb and install it tomorrow when I get home from work:


Engine Auto part Fuel line Vehicle Car
Auto part Automotive exterior Vehicle Car
Auto part
Automotive exterior Auto part Bumper Vehicle
Hand
Auto part Engine Carburetor Automotive engine part Automotive super charger part
 
#211 ·
Conectors, Plus-wires or relais???

Hi Gordon
I show the video from engine shut off to Hartmut.
He ask me if you use a electric fan with temp.relais, what have the same wire circuit as the ignition.
He mean you have a lose conector,wire or a fail relais.When the engine warm up is nothing but when the engine goes warm it looks like you get a switched power to the ignition power. Power plus Power is zero!

Maybe maybe:confused: I be not a binaer thinker:haha:
 
#216 ·
Hi Gordon
I show the video from engine shut off to Hartmut.
He ask me if you use a electric fan with temp.relais, what have the same wire circuit as the ignition.
He mean you have a lose conector,wire or a fail relais.When the engine warm up is nothing but when the engine goes warm it looks like you get a switched power to the ignition power. Power plus Power is zero!

Maybe maybe:confused: I be not a binaer thinker:haha:
I have an aftermarket fuse box, so there is a dedicated wire to run an electric fan. That wire goes to the fan controller and it turns on the fan at 160*-180*. I have not hit that temperature during my tests or drives, so the fan has never needed to turn on. The engine fan and the nice 75* temperatures we have had do not let the temperature get that high.
 
#212 ·
I put the new carb on with all the jets and settings swapped over. It ran like crap. Fuel was pouring out my barrels. YouTubers and PJ said that I can't just swap stuff and expect it to work the same, I'll have to go through the whole laborious tuning/jetting process. I also need to verify the precise opening and closing of my fuel bowl valve and float. Apparently it's super important that it be accurate to 2-3 mm, otherwise the fuel mixture will go too lean if too low or go super rich if too high.

I readjusted the mix much lower and it ran much better, but I have to verify the fuel bowl float height is right and tune it if it's not after work today.

And I have to do all this assuming that my stumbling/stalling problem is gone and I have a healthy engine and systems.

My big home town car show is TOMORROW.

Oy........

:sigh:
 
#215 ·
After looking at your YouTube video with the gas flooding into the venturis, I would be looking at float level or the fuel pump pressure being too high.
Too much gas>>rich mixture>>fouling plugs>>stumbling and stalling.

 
#217 ·
It looks like you’re really on the right track! You’re ignition side appears to be sound, perhaps the float in your first Weber DCOE caused you more trouble than you thought? Here’s an excellent tuning article I found on your carburetor, when you’re fine tuning and when you get your car rockin & rolling again. Weber DCOE Carburetor Reference: Theory, Configuration,Tuning & Reference Documents
HTH
 
#218 ·
Well, I don't know about being on the right track, but it has a lot of potential.

If this carb is going to want all new jetting and all new mixture settings and a fuel regulator set at 2psi and fuel bowl float adjustment and all of this on an engine set up that was nice and stable and super drivable for 3 years and all my woes mysteriously go away, then what the heck was going on the past 3 years? Why would I have to radically change all of the settings and gizmos to basically get the car to run as good as it did the past 3 years with a very different set up?

Fuel injection is starting to look very appealing at this point.

:veryhappy
 
#219 ·
If you do fuel injection you will still have to tune and wire and be super fed up trying to get it to work too.
The jetting on the China carb should be about the same as the 40 DCOE as long as you swapped everything over. The accelerator pump, pump exhaust, aux Venturi, venturi, etc.
 
#220 ·
I can't make any determination about my jetting because I didn't have any jets in a super large size that no one ever uses, so the tuner dude had to drill out my largest jets to make the engine run right. Since I am now going to have to self school myself in side draft jetting of an SSD on a 2.5 CIH, which NO ONE has and for which there are no established guide lines for, and because I have no ear for when one of these engines is running right, I'm going to now have to buy schitloads of jets and get myself an exhaust analyzer.

This will, of course, take me months to do and I will hate every second of it and I'll miss the whole car show season and I'll have to deal with the wagon project and I will probably drain the gas and say "flock it" and shelve the whole car until next year.

I am SO pissed off!

:cussing:




(Yes, I'm a drama queen)
 
#221 · (Edited)
I can't make any determination about my jetting because I didn't have any jets in a super large size that no one ever uses, so the tuner dude had to drill out my largest jets to make the engine run right. Since I am now going to have to self school myself in side draft jetting of an SSD on a 2.5 CIH, which NO ONE has and for which there are no established guide lines for, and because I have no ear for when one of these engines is running right, I'm going to now have to buy schitloads of jets and get myself an exhaust analyzer.

This will, of course, take me months to do and I will hate every second of it and I'll miss the whole car show season and I'll have to deal with the wagon project and I will probably drain the gas and say "flock it" and shelve the whole car until next year.

I am SO pissed off!

:cussing:
Or you could get a set of gauges and measure the hole size in your existing drilled out jets with them. The jet numbers are the diameter of the hole ie. A 140 Main is 1.40mm. A 40f9 idle jet is .4mm hole in the bottom with a f9 air hole (don’t drill the air hole just buy the proper f number you can call me with questions on this).

I’m lying a little bit though. A 140main jet is not exactly 1.4mm it may be slightly larger but it’s close enough. Weber sizes the jets by flow rate. Ie a 140 Main flows the same as a perfect 1.4mm hole.

Also be sure to get a true AFR gauge like the AEM one I use. A tail pipe sniffer won’t do crap for tuning your carb without a dyno.

You’ll be aiming for 11.8-12.8 AFR idle, 12.5 AFR WOT, and between 11.8 and 13.8 everywhere else. If you are lucky you’ll manage 12.5 everywhere and run great. It’s truly just where the engine runs best though. That’s why I’m giving such large ranges. My engine loves to be very rich! Yours might be happy above 13AFR for cruising. Anything between 10 and 15 AFR will give you nice tan sparky plugs too:)

Seriously though. I’m about 90% sure your existing jets will be adequate after you get the float and needle worked out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Scifi Guy
#222 ·
Wideband

Now you’re talking buddy!
AEM Uego Gauge (30-4110NS) and Bosch Wideband Sensor (17025) Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NAJ8XZW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ICd6CbYKGTVGJ
On today’s gas I wouldn’t have started jetting my 32/36 without it! And that’s the basic Weber. Get that installed and your life will change. Yeah I’ve got a lot of jets to go along with that too. Randy at Redline is where I picked up mine for a little over $3 each, IDK maybe it was closer to $4 but better than anywhere else that I found. Randy’s good about troubleshooting over the phone too.
 
#224 ·
Now you’re talking buddy!
AEM Uego Gauge (30-4110NS) and Bosch Wideband Sensor (17025) Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NAJ8XZW/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_ICd6CbYKGTVGJ
On today’s gas I wouldn’t have started jetting my 32/36 without it! And that’s the basic Weber. Get that installed and your life will change. Yeah I’ve got a lot of jets to go along with that too. Randy at Redline is where I picked up mine for a little over $3 each, IDK maybe it was closer to $4 but better than anywhere else that I found. Randy’s good about troubleshooting over the phone too.
I still like the PLX Wideband AFR controller and their gauge. JMO
 
#226 ·
You could buy a 2lb pressure regulator and put it in with your current carb.
You could also buy a NEW float valve.

Neither one of those cost enough though.
 
#228 ·
P.J. I agree with you.
I was thinking he would test the new carb in factory set up first.
But no,why start the next mish mash with maybe old fails!
I guess the China Weber will work at it is from Factory.Maybe a little fine tune but not more.
And most time in three years the old carb runs good with the normal midikit intake.

Enough said:sad6:
 
#230 ·
She runs! The engine doesn't randomly shut off!

That's good enough for me, I can go to my home town car show!

The float was set at 10mm, it's supposed to be at 12-15mm. I set it at a good 15mm, maybe even 16mm, probably a tad too much.

When I removed one of the main jet assemblies to test the depth of the fuel in the hole with an allen wrench, 1.5" of the allen was wet with fuel. If I understand the video correctly, only 1"(25mm) should have been wet. This was with the car cold and unstarted since yesterday, so there remains the possibility that some of the fuel had burned off due to heat soak and the actual running level might be even higher. That would put the fuel level even with some holes in the jet that I guess are supposed to suck air, not fuel. Therefore the 10mm gap made the fuel level very high. Too high. This would make the engine run way rich.

Reinstalled the cover and float, started and warmed up, running was stumbly, but sustainable, and the stumble was fairly regular, instead of sudden and brief. Fiddled with the mixture and idle speed and mixture and idle speed over and over, settled on 1.5 turns out on both barrels, couldn't really make a dent in the background stumble, went for a drive and noticed that it stumbled pretty good under acceleration. I did stops on the side of the neighborhood roads and impromptu mini-one-man car shows ensued. I battled their questions while trying to remember how many turns I was trying to turn my jets. I didn't seem to make a dent in the stumble and I didn't feel it was warranted to go super rich and wind the mix screws out to the car's 3-year previous set up of 3 turns out. I felt at that point that the stumble under acceleration was due to the float now having TOO MUCH gap and, therefore, the fuel bowl was too low and starving the main jets for fuel.

Good enough is good enough, I can make my car show.
 
#231 ·
Great progress!
Measure the fuel level in the main jet hole while the car is running!!! This is gives the most accurate reading.

The car will run fine with the jet assembly removed as the carb does not use that circuit for idling.

I tuned my low speed cruise and idle circuit with the main jets and emulsion tubes removed one time:)
 
#232 ·
:banana: Congratulations that the GT runs, and it should be drivable for the weekend car show! :drive:

Without experience on this type of carburetor that several owners prefer, why would one purchase a knock-off manufacturer instead of genuine Weber? Using the same Weber carburetor, parts, jetting, etc. would be interchangeable. Did the experts determine that the less expensive knock-off is equal to or better than Weber?
 
#236 ·
$$$$$ was the reason. Buying a new carb was an experiment with no real justifiable reason to do so other than that it was the last thing to replace. Cars don't just turn off instantly without warning due to lack of fuel. The sputtering could definitely have been caused by a carb, but sudden shut down is generally considered to be an electrical problem. But side drafts are very different from down draft carbs. They react unbelievably quickly to changes in throttle. If you blink your eyes too hard and you apply one gram less pressure on the gas pedal, you feel the engine change speed instantly.

But still, it was an experiment with very little reason to expect the replacement to change anything. The carb was only 3 years old and was spotless everywhere you looked. No reason to suspect it. So, using the same reasoning as PJ did when he had the same problem and replacing everything in the fuel/spark systems didn't work, why not roll the dice and replace the carb? A $250 Chinese carb that didn't change a thing would be an easier pill to swallow that a $500 Spanish one that didn't change a thing.

when is your pressure regulator coming?

is the ballast resistor still installed? if so take it out.
Yeah, I'll take that off this morning before the show.

Great progress!
Measure the fuel level in the main jet hole while the car is running!!! This is gives the most accurate reading.

The car will run fine with the jet assembly removed as the carb does not use that circuit for idling.

I tuned my low speed cruise and idle circuit with the main jets and emulsion tubes removed one time:)
Good tip, I was afraid to do that while it's running.

I’m considering having 2 bungs welded in with the new header,
I could do it no problem and I was going to do that when I first set the car up, but I got so frustrated during the early tuning to try to get rid of the stumble transitioning from idle that I gave up and gave the car to a tuner dude. Info on SINGLE side draft set ups is virtually non-existent. My Weber books only had a one sentence on the subject that went something like this: "You might have to make the Main jet MUCH larger in an SSD set up." That's not much to go on. It turned out that it needed to be a size 30-40 "whatevers" larger than any instruction suggested.

I have the 2.4 stock cast iron manifold with the oxy sensor in my car. The sensor in the hole isn't connected to anything and the wires are chopped off, it's just plugging the hole. Oxy sensors need to be powered up so that they warm up, otherwise they will melt or otherwise get fluffed up. I didn't feel like running power wires to a sensor that I'm not using for anything, so it's just a hole plug in my application. Should I choose to hook it up to a gauge, I'll need to buy a new one and provide it with power.
 
#242 ·
You can get 20-40ms response time with an LSU 4.9 and a good controller. So, if you want to be able to pick out individual cylinders, technically the absolute maximum would be between 750-1500 rpms with a single cylinder. Anti aliasing halves that rev range.

I'm a fan of having 2 lambda sensors on a multi cylinder engine. One downstream to gage an average and one that gets moved from cylinder to cylinder.

EGTs per cylinder and a single lambda can also help you gauge what's happening without having to shell out so much money.
 
#244 · (Edited)
Slow down there Soybean(and possibly others), it's too soon to talk side drafts until you've resolved your current issues with your current set up. Knock out whatever problems you are having and get a stable running engine first. You haven't proved that your rebuild was 100% successful and your car has sat for a long time.

It's hard enough to tune a single side draft or even to get it working in the first place. Dual carbs are 3 times harder. You'll have to conquer how you'll actuate the carbs, with either the solid linkage or with cable throttle, and you'll have to get a gizmo(s) to unify and sync them. Jetting has been pretty well established for 2.0 engines, so that part should be easy.


On the subject of permanently installing an AFR gauge in the dash and adding bungs to your exhaust for a carb'd set up, well, I think that is a bit excessive. A temporary set up and an analyzer shoved in the exhaust pipe should be good enough. You'll drive yourself crazy striving for perfection and that gauge flashing a number at you that is less than optimal will mess with your mind. Once you have your jetting and adjustments set up and all other issues resolved and you're at an acceptable AFR range, then a gauge and bungs become useless junk. Could having a gauge give you clues to, say, a vacuum leak or some other glitch starting down the road? Sure, but most people find that those sorts of glitches can be resolved in the normal fashion. I've seldom heard that anyone here set their timing with a timing light and tuned their carbs with all sorts of analytic devices to apparent perfection and didn't have to tweak the timing or the carb settings to resolve a performance issue. All that stuff just helps you get things in the ball park of decent running. As RallyBob has frequently said, every engine is different, even if identical, and fine tuning or adjustments outside of the parameters that devices tell you often need to be done.

First generation FI, Jetronic, doesn't use an oxy sensor. It's super primitive in how it senses what the engine is doing and what it can do about it. The computer has a very limited preset list of Air/Fuel mixes that it will deliver based on the little bit of information it looks at. It doesn't infinitely fine tune, on a micro-second to micro-second basis, your car's running like modern FI does. The next generation of FI, Motronic, does have an oxy sensor and it has a longer list of preset A/F mixes it can deliver, but it's still stone age compared to Megasquirt and modern FI systems.

:veryhappy
 
#245 · (Edited)
Slow down there Soybean(and possibly others), it's too soon to talk side drafts until you've resolved your current issues with your current set up. Knock out whatever problems you are having and get a stable running engine first. You haven't proved that your rebuild was 100% successful and your car has sat for a long time.

It's hard enough to tune a single side draft or even to get it working in the first place. Dual carbs are 3 times harder. You'll have to conquer how you'll actuate the carbs, with either the solid linkage or with cable throttle, and you'll have to get a gizmo(s) to unify and sync them. Jetting has been pretty well established for 2.0 engines, so that part should be easy.


On the subject of permanently installing an AFR gauge in the dash and adding bungs to your exhaust for a carb'd set up, well, I think that is a bit excessive. A temporary set up and an analyzer shoved in the exhaust pipe should be good enough. You'll drive yourself crazy striving for perfection and that gauge flashing a number at you that is less than optimal will mess with your mind. Once you have your jetting and adjustments set up and all other issues resolved and you're at an acceptable AFR range, then a gauge and bungs become useless junk. Could having a gauge give you clues to, say, a vacuum leak or some other glitch starting down the road? Sure, but most people find that those sorts of glitches can be resolved in the normal fashion. I've seldom heard that anyone here set their timing with a timing light and tuned their carbs with all sorts of analytic devices to apparent perfection and didn't have to tweak the timing or the carb settings to resolve a performance issue. All that stuff just helps you get things in the ball park of decent running. As RallyBob has frequently said, every engine is different, even if identical, and fine tuning or adjustments outside of the parameters that devices tell you often need to be done.

:veryhappy
Gordo, thanks for the response. This setup will be for another engine, that is currently on test stand. Engine has been bored to 2.0. Head already reworked. Cam, I will have to find specs on it today. Roller rockers, polylocks, and stud girdle, Webers and manifolds were found yesterday with my sons help. The roller rockers were redone by GtJim (R.I.P.):sigh: many years ago before you joined, he also helped with my purchase of Webers.
My current problem is a clog somewhere in fuel line, I think it is in the front. I will find out today. Temps have been outrageous here. Awefully hard to work in 90 degree heat with feels like temps 100. I have posted in my little thread about what has been done so far. Listening to weather now. Well above normal for next 3 days:ugh: Can't catch a break. I can bypass where I think clog is. So, all I can do is what I can, before the heat hits, and then move to backup. Thank you for the response, I see I have a lot of reading to do. Thanks, Jarrell
P.S the engine that has clogged fuel line has sprint exhaust. Found out yesterday I have 3 more. "Man, I got stuff"
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top