I came across a GT this last weekend I have been thinking of buying. The body is in pretty good condition and most of the parts are there. A rebuild was started years ago and got as far as gutting the car out. The parts alone are worth more than he is asking for it. When I went to look for a year on it, I found there are no vin tags on it. By way of windows, seat belts and a few other things it is probably a 71. I don't have the heart to part it out, if I go for it finishing the car is all I would do. What kind of a mess would I be getting into? It screams either stolen or an idiot was working on it. I don't know of any way to start paperwork on something with no numbers. Any ideas would be great. He is asking 200 for it and that is extremely tempting. He knows nothing of the car and is selling it as is. It was on the property when he bought the land.
need some advice
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Well, unless he has any documents on or for the car, you're on an uphill climb. Now, GA has a law that any vehicle, over a certain age, doesn't require all documents, just a written bill of sale, but, it does have to include the VIN. The only saving grace you might have, is to rummage through the cars and perhaps you can come up with an old tag reciept that might have the VIN.
No there are no tags anywhere to be found. In this state you can't even scrap a vehicle without a title. I have never done what they call a builders title. But I would guess that unless you actually built something that was never built before they would want some kind of numbers on the thing.
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Hmm...no dash vin, eng compartment vin or door jam vin. THAT is a pretty radical stripdown for just a body overhaul. Not knowing your state, you could ask athe local DMV office. There is a member with info on getting vins from already scrapped opels but I can't remember who. R-Bob has a good head for the Opels, so I think I would send a info request to him.
My 2c's
My 2c's
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rad support?
Isn't there a VIN stamped into the radiator support sheet metal as well. It's not on a label plate, but it should be the correct VIN for the car.
There is supposed to be another VIN stamped into the sheet metal somewhere in the rear of the car, but I don't know exactly where. I thought it was on one of the tabs one of the tail light screws goes through, but I could be wrong. The DMV should have a reference book with the locations.
If you can find any VIN on the car, you can usually petition the state to make you a new vin plate. It may have it's own #, but the title on file will reference your origional VIN. Some guys used to do that with their "race only" muscle cars so the insurance company wouldn't get the origional VIN and charge them the really high rates.
Another option would be the "rebuilder" title option. Since rebuilt cars are usually a compilation of many parts cars, there may be as few as none or as many as 5 or 6 VIN's on the completed car. The state will usually send an inspector to write down the locations and #'s of any identification #'s on the car, and then they will issue you a new VIN attached to a title referencing all the #'s.
You do NOT want to try to title the car as home-made because it will usually have to pass current emissions and safety standards. This was a huge PITA with both of my kit cars and all 3 trikes I built.
The last "option," one I do not condone due to the legalities involved, is to install the VIN plates from a junked car with a clear title. While it is not strictly legal, depending on how much of the doner car you end-up using, it might justify a "rebuilder" title. After all, if you put the drivers door and dash from Car A on Car B, which VIN would you really use for registering the car? Strictly speaking it is still Car B, but the easy to find VIN's both are for Car A. It is also against the law to even posses a VIN plate not attached to a car, so try something like this completely at your own risk and against my urging.
Isn't there a VIN stamped into the radiator support sheet metal as well. It's not on a label plate, but it should be the correct VIN for the car.
There is supposed to be another VIN stamped into the sheet metal somewhere in the rear of the car, but I don't know exactly where. I thought it was on one of the tabs one of the tail light screws goes through, but I could be wrong. The DMV should have a reference book with the locations.
If you can find any VIN on the car, you can usually petition the state to make you a new vin plate. It may have it's own #, but the title on file will reference your origional VIN. Some guys used to do that with their "race only" muscle cars so the insurance company wouldn't get the origional VIN and charge them the really high rates.
Another option would be the "rebuilder" title option. Since rebuilt cars are usually a compilation of many parts cars, there may be as few as none or as many as 5 or 6 VIN's on the completed car. The state will usually send an inspector to write down the locations and #'s of any identification #'s on the car, and then they will issue you a new VIN attached to a title referencing all the #'s.
You do NOT want to try to title the car as home-made because it will usually have to pass current emissions and safety standards. This was a huge PITA with both of my kit cars and all 3 trikes I built.
The last "option," one I do not condone due to the legalities involved, is to install the VIN plates from a junked car with a clear title. While it is not strictly legal, depending on how much of the doner car you end-up using, it might justify a "rebuilder" title. After all, if you put the drivers door and dash from Car A on Car B, which VIN would you really use for registering the car? Strictly speaking it is still Car B, but the easy to find VIN's both are for Car A. It is also against the law to even posses a VIN plate not attached to a car, so try something like this completely at your own risk and against my urging.
My first thought was that it was stolen sometime in it's life. But it has been sitting for 8 to 10 years so that isn't really an issue any longer. The motor, trans and interior are all out of it and in boxes. That tells me restore of some kind. Having a few days to think about it, maybe the tags were put on another car and this one was abandoned.
When I first started looking at GTs I found a trio out of state that were at a good price. When I contacted DMV and inquired about their lack of a title. I found out that you have to bond the car, prove it roadworthy, and in the appraisal and bond it cannot value less than 500 or else it is declared scrap. From there it will never be driven in this state. It would have to be removed to a state that will bring back scrap or salvage vehicles. To make a long story short I bought 2 with clean titles that were in not as good of shape. When I scrapped one of them, nobody I talked to would even take it without a clear title. That and local ordinances about undrivable vehicles are my concerns.
The number on the radiator support is the chassis # and is not the same as vin. I didn't notice if it was still there or not.
When I first started looking at GTs I found a trio out of state that were at a good price. When I contacted DMV and inquired about their lack of a title. I found out that you have to bond the car, prove it roadworthy, and in the appraisal and bond it cannot value less than 500 or else it is declared scrap. From there it will never be driven in this state. It would have to be removed to a state that will bring back scrap or salvage vehicles. To make a long story short I bought 2 with clean titles that were in not as good of shape. When I scrapped one of them, nobody I talked to would even take it without a clear title. That and local ordinances about undrivable vehicles are my concerns.
The number on the radiator support is the chassis # and is not the same as vin. I didn't notice if it was still there or not.
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chassis #
I just went out to double check, but the Chassis # on the radiator support of my Kadett IS the same # as on the VIN label plate on the dash and the registration. Both of my Kadett's are that way.
I just went out to double check, but the Chassis # on the radiator support of my Kadett IS the same # as on the VIN label plate on the dash and the registration. Both of my Kadett's are that way.
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"Chasis Numbers"
My one owner 1972 GT has all different numbers.
The number stamped by the radiator bulk head is the Build Number for the body and used by the body builders in France that made the bodies for Opel.
THe Engine Number is different from the Opel chassis Number on the alloy plate up by the window.
To make matters worse, when it was registered in New Zealand the casting number from the inlet manifold was recorded as the "chassis number" and that is the number recorded on the Left Hand Drive exemption that must be carried in the car so I can drive it on our RHD roads.
What happens when I replace the inlet manifold remains to be seen!!!
My one owner 1972 GT has all different numbers.
The number stamped by the radiator bulk head is the Build Number for the body and used by the body builders in France that made the bodies for Opel.
THe Engine Number is different from the Opel chassis Number on the alloy plate up by the window.
To make matters worse, when it was registered in New Zealand the casting number from the inlet manifold was recorded as the "chassis number" and that is the number recorded on the Left Hand Drive exemption that must be carried in the car so I can drive it on our RHD roads.
What happens when I replace the inlet manifold remains to be seen!!!
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might not matter?
That might work out even better for you though nobody, if you go for a "rebuilder" title. The state inspector won't really know or care what the origional VIN was, he just wants to make sure the car parts weren't from a stolen car. If he runs the chassis # through the computer as a VIN to check if the car was stolen, it's almost a sure bet the computer won't turn up anything, since everyone who had a car stolen probably used the VIN as the # when they reported it.
Then the chassis # will become your VIN for that particular car when they issue you a new title. That should make the paperwork pretty straight forward. GT's didn't origionally have the same # for the chassis # and the VIN, but there's no reason why yours couoldn't, especially since the factory did it on the Kadetts. After all, it is just a paperwork thing, and possesion is still 9/10ths of the law.
Then the only real issue would be proving the year to the state. For that you'll need some sort of reference based on chassis #'s for the build date or import date, which I think shouldn't be too big a deal. In fact, it would probably be much easier to prove model year based on the chassis # than the VIN.
You will need to get either a bill of sale for a car with the VIN on it or a receipt for "car parts" with the chassis # on it or both from the seller either way. Good luck if you try to go through with this.
That might work out even better for you though nobody, if you go for a "rebuilder" title. The state inspector won't really know or care what the origional VIN was, he just wants to make sure the car parts weren't from a stolen car. If he runs the chassis # through the computer as a VIN to check if the car was stolen, it's almost a sure bet the computer won't turn up anything, since everyone who had a car stolen probably used the VIN as the # when they reported it.
Then the chassis # will become your VIN for that particular car when they issue you a new title. That should make the paperwork pretty straight forward. GT's didn't origionally have the same # for the chassis # and the VIN, but there's no reason why yours couoldn't, especially since the factory did it on the Kadetts. After all, it is just a paperwork thing, and possesion is still 9/10ths of the law.
Then the only real issue would be proving the year to the state. For that you'll need some sort of reference based on chassis #'s for the build date or import date, which I think shouldn't be too big a deal. In fact, it would probably be much easier to prove model year based on the chassis # than the VIN.
You will need to get either a bill of sale for a car with the VIN on it or a receipt for "car parts" with the chassis # on it or both from the seller either way. Good luck if you try to go through with this.
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