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69 opel gt
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Well i recently got a 3.8L v6 (229 CID) engine from my uncle and i was wondering if someone could tell me what mod's i would have to do for the engine to fit in the car?:banghead:
 

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3.8 swap

Well i recently got a 3.8L v6 (229 CID) engine from my uncle and i was wondering if someone could tell me what mod's i would have to do for the engine to fit in the car?:banghead:
That engine is basically a 305 Chevrolet with two cyls. missing, not a very good choice and a lot of work for a little increase in performance. You can spend your money on improving the CIH that is in the car and be time and money ahead. My personal choice is a 2.2 with 2.0 or 1.9 head with big valves and some combustion chamber & valve bowl work with a nice Hyd. cam, single side draft carb., 5 speed Gertrag, and larger exhaust system. That combo will put you in the 150-160HP range and a lot more torque than the 1.9. Machine and re-drill the flywheel and use an S-10 Chevrolet V6 clutch assembly, It will put a grin on your face without putting a hole in your pocket and a pain in your neck:yup:
 

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Hmmm . . . BOP or Chevy?

That engine is basically a 305 Chevrolet with two cyls. missing, not a very good choice and a lot of work for a little increase in performance. You can spend your money on improving the CIH that is in the car and be time and money ahead. My personal choice is a 2.2 with 2.0 or 1.9 head with big valves and some combustion chamber & valve bowl work with a nice Hyd. cam, single side draft carb., 5 speed Gertrag, and larger exhaust system. That combo will put you in the 150-160HP range and a lot more torque than the 1.9. Machine and re-drill the flywheel and use an S-10 Chevrolet V6 clutch assembly, It will put a grin on your face without putting a hole in your pocket and a pain in your neck:yup:
. . . not so fast, grasshopper! It depends on which GM 3.8 V-6 you're talking about . . . the BOP (Buick) 3.8 is indeed a 'cut-down' V-8 (i.e. 90 deg.) and was even offered originally as an 'odd-fire' engine (V-8 dizzy with 2 leads missing), but I believe all the Chevy V-6s (2.8-4.3) are 60 deg. engines.

BTW, that 90 deg. Buick 3.8 engine gained quite a reputation after the crank was redesigned with 'staggered' rod journals for 'even-fire' balancing and adding a turbo of early '80s Buick GNX fame.
 

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Grasshopper information

. . . not so fast, grasshopper! It depends on which GM 3.8 V-6 you're talking about . . . the BOP (Buick) 3.8 is indeed a 'cut-down' V-8 (i.e. 90 deg.) and was even offered originally as an 'odd-fire' engine (V-8 dizzy with 2 leads missing), but I believe all the Chevy V-6s (2.8-4.3) are 60 deg. engines.

BTW, that 90 deg. Buick 3.8 engine gained quite a reputation after the crank was redesigned with 'staggered' rod journals for 'even-fire' balancing and adding a turbo of early '80s Buick GNX fame.
There are indeed two 3.8 GM V6's, but only one that is a 229, the other is a 331 which was used in Buicks,Oldsmobiles and some Pontiacs. The 229 has the distributor in the back and is the same bore & stroke and even uses the same pistons & rods (and water pump) as the 305 V8. The 331 3.8 has the distributor in the front and has the oil pump in the front cover. There were 3 stages of the 3.8 BOP motor, odd fire, even fire and the latest is the Generation III. You may know how to correct spelling, but I know GM engines, having dealt with several hundred and trust me when I tell you the 229 is a 305 missing 2 cyls. and is not a very good piece except for use as a weight to hold something down, and it is certainly not worth all the bother & labor to swap out into a GT.
 

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. . . not so fast, grasshopper! It depends on which GM 3.8 V-6 you're talking about . . . the BOP (Buick) 3.8 is indeed a 'cut-down' V-8 (i.e. 90 deg.) and was even offered originally as an 'odd-fire' engine (V-8 dizzy with 2 leads missing), but I believe all the Chevy V-6s (2.8-4.3) are 60 deg. engines.

BTW, that 90 deg. Buick 3.8 engine gained quite a reputation after the crank was redesigned with 'staggered' rod journals for 'even-fire' balancing and adding a turbo of early '80s Buick GNX fame.
Not all GM engines that range 2.8 - 4.3L are 60 deg. engines. I believe that the last 60 deg. engine of the family is a 3.8L. The Vortec 90 deg. engines range from 3.7L through 4.3L in different flavors.

There are indeed two 3.8 GM V6's, but only one that is a 229, the other is a 331 which was used in Buicks,Oldsmobiles and some Pontiacs. The 229 has the distributor in the back and is the same bore & stroke and even uses the same pistons & rods (and water pump) as the 305 V8. The 331 3.8 has the distributor in the front and has the oil pump in the front cover. There were 3 stages of the 3.8 BOP motor, odd fire, even fire and the latest is the Generation III. You may know how to correct spelling, but I know GM engines, having delt with several hundred and trust me when I tell you the 229 is a 305 missing 2 cyls. and is not a very good piece except for use as a weight to hold something down, and it is certainly not worth all the bother & labor to swap out into a GT.
The 331 is not a 3.8L but a bit larger displacement and the 3.8 is a 350 with two cilinders cut off. The Fireball which later became the Dauntless engine, is the 225ci that was offered in odd fire configuration. Later the same engine was redone and was offered as a 231 in even fire configuration; which led to the LD5 and then to the LC2 engine used on the GNX. I use these 90 deg. engines all of the time because they have a massive torque curve and they are somewhat compact for budget rods. You can also install a 3.8L FWD engine in a RWD configuration by using a Chevy S-10 2.8L bellhousing and a few minor mods.

But if you want to know if it fits inside an Opel gt, please read the following:

http://www.opelgt.com/forums/engine-swap-forum/10895-buick-231-90-degree-v-6-72-gt.html

I believe I have a very minute and possibly remote amount of experience in this swap!
 

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Not all GM engines that range 2.8 - 4.3L are 60 deg. engines. I believe that the last 60 deg. engine of the family is a 3.8L. The Vortec 90 deg. engines range from 3.7L through 4.3L in different flavors.



The 331 is not a 3.8L but a bit larger displacement and the 3.8 is a 350 with two cilinders cut off. The Fireball which later became the Dauntless engine, is the 225ci that was offered in odd fire configuration. Later the same engine was redone and was offered as a 231 in even fire configuration; which led to the LD5 and then to the LC2 engine used on the GNX. I use these 90 deg. engines all of the time because they have a massive torque curve and they are somewhat compact for budget rods. You can also install a 3.8L FWD engine in a RWD configuration by using a Chevy S-10 2.8L bellhousing and a few minor mods.

But if you want to know if it fits inside an Opel gt, please read the following:

http://www.opelgt.com/forums/engine-swap-forum/10895-buick-231-90-degree-v-6-72-gt.html

I believe I have a very minute and possibly remote amount of experience in this swap!
There were no 3.8L 0r 4.3L 60 degree V6 engines- those are all 90 degree V6 engines but are two different families. There is now a 3.9L 60 degree V6 with Variable valve timing etc that is used in the Pontiac G6.

The 60 degree V6 came in 2.8L, 3.1L, 3.4L (similar engine architecture) and 3.5L, 3.9L engines that are from a new series of 60 degree V6 with aluminum heads and VVT. Most if not all of the 60 degree V6 motors came in FWD configurations but can be converted to RWD by turning the intake 180 degrees and some other small tweaks.

60DegreeV6.com - Site News is the source for all things GM 60 Degree V6
 

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... Most if not all of the 60 degree V6 motors came in FWD configurations but can be converted to RWD by turning the intake 180 degrees and some other small tweaks.
You might want to open the hoods on 84-95 camaro's or 82ish-93 s-10 trucks for a few
RWD 2.8L-3.4 60 degree engines.
 

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I said most if not all. I am fully aware of the RWD 2.8s and 3.4s. I have one of each in my garage. You are more likely to run into FWD versions of the 2.8s and 3.4s in sedans and minivans in junk yards etc. ALL 3.5s and 3.9s are FWD. I stand by my statement.

That is why I posted the 60degreeV6.com site because there are many permutations. I have neither the time nor the inclination to list all of them.
 

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There were no 3.8L 0r 4.3L 60 degree V6 engines- those are all 90 degree V6 engines but are two different families. There is now a 3.9L 60 degree V6 with Variable valve timing etc that is used in the Pontiac G6.

60DegreeV6.com - Site News is the source for all things GM 60 Degree V6
Sorry, ment to say 3.9L but the statement is correct, there were no 3.8-4.3L engines in the 60 degree flavor per say.

For a list of engines and bellhousings go here:

GM Bellhousing Bolt Patterns

I believe this thread pertains to installing an engine in a GT. Does it fit? Yes I have a 1972 GT with a built 3.8L in my garage. Is it easy to install the engine in the bay? No requires that you have lots of knowledge, money and patience. You have to modify both sides of the engine bay, you need to beef up the frame rails, modify the steering rod, and the list goes on.

I particularly would not convert the '69 GT since it is a rare car.
 

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69 opel gt
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Discussion Starter #11
So i should try in find a v6 60degree motor or will this motor be fine and make my opel be fast?
 

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There were no 3.8L 0r 4.3L 60 degree V6 engines- those are all 90 degree V6 engines but are two different families. There is now a 3.9L 60 degree V6 with Variable valve timing etc that is used in the Pontiac G6.

The 60 degree V6 came in 2.8L, 3.1L, 3.4L (similar engine architecture) and 3.5L, 3.9L engines that are from a new series of 60 degree V6 with aluminum heads and VVT. Most if not all of the 60 degree V6 motors came in FWD configurations but can be converted to RWD by turning the intake 180 degrees and some other small tweaks.

60DegreeV6.com - Site News is the source for all things GM 60 Degree V6
True, but that is a DOHC VVT 'Opel' engine, a horse of a whole different color, and was available as a 3.5, 3.6 and 3.9 in various 2009 Pontiac models, so probably also in other GM models. The 3.6 engine - G6-GXP (FWD), G8-STD (RWD) - is a 'direct injection' engine producing more than 250hp/250lbf NA . . . about 30 more than the 'port-injected' 3.9!
 

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Hey Otto
My service info is saying 08 G6 rpo code LY7 261hp/250lb.
We all know that there tuned some what on the conservative side.
If they're anything like the fords, first thing is to delete the imrc's and with a small
amount of tweaking get another 15-30 hp.
 

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True, but that is a DOHC VVT 'Opel' engine, a horse of a whole different color, and was available as a 3.5, 3.6 and 3.9 in various 2009 Pontiac models, so probably also in other GM models. The 3.6 engine - G6-GXP (FWD), G8-STD (RWD) - is a 'direct injection' engine producing more than 250hp/250lbf NA . . . about 30 more than the 'port-injected' 3.9!
Otto,

Not completely true.
There were 3.5 and 3.9 pushrod engines with VVT- the LZE (3.5L) and LZ9 (3.9) part of the GM "High Value" engine line. The MGB guys have come up with a lot of parts for converting these motors to RWD along with cam phaser lock-outs etc.

GM High Value engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I drove a Malibu in CA with the 3.9L and was very impressed. Perhaps it had something to do with driving at sea-level (as opposed to 5K+ feet here) but it was a nice motor.

I have a non VVT 3500 sitting in my garage as we speak (along with a RWD 3.4 and a 2.8)

-Nathan
 

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True, but that is a DOHC VVT 'Opel' engine, a horse of a whole different color, and was available as a 3.5, 3.6 and 3.9 in various 2009 Pontiac models, so probably also in other GM models. The 3.6 engine - G6-GXP (FWD), G8-STD (RWD) - is a 'direct injection' engine producing more than 250hp/250lbf NA . . . about 30 more than the 'port-injected' 3.9!
I think those Opel based motors may be more the same family as the 2.5L and 3.0L DOHC motors used in the Vectra (Saab 9-5 here) and Catera/CTS. Those motors are 72 degree motors and share nothing in common with the US 60 or 90 degree motors. They have a totally different bolt pattern on the engine as well, with the starter mounted high instead of along the oil pan.

Of course with a little work the Catera bell housing will fit on our Opel automatic transmissions, so there might be some swap potential.....
 

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All this nit picking over this degree or that.... If the motor fits, it doesn't compromise your weight ratio, you get the performance and handling you want.... and you leave the other cars in your rear view mirror..... Then go for it! :yup:
 

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Interesting..the LY7 3.6 also found its way into the Saturn Vue.
Humm 4 valve dohc VVT wins hands down in my book over a push rod motor. IMO
 

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I hear you but I'm not sure it would be worth all of the hassle to try and stuff those DOHC heads between the fenders of a GT.

There is not much to give between the LZ9 and the LY7 in terms of power.

-Nathan
 
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