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thoughts....

I have personally always wanted an rx7 motor in my gt.. but id rather stay stock for now because cash flow = negative in my case.... my reasons for wanting the rx7 motor are that its lighter than stock gt motor and redline is at least 1000 rpms higher. If i keep this car for a long time i may do that... then again maybe ill leave this one stock and buy a "new" one and slap a v8.. *shudders at the work* in it.... who knows dreams wishful thinking whatever you call it eventually it will happen :) anywayz just giving my thoughts... btw i have realized the error of my ways the starter on the gt isnt bad its the sollenoid.. (spelling sucks) i just havent replaced it yet.. im gonna borrow a freind digital camera and show you guys the car within the month.. well later all and gl on the engine swaps..
 

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Why not try a 2.3L ford engine from a Mustang or a Ranger. Or if you get a turbo coupe engine you could have turbo and they all come with a T5 or a automatic. The top speed on the turbo engine is 140 and it has about 170 horsepower.
 

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307GT said:
Why not try a 2.3L ford engine from a Mustang or a Ranger. Or if you get a turbo coupe engine you could have turbo and they all come with a T5 or a automatic.
I belive that the thunderbird motor is the same motor that is in the mustang and ranger, so that is what John is using.
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 · (Edited)
engine weights...

yep your right chris, i'm using the turbo motor. seems like the obvious choice to me....inline 4....200+hp...the guy had already done some nice modifications to it. t3/t4 hybrid turbo, large throtle body, la3 computer, etc...

but after seeing rally bobs list of engine weights a little back, i was a little concerned...

"2.3 turbo Ford - 450 lbs (shocking!)
Opel 1.9 - 270 lbs (I weighed one, had most accessories)"

i can't figure out this fancy quote stuff...

but i did a little more reasearch and found that the weight is really between 320-380 lbs including flywheel, pressure plate, and all acc.

i have been concerned about the extra weight on the opel suspension, how much of a difference will 100 lbs make? it seems that could just be the differencw between a large or small driver, or passenger?

i have already gotten a lowered front spring, but i now wonder just how low the front end will be...also what is the best way to lower the rear of the car? new springs, heat or cutting (ouch)?

i am fabricating my motor and trans mounts right now, and will have pictures soon...

thanks, jon
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
replacing the torque tube?

hey guys,

the swap is proceeding well. i finished pulling off ALL of the tbird wiring. i got one of those dymo letter printers ($30), what a lifesaver, i have everysingle plug neatly labeled. now it doesn't seem so bad.

anyway the question is.... i am using the ford 8.8 rear, it has a posi and discs, but it also has a 'quadra shock' system? it has two trailing arms like the opel, then two more that come into the top of the housing. (4 link?) then it has two 'shocks' that run parallel to the ground coming off of the back, as well as two normal shocks for dampening.

how should this be modified to install in the opel? i have to admit that i have been losing sleep over this one issue since i glanced at the tbird suspension 2 months ago.

i was planning on cutting all of the opel mounts off of the opel rear and transfer them to the ford (after narrowing it +/- 6 inches) but i don't know how to fight axle wrap...should i make a member that runs over or under the drive shaft that mounts to the opel mounts and acts like a torque tube, or somehow fab / mount a four link in? are there any other options?

on another note, the front ford spindles are going to be so easy to modify... the tierods are the same size?! all i have to do is fab a upper ball joint mount on the spindle. i also just mad a new nose piece from scratch. i started with a 36x48 piece of sheetmetal for 5 bucks and now have a new front end.

pics on all of this stuff soon. any advice? thanks, jon
 

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OK Jon... you are beginning to make a believer out of me. I was originally planning on a 3.4 V6 swap but cannot seem to find anything under $1,500. Just called a local pick-a-part and they have a 87 TBird turbo coupe there. They want $100 for the 2.3, $60 for the 5 speed, $15 for the turbo, and $15 for the computer. $1,500 vs $190???

Your swap seems to be going quite well... Are you using the t-5 or the borg one that came in the TBird? I would be very interested in seeing detailed pics/specs on the engine mounts once you it done. Have you worked out the details on the wiring? I am following this closely as I may choose it in favor of my planned 3.4 swap.
 

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Hmm, that brings up a good question. Does the T-Bird Turbocoupe have a Borg-Warner T5 or a Ford T-9 like the Merkur XR4TI does?

Hey jon.haas, don't forget to paint under the hood real nice and clean the engine up good, remember that 33% of the scoring for the GRM Challenge is the concours. I'd hate to see the car run like a banshee and then not do well because of a lack of paint!

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
husker...yeah, i think it's a 'borg warner t-5', at least that what mine had. but i would really look for a complete car. the deals you are getting at the yard are incrediable, but you will need lots of stuff to finish the project. i think you will need a rear end, i don't think the opel rear would hold up long with 200hp. you will need the hyd clutch setup, or get a cable setup off of a mustang. you will also need fuel pump, driveshaft, front brakes? if you going with the rear. a very good wiring diagram, etc... i saw a couple tbirbs go for around 500-700 on ebay just now.

oh and rb, i hope to rule the concours! i am testing a homemade air suspension right now! but the rear end linkage is real pain in the ass, so i dont know if it will happen, i'll just use them to power my foot shear or something...the air shocks may be bad in the autocross, but shouldn't hurt the drag, just imagine the concours though... but i have much more experiance in autocrossing than 'real' dragracing so??? and of corse the car is COMPLETLY apart right now, so when i repaint, it should be spotless. i've even got $ in the budget for some new seals...

what was that anti lag system you were talking about? is it a bov or bcv? or something you invented. very interested. my tbird came with alot of extra parts in the trunk, where is a extra turbo in there...lots of slop, but i can't tell if it's a .43 or not. i know i have a .60 now
 

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The anti-lag system is something being integrated into the ECU by Travis by my request. It's similar in function to the systems used in World Rally Cars. The intent is to drastically retard the ignition timing and add fuel to the engine whenever your foot is off the throttle, as well as open the throttle plate to compensate for the retarded timing (rpms would drop otherwise). The retarded timing increases EGT's....drastically, and the added fuel ignites in the hot exhaust manifold. From this, exhaust energy spins up the turbo and creates boost at idle. It's not uncommon for rally cars to have 15 psi boost at idle. The result? Throttle response like a N/A engine, no lag at all (lots of popping though). The downside is the extreme EGT's would melt a mild steel exhaust within a few days of street use. I figure it only has to last long enough for a good autocross run! But it can be switched off anyway.

Sorry Travis, I didn't know the concours only counted for 20%, I assumed it was an equal split amongst the drags, autocross, and concours.

Bob
 

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Ahem, I said by request , not an order!:)
 

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The pick-a-part said $500 for the whole car. The only thing missing is the interior which I don't care about anyway. Hmmmmm.... I am almost convinced but... I have done very little metal fabrication and the mounting of the engine (any engine other than the stock Opel one) has me a little concerned. I will probably have a machine shop do the motor mounts and trans mounts. Also, my back ground is in Mopar 8 cyl with carburation. The fuel injection and turbos are not an area of comfort. How difficult do you anticipate getting your project running well will be. Would you suggest it to someone who really only has carburation experience?

Have you worked out the wiring and all of the connections yet? Will you be getting the 8.8 rear shortened? Different axles? What is the cost on that?
 

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husker said:
The fuel injection and turbos are not an area of comfort.
As long as you procure the entire system, it's really a no-brainer. The engine loom/FI/ ECU should be fairly self-contained.

For instance, many people are afraid of putting 1975 Opel FI into a non-injected Opel. The reality of it is there are only about 5 wires to be added to the car, the FI system has its own harness.

I'm sure the Ford harness is a bit more complex, but if you got yourself a service manual with wiring diagrams, it should be straightforward.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
in reply to huskers questions.

$500 for the whole car is a deal! i am nbrroweing the rear my self, approx 3" each side. i will have to have the axles shortened also, but i am having that done professionally, they have to cut new splines on the end...$100 it seems llike the axle will fit ok. i think that i am going to make a 'torque arm', that does the same thing as the opels tube. i can't see anyway to reasonably fit a four link in there...i am also fabricating a custom intake, if you notice the stock intake goes over the valve cover to the turbo...too tall! i was going to use a front mount intercooler anyway so i am going to turn the new intake 90 deg c.c. to run to the front of the car. i am also strugling with pushing the engine as far back as possible, it is now in the way of the steering linkage, and the oil filter will require a remote unit. the fuel injection should be 'plug n play' but i have my doubts also, but i do have a buddy who build kitcars with 5.0L donors and the wiring is very similiar, so he can hook me up.

do get me wrong, i am still making good progress. you could 'cheat' a bit if you were to leave the engine forward in the bay. you would have to remove the radiator cross support, that is about where the front of the engine will sit. this would solve alot of problems, and you shouldn't have to cut either footwell, but possible create balance issues (i think) i might also recomend using the stock opel rear, and brakes. this will save you grief, and $$. if you get an automatic computer it is only programed for 150hp so it may last on the rear, and the brakes might be ok with some good pads? I think all the v-6 guys leave the opel rear and brakes?

i'm just trying to give you options... this is not a walk in the park. I have a full shop (mill/lathe/shear/mig/tig/etc..) and this will still not be easy to pull off. not that i think any other engine would have been better, i think the 2.3T is still the best choice. I am just trying to build a car i can drive very hard. i hope to be the first car in the GRM to make into the 12's :D (haha)

anyway good luck with your swap, i will happy to help you out along the way. ;)

jon
 

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While I don't have a full metal shop, my next door neighbor does. He has about a 70 x 40 shop which currently has 4 projects going on. He has a hydrolic-in-floor lift which has made my oil changes a 15 minute process. He also has a plasma cutter, presses, lathes, and numerous welding setups. I will be able to use his tools and knowledge - so there is a plus. I also know an ASE mechanic that will be able to help in the trouble shooting arena. Hmmmmmm......
 
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