opel gt 16 Valve Heads
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16 Valve Head
I have read that such a head exists for the CIH block, but are very rare in Europe, and virtually extinct in North America. But to get your salivating glands working overtime, here are a couple of photos. This is a 2.4 CIH 16 valve head
I have read that such a head exists for the CIH block, but are very rare in Europe, and virtually extinct in North America. But to get your salivating glands working overtime, here are a couple of photos. This is a 2.4 CIH 16 valve head
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Re: 16 Valve Head
It would be a fun project....
-Travis
So rare, even in Europe that people are going through the trouble of cutting two cylinders off 24v heads and having special cams made...This isn't just a regrind as the lobes are in completely different places due to the change from 6-cyl to 4-cyl.kwilford said:
It would be a fun project....
-Travis
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The first motor that was posted above (with the black head) is a Manta 400 racing motor. It is basicly a DOHC crossflow head, on a 1.9L block. It was very rare, I think only a hundred or so produced. Gil at OGTS has one of those motors in his red gt, and I believe that he paid something like 10K for it. I know that there used to be a crossflow head availabe for the 1.9L block, I don't know if it was an aftermarket item or if it was from the manta 400 motor.
The second and third motors posted are out of late model opels they are DOHC 2.0L motors that make about 140-150 HP stock. That engine can fit fairly easily but requires modification to the firewall to make room for the distributor. I think that lenk tuning has the components to do this swap as it is fairly common in Germany. It is fairly costly to do this too, and parts would be hard to get. It would be more economical for us in the US to use toyota or honda motors, that have plenty of hop-ups off the shelf. Gil at OGTS can get you one of these motors with GETRAG 5 speed.
There is also a version of this motor that had a turbo on it that produces about 210hp. It is out of the calibria and probly a few other models. It has been fit into a gt as well. It requires the turbo to be flipped 180deg and the fenderwell massaged a little bit to acomodate it. I remember a year or so ago there was a car for sale with this particular motor in it from germany, the guy was wanting i think $18K for it.
Also a note about turbos, I got some literature with my new car from C&R small cars and and Auto Sport, in the autosport catalog they list a turbo for the 1.9L gt motor with about 9psi boost with a rayjay turbo. Has anyone ever seen this kit? It says it was all bolt on.
The second and third motors posted are out of late model opels they are DOHC 2.0L motors that make about 140-150 HP stock. That engine can fit fairly easily but requires modification to the firewall to make room for the distributor. I think that lenk tuning has the components to do this swap as it is fairly common in Germany. It is fairly costly to do this too, and parts would be hard to get. It would be more economical for us in the US to use toyota or honda motors, that have plenty of hop-ups off the shelf. Gil at OGTS can get you one of these motors with GETRAG 5 speed.
There is also a version of this motor that had a turbo on it that produces about 210hp. It is out of the calibria and probly a few other models. It has been fit into a gt as well. It requires the turbo to be flipped 180deg and the fenderwell massaged a little bit to acomodate it. I remember a year or so ago there was a car for sale with this particular motor in it from germany, the guy was wanting i think $18K for it.
Also a note about turbos, I got some literature with my new car from C&R small cars and and Auto Sport, in the autosport catalog they list a turbo for the 1.9L gt motor with about 9psi boost with a rayjay turbo. Has anyone ever seen this kit? It says it was all bolt on.
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I found a few pictures of the 16v crosflow head. here are some stats on the manta 400
http://www.mantaclub.org/archive/manta_b_400.htm
the picture below is from an ascona 400 , I guess this car also used the crossflow head.
http://www.mantaclub.org/archive/manta_b_400.htm
the picture below is from an ascona 400 , I guess this car also used the crossflow head.
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And here is another one, this one looks like it would be perfect for the GT. It is a crossflow head but the intake is on the correct side for the GT. It is a little strage, it seams as if the intake flows from the pentum over the integrated valve cover, into the head.
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The Ascona 400 came first, it was homologated for Group 4 (pre-Group B). The engine is a 2.4 litre block (grandfather to the CIH 2.4 block), with a Cosworth crankshaft, rods, and pistons. Cosworth also developed and supplied the heads. It made 144 ps, or roughly 141 SAE hp. Around 400 of those cars/engines were made, with spare engines being built too. A few years later the Manta 400 was homologated, and around 800 of those were made. The phase 1 rally engines made 240 hp, then phase 2 made 255 hp, and the final phase 3 engines made 275 hp, but were not reliable at that level (blew a lot of head gaskets). By this time, the Manta 400 was outclassd in rally competition by the new breed of 4wd turbo rallycars (circa 1983-1986).
Earlier in the '70's, Opel homologated a crossflow, SOHC 8-valve cylinder head for the Ascona rally cars with the 1.9 blocks. These heads were motorsports-only items, and were never in production cars. They made around 210 hp in rally form, and around 225 in racing form (also used in the Conrero GT's). In 1976 Opel homologated a twin cam 16-valve head for the then-new Kadett C. It was not reliable at all, and the head was a motorsports part as well, not production based. In the early '70's, both Steinmetz and Irmscher had twin-cam heads for the Opel CIH engines. They were neither common nor cheap.
Earlier in the '70's, Opel homologated a crossflow, SOHC 8-valve cylinder head for the Ascona rally cars with the 1.9 blocks. These heads were motorsports-only items, and were never in production cars. They made around 210 hp in rally form, and around 225 in racing form (also used in the Conrero GT's). In 1976 Opel homologated a twin cam 16-valve head for the then-new Kadett C. It was not reliable at all, and the head was a motorsports part as well, not production based. In the early '70's, both Steinmetz and Irmscher had twin-cam heads for the Opel CIH engines. They were neither common nor cheap.
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You'd have to redesign it anyway, aluminum heads have to be thicker at the deck area, around bolt holes, the ports would have to be thicker, etc. So you'd have to start from scratch anyway. It would also need liners at the lifter bores, helicoils at the rocker studs, etc.
I considered having a head custom cast years ago, using all the info I had accumulated about Opel heads. So I'd basically use the 'best' of all the Opel heads...2.2 intake ports, 1.9 exhaust ports...but balance everything out and make the ports thicker. Would've run me about $2000 to have it cast, plus my time to make a buck, and then all the machine work. Don't know if it's worth the time, but it would've been cool.
I considered having a head custom cast years ago, using all the info I had accumulated about Opel heads. So I'd basically use the 'best' of all the Opel heads...2.2 intake ports, 1.9 exhaust ports...but balance everything out and make the ports thicker. Would've run me about $2000 to have it cast, plus my time to make a buck, and then all the machine work. Don't know if it's worth the time, but it would've been cool.
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I think Gil and his buddies are a little overpriced with those OHC motors.
I bought a complete back half of a 94 Toyota MR2 Turbo from Japan with the complete harness throughout the car for $4100 delivered to my door.
I got the engine lid, trunklid, spoiler, newer style taillights.... EVERYHING!
Were talking 245 hp, 2.0l, turbocharged.
I even sold a bunch of stuff off of it I didn't need and got the price down to under what OGTS wants for just an engine, tranny, ECU, and harness.
If they don't drop prices and be more competitive with the available Japanese offerings I can't see them selling many.
You can get a Nissan SR20DET front clip for as little as 1900 bux.
Depending on year 200-240HP, 5-6 Speed tranny. Easy to find parts for and easy to make butt loads of power.
It's already a RWD configuration so no need to reroute coolant lines like a FWD(OHC Opel) engine swap.
My $0.02
ALan
I bought a complete back half of a 94 Toyota MR2 Turbo from Japan with the complete harness throughout the car for $4100 delivered to my door.
I got the engine lid, trunklid, spoiler, newer style taillights.... EVERYHING!
Were talking 245 hp, 2.0l, turbocharged.
I even sold a bunch of stuff off of it I didn't need and got the price down to under what OGTS wants for just an engine, tranny, ECU, and harness.
If they don't drop prices and be more competitive with the available Japanese offerings I can't see them selling many.
You can get a Nissan SR20DET front clip for as little as 1900 bux.
Depending on year 200-240HP, 5-6 Speed tranny. Easy to find parts for and easy to make butt loads of power.
It's already a RWD configuration so no need to reroute coolant lines like a FWD(OHC Opel) engine swap.
My $0.02
ALan
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You must compare apples to apples. The Japanese are essentially forced to scrap their cars after only a few years due to extremely strict inspections...hence the abundance of Japanese market drivelines with low mileage. The inspection is so strict that most 3 year old cars fail. So they buy new cars. This also ensures the 'domestic' Japanese car makers sell a lot of new cars. I have friends that have purchased some of these JDM engines for $300-$375 with under 40k on them, and installed them in their US cars. Had they payed a local wrecking yard, they'd have coughed up over $1000 easily.
The engines from Europe have a lot more mileage and abuse due to the driving style. So if a low mileage engine/driveline is found, it commands a high pricetag. OGTS is also only importing in small quantities, and must pay appropriately higher prices compared to a huge shipment of 100's of engines from Japan, where the shipping costs are largely absorbed by the sheer volume done.
Bob
The engines from Europe have a lot more mileage and abuse due to the driving style. So if a low mileage engine/driveline is found, it commands a high pricetag. OGTS is also only importing in small quantities, and must pay appropriately higher prices compared to a huge shipment of 100's of engines from Japan, where the shipping costs are largely absorbed by the sheer volume done.
Bob
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Another rout to go is to get the Motors directly from Europe. I have been talking to some guys in Germany and in the UK(Vauxhall not opel) in the past few weeks about the shipping. I have found the 16V motors for about $500, and you can get the getrags for around $150, I am just worried about shipping. It is also sometimes difficult to communicate with the Germans since I haven’t taken a German class now for 6 years......
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Here is an example of a 16V turbo motor in a GT. Looks like a tight fit but man I bet that thing flies!
http://www.opel-gt-galerie.de/galkrapf/krapf01.htm
http://www.opel-gt-galerie.de/galkrapf/krapf01.htm
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Opel, Holden, Vauxhall
You can also look in Australia or South America for Holden and Vauxhall cars and trucks. The Australians usually are pretty easy to talk to, and the aussie dollar isn't faring too well against the US dollar these days......
You can also look in Australia or South America for Holden and Vauxhall cars and trucks. The Australians usually are pretty easy to talk to, and the aussie dollar isn't faring too well against the US dollar these days......
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OK, I made up my mind. I am going to find a 4 valve head and put it on a 1.9 Ople lower end and put it in my GT. First off, I need a bit of help. I need to find blue prints of head gaskets, heads or blocks. Any one of the 3 will do. If anybody knows where I can find the drawings, please let me know. I want to find something close to the block dimensions so I don't spend big big $$ at the machine shop.
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That might be more work than you think, but it would be a cool motor. Here are some problems to consider
1. The water jacket must match up
-not a big deal if you find a head that fitts closely
2. That oil galleys must match up
-this might be tricky as if the oil pressure in the head is incorrect you will burn out bearings.
3. special cam gears must be made to align with lower end
-not hard to do
4.you will most likely have to have cams specially made for the correct profile
-not too hard but pricy
5. a newer head will have FI so you will need to have the brain of it reprogramed for the correct air fuel mixture.
-this might be pricy
6. The head bolts most likely wont lign up so they will have to be filled in and tapped in another place.
-expensive and risky as to how strong the new mounts will be.
7. the pistons will need to be dished on both sides for clearance
there are many other problems that could be figured in. I would say just transplant the whole motor from anther car, I bet it would be cheeper and less work.
but on this subject, exactly how different is the 16V block than the CIH block? Could it be modified to fit?
1. The water jacket must match up
-not a big deal if you find a head that fitts closely
2. That oil galleys must match up
-this might be tricky as if the oil pressure in the head is incorrect you will burn out bearings.
3. special cam gears must be made to align with lower end
-not hard to do
4.you will most likely have to have cams specially made for the correct profile
-not too hard but pricy
5. a newer head will have FI so you will need to have the brain of it reprogramed for the correct air fuel mixture.
-this might be pricy
6. The head bolts most likely wont lign up so they will have to be filled in and tapped in another place.
-expensive and risky as to how strong the new mounts will be.
7. the pistons will need to be dished on both sides for clearance
there are many other problems that could be figured in. I would say just transplant the whole motor from anther car, I bet it would be cheeper and less work.
but on this subject, exactly how different is the 16V block than the CIH block? Could it be modified to fit?
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